The Double-edged Sword

[Episkopos]

Greetings fellow forum members.

Here is a study and a meditation about the nature of God's word....together with a deeper look at what signifies the dual nature of our calling in Christ.

The sword, for our purposes will be seen as a spiritual weapon. Not as a weapon that kills, as in obliterates, but rather as a means to "cut-off" people from a place of holiness.

The "edge of the sword" in Hebrew is the "MOUTH" of the sword.

In the OT...when describing the victories of Israel in the natural world...we see that this is done by the "mouth" of the sword. When it describes a loss to other nations there is curiously no mention of the word "mouth"...it is simply stated "by the sword."

This is an important point to understanding how the word "sword" is used...especially in regards to prophecy.

In the OT, we only ever hear of a single edged sword in regards to natural warfare. We see that the double edged sword is meant for spiritual things....

Prov. 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.

Here, the strange woman is a play on words that hides the true meaning...being "strange fire"....or false teaching.

So then the purpose of false teaching is to cut us off from God's holy presence.

 

[Episkopos]

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Why is the word of God like a double-edged sword?

The word of God cuts two ways....or we could say...BOTH ways. What we say and do comes back on us.

In the same way that Jesus reduced the commandments to 2 main directives to love God and love others...the word of God also makes this distinction. So we could say the the double-edged sword has a cut in the natural AND a cut in the spiritual worlds. The word of God (the sword) discerns both loves...or the lack thereof.

A person who walks in holiness walks in both loves...actually a higher love...so then the sword has nothing to cut. A holy person is not only immune from the cut of the sword of God...he can actually wield it.

If we don't live by the word of God...and everything that proceeds from the mouth of God, then the "edge" or "mouth" of the sword does it's work on us. In this life, we submit ourselves to this work. On judgment day the sword will do it's work on all men. Those who have not submitted to the cut of the sword will themselves be cut off from God's presence.

 

[Episkopos]

What of the dual nature of the word of God and our calling in Christ?

We are to walk in two realms at the same time. Walking in the Spirit is a dual walk...in two realms...simultaneously. Those who walk in both realms will appreciate the words of the Lord...and the sword that has the power to either bring us into the presence of God or cut us off from His presence.

The sword of God cuts two ways. The saint is to be a cut above, so to speak!

One cut is a righteousness cut, and the other is a holiness cut. One is a natural realm cut...and the other a spiritual realm cut. One cut is about love for others...and the other the love of God.

Submitting ourselves to the word of God is to submit to God's scrutiny...His inspection...His judgment...His visitation. God uses His sword as a very skillful surgeon who cuts out the fleshly nature from us....and divides even between what is of us and what is of Him. And this is done for our sakes so that we are able to stand back from committing sins of iniquity. God's word convicts us of sin...and a submitting to the Lord and His operation cuts off the cancers within us.

But the sword is also a weapon of judgment (in the way we see judgment....since judgment is actually a good thing...although we normally see judgment from only the negative aspect).

I am going to be specific here...so specific that I know few will be ABLE to agree. (But I will write this for those who are interested in pursuing this further.)

The double edged sword cuts two ways...Those who love others but not the Lord....will be cut off from God's holy presence (since they already are so) and inhabit the nations in eternity. These are the righteous.

They (who say they) love God but not others...will be cut off from both the presence of God and the habitation of the nations. These will wander in the wilderness forever.

They who love God AND others...are holiness to the Lord and will reign with Christ....and wield the sword of God.

 

[Episkopos]

God has upped the ante, so to speak...He always gives us MORE than we ask of think!

What was once a judgment on just this temporal world has taken on a new depth....so that we will now be judged according to a much higher standard who have received grace (or who have claimed to have received grace).

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

His voice...His mouth...is the edge (mouth) of the sword. (Mouth and edge are the same word in Hebrew).

So as God has upped the ante in grace...so too in judgment.

We are responsible to love others...one edge of the sword...AND...we are responsible to love God...the other edge of the sword...making 2 edges.

 

[lforrest]

Hmm, I was thinking about this today. When do you suppose soul is divided from spirit?

 

[Episkopos]

Hmm, I was thinking about this today. When do you suppose soul is divided from spirit?

I think the division is between our will and His will. Our desires and His. Our understanding...and His.

We need to discern IOW what is coming from us and what is coming from God. That's how I see this. The word is there to help us with discerning what is coming through our spirits (the still small voice) ...and what is just us.

When do we see this division come to pass? I think when we let the word speak for itself without adding anything. When we come as a teachable child to God. When we pray that God would open our eyes, hearts, and minds.

In short...when we wait on the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

The bible is very clear in many ways. But there is a lot to be found by digging deeper into the word.God also loves to hide things in His word for seekers to find. There is a huge value to diligently seeking the things of God.

The hidden things bring clarity to aspects of the truth that seem rather obscure. A case in point is what follows.

Zech. 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.


8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.


9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Here we see that 1/3 of God's people shall be refined....to be saints. The other two thirds are dealt with by the sword...but not just any sword.

There is a hidden message in the text... in the statement that says...

"two parts therein shall be cut off and die"

In the Hebrew this reads like this...
פִּי-שְׁנַיִם בָּהּ, יִכָּרְתוּ יִגְוָעוּ


It says...The mouth of two is in her...shall you be cut off...and you will be expired (breathed out)

Now remember that the edge of the sword is actually the "mouth" of the sword. So then God is speaking to His people. The other two thirds have been cut off (from holiness) ....and "breathed out." This is very similar to when Jesus says to the Laodiceans.."I will spit you out of My mouth."

Truly the truth is as a double-edged (mouthed) sword.

 

[Episkopos]

So then the sword of the Lord divides His people into three distinct groups.

These are...


Called but not chosen: the guests, the saved of the nations.

Called and chosen but not faithful: The filthy, the rejected ones (into outer darkness)

The called, chosen, and faithful: the saints.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, I was thinking about this today. When do you suppose soul is divided from spirit?

I think the division is between our will and His will. Our desires and His. Our understanding...and His.

We need to discern IOW what is coming from us and what is coming from God. That's how I see this. The word is there to help us with discerning what is coming through our spirits (the still small voice) ...and what is just us.

When do we see this division come to pass? I think when we let the word speak for itself without adding anything. When we come as a teachable child to God. When we pray that God would open our eyes, hearts, and minds.

In short...when we wait on the Lord.

that is when soul is divided from spirit iyo?

 

[Episkopos]

that is when soul is divided from spirit iyo?

At the cross. When we are crucified with Him....

 

[bbyrd009]

At the cross. When we are crucified with Him....

yet this seems to be at odds with "...and the spirit goes back to God, Who gave it" at the very least, so imo we have prolly different defs of soul and spirit, both

 

[Taken]

The Double Edged Sword ~

Agree, not a fine honed steel blade....

But rather the Sharp and Swift Word of God with Power and Authority.

Inanutshell ~ This Double Edge Sword has Specific Intent......Which IS DIVISION.

The Division IS Specific TO ALL things the Lord has Created and Made.

Celestrials, and their estate;
Terrestrials, and their estate;

We are informed; God has divided from the beginning, before mankind.

We are informed; Jesus came to divide.
Luke 12:51

We are informed the Sword has two sides, inasmuch a the Lord has declared there Are Two sides;

Those With Him or Against Him.
Matt 12:50

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Hmm, I was thinking about this today. When do you suppose soul is divided from spirit?

The soul and spirit are distinct (not divided, since they are connected) from conception. The soul is the person (who is very much alive) and includes the heart, the mind, and the will, but the spirit is dead, because of Adam's disobedience. The spirit must be brought to life (*quickened*) by the Holy Spirit when a person is regenerated.

 

[Episkopos]

yet this seems to be at odds with "...and the spirit goes back to God, Who gave it" at the very least, so imo we have prolly different defs of soul and spirit, both

The spirit always goes back to God. We are a soul. For those who aren't sure of the difference...I have a thread called..."Against Gnosticism"

 

[bbyrd009]

The spirit always goes back to God. We are a soul. For those who aren't sure of the difference...I have a thread called..."Against Gnosticism"

ya tks but what i am really tryna get right now is how that can be true and also this can be true,

At the cross. When we are crucified with Him....

if you would pls ty

 

[Episkopos]

ya tks but what i am really tryna get right now is how that can be true and also this can be true,
if you would pls ty

We are a soul, with a body and spirit. When we are quickened by the Spirit..our spirit comes to life. We now have access to God. He can speak to us in our spirits.

The power of the flesh is dealt with at the cross....but there is one more operation that is necessary...that of our own selves. Now the flesh (power) SEEMS to be us....but it isn't. It is a power that seeks to make us independent...and self-reliance. But there is also just WHO we really are.

When we come to God there is a new power. But it is possible to become proud...in a spiritual way. Call it spiritual pride. This is from an immaturity on our part. This is the part of us (the soul) that needs to be humble and surrendered to God.

So then the soul must be conformed to Christ...whose presence we have access to through our spirits. The circumcision of the heart tears down the wall inside our hearts so that His presence floods our hearts. Then we walk in His perfect love.

It gets a little technical, I suppose. But we need to keep things in their rightful place.

So then the power of the flesh is dealt with at the cross...making us come out of bondage. Like the Israelites coming out of Egypt.

But we still need to be weaned of the cares and attractions of this world... in our souls. This is like the walk in the wilderness.

Yet we still have to enter into the promised land. This is the division between soul and spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet we still have to enter into the promised land. This is the division between soul and spirit.

ok, i don't think so, srsly doubt it even, but ty

 

[Episkopos]

ok, i don't think so, srsly doubt it even, but ty

Doubting is ok....but what is the basis of your doubt? Doubtfulness for no reason is a lack of reasoning.

Are you unable to reason or so you have a reason to doubt?

 

[lforrest]

We are a soul, with a body and spirit. When we are quickened by the Spirit..our spirit comes to life. We now have access to God. He can speak to us in our spirits.

Agreed. Although I don't fully understand the details of the process. Our dead spirit is born again of the Spirit. This happens at the cross when it is resurrected with him.

But before the dead spirit can go to the cross, it needs to be severed from the soul. This is accomplished by the Word, by leading us to repentance as part of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[bbyrd009]

Doubting is ok....but what is the basis of your doubt? Doubtfulness for no reason is a lack of reasoning.

Are you unable to reason or so you have a reason to doubt?

i doubt that is the division between soul and spirit bc it does not seem to be presented in Scripture this way, and imo you will have terminology issues when other Scripture is introduced prolly

so i would ask what animates the walking dead in this perspective?
(why do they still get rain, etc)