The Double-edged Sword

[Episkopos]

Agreed. Although I don't fully understand the details of the process. Our dead spirit is born again of the Spirit. This happens at the cross when it is resurrected with him.

Yes. We are regenerated because of the resurrection of Jesus through the operation of God. We have a new link up with God...and a vast potential for growth through the "Christ in us."

But before the dead spirit can go to the cross, it needs to be severed from the soul. This is accomplished by the Word, by leading us to repentance as part of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Becoming a new creation is but the beginning of the long process of being saved entirely in our souls. It is like Joshua having to conquer the promised land. There are still giants there to overcome.

So I draw a distinction between the work of Jesus at the cross...together with His resurrection...AND our being crucified with Him. The first gets us out of Egypt (bondage) and moving through the wilderness. But then there is a further work of the cross within us...whereby we are fitted with His cross so that even the soul is weaned from this world. This is the ongoing work of sanctification.

So we are first redeemed unto the Lord....then brought into the desert to begin the process of being sanctified. THEN we enter into the land (the spiritual realm). Once there there is spiritual warfare to be undertaken in a full sanctification. As we fight the bigger battles we ourselves are fully purified and sanctified to the Lord.

So then as long as we are not fully sanctified...the battle is still within us. We are still in the wilderness.

But once we cross over into the land...the fight is taken to the enemy...and the Lord equips us for HIS fight...outside of ourselves. And in so doing we become fully sanctified. From then on it is rewards from God for all eternity. A truly glorious undertaking, albeit a very difficult one. But we can encourage one another in this.

When we are fighting the Lord's battle..we are wielding the sword of the Lord.

 

[bbyrd009]

But before the dead spirit can go to the cross, it needs to be severed from the soul.

do you have any kind of Witness for this forrest, i'm trying to grasp this "spirit severed from soul" thing if you would, ty
i'm just noticing a distinct lack of Scripture here

 

[Episkopos]

i doubt that is the division between soul and spirit bc it does not seem to be presented in Scripture this way, and imo you will have terminology issues when other Scripture is introduced prolly

so i would ask what animates the walking dead in this perspective?
(why do they still get rain, etc)

The natural man walks on this earth like that's all there is. No connection to God. So then the spiritually dead still have one kind of life.

But in the Hebrew, the human life is plural. You have maybe heard the Hebrew toast...L'Chayim"...this means to lives! (more than one life)

An animal has one form of life...as do people who are dead spiritually. That is why Jesus calls such people...dogs, or wolves...or other such animals.

The second form of life is a spiritual life. So then a regenerated Christian has the restored life that makes life...on 2 levels. But it is only as one walks in the Spirit that one actually experiences both kinds of life.

 

[bbyrd009]

The natural man walks on this earth like that's all there is. No connection to God. So then the spiritually dead still have one kind of life.

But in the Hebrew, the human life is plural. You have maybe heard the Hebrew toast...L'Chayim"...this means to lives! (more than one life)

An animal has one form of life...as do people who are dead spiritually. That is why Jesus calls such people...dogs, or wolves...or other such animals.

The second form of life is a spiritual life. So then a regenerated Christian has the restored life that makes life...on 2 levels. But it is only as one walks in the Spirit that one actually experiences both kinds of life.

so now there are two kinds of life, not one, and sheep and doves are not being considered here either, seems to me.

i mean don't get me wrong if you perceive some value in this cool, but...a Scriptural argument would be better imo, and ps i notice you passed on the last one when i Quoted it, too?

 

[Episkopos]

so now there are two kinds of life, not one, and sheep and doves are not being considered here either, seems to me.

i mean don't get me wrong if you perceive some value in this cool, but...a Scriptural argument would be better imo, and ps i notice you passed on the last one when i Quoted it, too?

There is the natural life...and the spiritual life. Add the 2 together and that makes the Hebrew "Chayim"...or...lives.

When Adam sinned....he lost his other life....the life in the Spirit. So he saw himself naked for the first time. He saw then as an animal sees...without the glory of the Lord in His eyes.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is the natural life...and the spiritual life. Add the 2 together and that makes the Hebrew "Chayim"...or...lives.

well, that is your opinion, right, i mean i still am not getting any Scripture or even replies to my pertinent Qs, see.

So he saw himself naked for the first time. He saw then as an animal sees

the problem might be apparent right here, obv animals do not perceive themselves as naked, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

so, the impression i get right now is that a wheel is being reinvented
hardly the worst thing in the world ok

 

[lforrest]

do you have any kind of Witness for this forrest, i'm trying to grasp this "spirit severed from soul" thing if you would, ty
i'm just noticing a distinct lack of Scripture here

Hebrews 4:12
Galatians 2:20
1 Peter 2:24
1 Peter 3:21
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Colossians 2:12-13
Romans 6:4-5

 

[bbyrd009]

Hebrews 4:12

so we get a hit here maybe, but imo "joints and marrow" are even tossed in to clarify the concept so--imo--that what Epi is suggesting will not be the takeaway.

Now this is just an argument ok, i don't know, but my impression is that the severing is being made too literal

1 Thessalonians 5:23

might easily be read to be refuting the point too imo; may your spirit soul body be preserved entire?

the rest of them i don't see a connection, not saying it isn't there, but imo "renewed spirit" is less likely to encounter problems at other Scripture

 

[bbyrd009]

The natural man walks on this earth like that's all there is. No connection to God. So then the spiritually dead still have one kind of life.

i'd like to suggest that this guy really does not exist, at least in the fashion that we like to believe. Or he exists, but we cannot really ID this guy like we think we can, like we do

 

[Episkopos]

i'd like to suggest that this guy really does not exist, at least in the fashion that we like to believe. Or he exists, but we cannot really ID this guy like we think we can, like we do

The power of suggestion...hmmm. Do you ever read the bible?

 

[bbyrd009]

The power of suggestion...hmmm. Do you ever read the bible?

now how am i sposed to take that Epi

 

[Episkopos]

now how am i sposed to take that Epi

How much of what you think and do is informed by the word...vs...how much are you just doing from your own ideas and such?

Paul does say that the things of the Spirit are foolishness to the natural mind, after all.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Why is the word of God like a double-edged sword? The word of God cuts two ways... In the same way that Jesus reduced the commandments to 2 main directives to love God and love others...

Your premise doesn't really resonate with me here, Episkopos. I get no witness about it. Two-edged swords were different than single-edge swords because they could pierce through things as opposed to just hacking away at them from the outside. Hence the words, "sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

The meaning is that it has the capacity to pierce straight to men's hearts.

 

[bbyrd009]

How much of what you think and do is informed by the word...vs...how much are you just doing from your own ideas and such?

and the guy suggesting "severed spirits" rather than regenerated ones and not offering me any Scripture and avoiding pertinent questions to boot is asking me this?

And ps the Bible is not Word, all you are doing is demonstrating that you have never heard Word ok; once you hear Word you don't conflate the Two any more

 

[bbyrd009]

is there like a full moon or something? i mean wth already

HA! apparently there is lol

 

[VictoryinJesus]

suggesting "severed spirits" rather than regenerated ones and not offering me any Scripture and avoiding pertinent questions to boot is asking me this?

Regenerated ones!

 

[Episkopos]

Your premise doesn't really resonate with me here, Episkopos. I get no witness about it. Two-edged swords were different than single-edge swords because they could pierce through things as opposed to just hacking away at them from the outside. Hence the words, "sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

The meaning is that it has the capacity to pierce straight to men's hearts.

The sharpest swords are single edged actually. The Japanese Katana is among the sharpest ever...and it is single edged.

I am suggesting that the 2 edges represent the dual aspect of the word of God. The sharpness is the effectiveness of the word.

 

[Episkopos]

and the guy suggesting "severed spirits" rather than regenerated ones and not offering me any Scripture and avoiding pertinent questions to boot is asking me this?

And ps the Bible is not Word, all you are doing is demonstrating that you have never heard Word ok; once you hear Word you don't conflate the Two any more

I am speaking to you as someone who offers biblical support for what is said. And you respond as someone whose opinion alone would claim to outweigh any scriptures provided.

Maybe if you were clearer in your communication? I don't always get what you are talking about. A little bit of clarity would be great.

Just putting that out there.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am speaking to you as someone who offers biblical support for what is said. And you respond as someone whose opinion alone would claim to outweigh any scriptures provided.

Maybe if you were clearer in your communication? I don't always get what you are talking about. A little bit of clarity would be great.

Just putting that out there.

i have a gif site that can put a halo over your pitcher, if that is what you were going for there