According to John Calvin, these are the ones that God predestined beforehand of those who will be saved form hell. And everyone Else will go there. Jesus said all that the Father has given me will came to me, and whoever cames to me I will in no way turn away from me. So then who are the ones that will go to hell? But those who reject the Lord Jesus, if that were not so then what would be the need for Christ to have died on the cross if it was not to save everyone who will believe on Him, if God had already predestined a group of people for salvation ahead of time. You tell me if you can thanks.
The Elect Of God Who Are They?
- Thread starter rdventen
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There are many forms of the Elect Doctrine, All broke, all wrong. We are not pupets, or animals. We are made in the exact image as God, and have a choice. Even, a lower class spirit had a choice, and Satan made a bad one.
Jesus Is Lord.
Jesus Is Lord.
John Calvin was and idiot ever read who he really was in court documents?
a murdering fool with a god complex you either adhered to his doctrine or died His T.U.L.I.P. theroy is a crock.
a murdering fool with a god complex you either adhered to his doctrine or died His T.U.L.I.P. theroy is a crock.
John Calvin was a Frenchman but that is as close as I could come to calling him an idiot. Barring this unfortunate accident of birth Calvin is without doubt one of the giants of theology.
I assume your accusation of murder is a reference to the execution of Servetus as a heretic. If you believe that 'heretic' is not the correct term for Servetus then I could conclude you also reject the doctrine of 'Trinity'.
LOL well you can call him a giant if you chose
and if you call anyone who disagrees with your doctrine a heritic than so be it
he terrioized people into agreeing with him he was a tyrant and hated by many many ... his doctrine is false ...and no I do not reject the trinity ... I reject TULIP doctrine and John Calvin ..
I'll try give you the short version but its a an indepth subject
Total Depravity this is the belief by those who embrace Calvinism, one thing: God has always been a God who provides choices. For example,
Deuteronomy 30:19 says, "...I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
After reading this verse, it becomes apparent that mankind has the ability to make the proper choice with respect to salvation.
Even after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, Genesis 3:22 described them as follows:
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, etc."
Genesis 3:22 reveals that, after Adam and Eve sinned, they knew both good and evil. And Deuteronomy 30:19 indicates that mankind still had the ability to choose either life or death.
This proves one thing: even though mankind is considered spiritually depraved, this doesn't necessarily mean that we are totally incapable of making the correct choice with respect to our own personal salvation.
Keeping this in your mind, look at Calvinism's misconception of mankind's total depravity:
According to them, mankind's spiritual downfall prevents everyone and anyone from making the proper choice regarding salvation. They believe that it is impossible for us to come to God on our own. However, this position seems to be in clear contradiction to the Scriptures.
Once again, Deuteronomy 30:19 provides the evidence because, if man was totally incapable of making the correct decision to choose life, why would God say to choose? It doesn't make any sense, does it? In fact without choice we are just puppets playing out some game for no reason at all..
It all begins with God. He has instilled a conscience in every single one of us. Based on our consciences, we make the choice. Since God has foreknowledge, He just happens to know the decisions we will make before we make them. It's that simple!
According to Calvinism, God has unconditionally or arbitrarily elected those to be saved before the foundation of the world solely on the basis of the counsel of His will, not taking anyone's accountability into consideration.
As a result, no matter what anyone does, if God didnt Elect them before hand all the rest are pre-destined to damnation.
This view is not only without merit, but also quite ludicrous. It takes away Grace and gives it a qualification not stated in scripture. According to Calvinism, as far as God is concerned, the rest can burn in hell...and God doesn't care!
This doctrinal positions insult God’s very nature and character to the highest possible degree, portraying Him as a sadistic monster.
.......................................................
P.S, do not get me wrong I do believe there is a number of pre destined Elect ..I just do not believe no matter how faithful a servant you try to be if your not predestined your of no use to God so your damned to hell anyway... If that were the case there would just simply be no reason to be here God would have chosen his favorites and ended it long ago. We would not need grace.
I am finding it hard to understand what the question is here?
So i will answer the topic title.
The Elect are all those who accept the Messiah Jesus as their Lord and Redeemer.
All Praise The Qancient Of Days
Ok first and formost folks i need to stress that this is a non-denominational site. Secondly calvin was just a man with theories similar to other christian philosiphers/church leaders. I base my view of the elect on scripture.
Matthew 24:24 i have not did my research on John calvin but the bible warns us of false prophets that like to pretend to be christian but really deceive many.
Mark 13:27 scripture says that god is going to gather his elect from the earth
Romans 8:33 that passage makes it pretty clear that no person can touch gods elect
Colossians 3:12 These are the qualities of gods elect
1st Timothy 5:21 now heres the key part in the verse nothing with partiality. That blatantly means dont play favorites among denominations or among what men say and dont say because a good 99% of the time its not based from scripture.
God bless
Matthew 24:24 i have not did my research on John calvin but the bible warns us of false prophets that like to pretend to be christian but really deceive many.
Mark 13:27 scripture says that god is going to gather his elect from the earth
Romans 8:33 that passage makes it pretty clear that no person can touch gods elect
Colossians 3:12 These are the qualities of gods elect
1st Timothy 5:21 now heres the key part in the verse nothing with partiality. That blatantly means dont play favorites among denominations or among what men say and dont say because a good 99% of the time its not based from scripture.
God bless
Ok first and formost folks i need to stress that this is a non-denominational site. Secondly calvin was just a man with theories similar to other christian philosiphers/church leaders. I base my view of the elect on scripture.
Matthew 24:24 i have not did my research on John calvin but the bible warns us of false prophets that like to pretend to be christian but really deceive many.
Mark 13:27 scripture says that god is going to gather his elect from the earth
Romans 8:33 that passage makes it pretty clear that no person can touch gods elect
Colossians 3:12 These are the qualities of gods elect
1st Timothy 5:21 now heres the key part in the verse nothing with partiality. That blatantly means dont play favorites among denominations or among what men say and dont say because a good 99% of the time its not based from scripture.
God bless
Please Tell me who do you believe that the Elect are?
I think we are actually in very close agreement. There are a lot of claims from detractors of Calvinism that his theology takes away any role for the individual in reaching a saving relationship with the Lord. As you said, the person just becomes a puppet whose actions, and beliefs are totally directed by God's will.
These hyper-calvinism claims however misrepresent what Calvin actually taught. The role of the individual and personal choice are absolutely crucial to salvation. The most well known verse of the Bible and those verses following are very clear:
[sup]16[/sup]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [sup]17[/sup]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. [sup]18[/sup]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:16-18
John 3:16-18
The individual must choose to believe. Free will is paramount - No strings attached
Well, WE HAVE NEVER TALKED ABOUT THE ELECT DOCTRINE BEFORE...............................WOW, I am learning so much..............
It's just a matter of not understanding English is all..............
Whosoever, means whosoever.......................That is everone.
Elect= Someone Chosen by God. Thayer, Refered to as Christian.
"For God so loved the World...........That is the whole world chosen."
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (whole world again......God choose us.)
many are called, few chosen. Umm.. some called but never came to the place of obeiedience of being chosen..........
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. (Not God doing it, but WE who do not do the word, deceive ourselves.)
If you know Jesus, Then you are part of the body of Christ, and each part has something to do. God has made a plan for everyone on Earth before we were born. There is no such thing as someone sitting on the sidelines just overcoming, each part is important.
and I am bored...................... I guess I am done learning.
Jesus Is Lord.
It's just a matter of not understanding English is all..............
Whosoever, means whosoever.......................That is everone.
Elect= Someone Chosen by God. Thayer, Refered to as Christian.
"For God so loved the World...........That is the whole world chosen."
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (whole world again......God choose us.)
many are called, few chosen. Umm.. some called but never came to the place of obeiedience of being chosen..........
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. (Not God doing it, but WE who do not do the word, deceive ourselves.)
If you know Jesus, Then you are part of the body of Christ, and each part has something to do. God has made a plan for everyone on Earth before we were born. There is no such thing as someone sitting on the sidelines just overcoming, each part is important.
and I am bored...................... I guess I am done learning.
Jesus Is Lord.
On Election.
[font="Verdana][size="2"]This is one of the most difficult of truths to understand and believe concerning the operations of God our Father. The arguments and disagreements come from primarily embracing notions and traditions, instead of what God has said on the matter. And He has said much.[/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]A study of the Word will show that the chosen, or elect(KJV) of God are composed of both the Jews of the Old and New Covenant, and those who believe on Paul's evangel of grace and faith, the Body of Christ. They are defined and described fully.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]I would point out that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. If we allow ourselves to indulge in reasoning and discecting what He has said, instead of “hearing” with the eyes of our heart, we will remain in darkness.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]The chief indictment that leads to judgment and destruction is found in Romans 1:[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]was darkened.Ro 1:21 [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana]It is important to understand what brings upon a darkened and foolish heart. The unwillingness to see God as God, the Supreme One over all things. When we permit ourselves to esteem our thoughts as inspired as much as God's own words, we walk in error and become vain in our imaginations. [/font][/color]
[left][size="2"][/size][/left]
[font="Verdana][i][color="#000000"][What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/color][sup] [/sup]Ro 9:20-22[/i][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]If we interpret properly, it is evidenced that God, the Creator, formed man according to His own purpose. To deny this is to refuse God His rightful place as The Potter. It also shows that God has, according to His own counsel, made one vessel different from another, with one being made for destruction, and the other mercy. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]I have found that the common link in failing to understand this truth has been the false teaching of eternal destruction. The Scriptures do not support such a teaching, and while judgment and reconciliation are spoken of frequently, they are typically sidelined over the notion that the Greek Writings contain such a concept as eternal, which they do not. It is emotionally wrenching to ponder an “everlasting” separation and torment caused by a loving God Who gave His own life for our redemption. It is irreconcilable with His attributes.[/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]I would venture to say that most, if not all, of those who cannot embrace election and predesignation are of the mindset that the Scriptures teach the false doctrine of eternal damnation. This is not to their fault. It is the traditional stance of orthodoxy and the fruit of a malicious spirit that desires to rob God of His glory as the Redeemer of all mankind, especially of them which believe. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]Election by God, chosen is more suitable for interpretation of the Greek word “ekletos”, is taught and mentioned not less than 20 times in the Holy Writings. It is an example of how God is God, and we are not. It is to His Glory to redeem all mankind in the way that He knows will benefit everyone. To deny election and designation by His Hand is to refuse to glorify God, as God, and become amenable to the determination of God that such unbelief will achieve a vain and darkened heart. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]fivesense[/color][/font]
[/size][/color]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]This is one of the most difficult of truths to understand and believe concerning the operations of God our Father. The arguments and disagreements come from primarily embracing notions and traditions, instead of what God has said on the matter. And He has said much.[/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]A study of the Word will show that the chosen, or elect(KJV) of God are composed of both the Jews of the Old and New Covenant, and those who believe on Paul's evangel of grace and faith, the Body of Christ. They are defined and described fully.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]I would point out that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. If we allow ourselves to indulge in reasoning and discecting what He has said, instead of “hearing” with the eyes of our heart, we will remain in darkness.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]The chief indictment that leads to judgment and destruction is found in Romans 1:[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]was darkened.Ro 1:21 [/size][/font]
[font="Verdana]It is important to understand what brings upon a darkened and foolish heart. The unwillingness to see God as God, the Supreme One over all things. When we permit ourselves to esteem our thoughts as inspired as much as God's own words, we walk in error and become vain in our imaginations. [/font][/color]
[left][size="2"][/size][/left]
[font="Verdana][i][color="#000000"]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
[/i][/font]
[font="Verdana][i][color="#000000"]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/i][/font][font="Verdana][i][color="#000000"][What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/color][sup] [/sup]Ro 9:20-22[/i][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]If we interpret properly, it is evidenced that God, the Creator, formed man according to His own purpose. To deny this is to refuse God His rightful place as The Potter. It also shows that God has, according to His own counsel, made one vessel different from another, with one being made for destruction, and the other mercy. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]I have found that the common link in failing to understand this truth has been the false teaching of eternal destruction. The Scriptures do not support such a teaching, and while judgment and reconciliation are spoken of frequently, they are typically sidelined over the notion that the Greek Writings contain such a concept as eternal, which they do not. It is emotionally wrenching to ponder an “everlasting” separation and torment caused by a loving God Who gave His own life for our redemption. It is irreconcilable with His attributes.[/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]I would venture to say that most, if not all, of those who cannot embrace election and predesignation are of the mindset that the Scriptures teach the false doctrine of eternal damnation. This is not to their fault. It is the traditional stance of orthodoxy and the fruit of a malicious spirit that desires to rob God of His glory as the Redeemer of all mankind, especially of them which believe. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]Election by God, chosen is more suitable for interpretation of the Greek word “ekletos”, is taught and mentioned not less than 20 times in the Holy Writings. It is an example of how God is God, and we are not. It is to His Glory to redeem all mankind in the way that He knows will benefit everyone. To deny election and designation by His Hand is to refuse to glorify God, as God, and become amenable to the determination of God that such unbelief will achieve a vain and darkened heart. [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#000000"]fivesense[/color][/font]
[/size][/color]
Do you hear what you're saying, you're contradicing yoursalf over and over again.
I got lost in God setting up people to fail.................Fivesense used the Pharaoh fitted as a vessel for destruction, but missed the meaning of his own scripture.
God never designed anyone to fail........People choose to fail.
That vessel fitted for destruction, had been given chance after chance after chance, and God will judge. It's not God's fault, and blaming God for people's failure is pretty Bold. Just blame God!!! Not my fault.............. Ya, right..............
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Who has to purge themselves???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is in English folks.....
Now if your a vessel that is getting sized up for a dose of wrath, instead of being dumb, like Pharaoh (Who God did set up as King, and bless) Change your vessel of wrath fitting ways. Don't Blame God........... That is just dumb.
Jesus Is Lord.
God never designed anyone to fail........People choose to fail.
That vessel fitted for destruction, had been given chance after chance after chance, and God will judge. It's not God's fault, and blaming God for people's failure is pretty Bold. Just blame God!!! Not my fault.............. Ya, right..............
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Who has to purge themselves???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is in English folks.....
Now if your a vessel that is getting sized up for a dose of wrath, instead of being dumb, like Pharaoh (Who God did set up as King, and bless) Change your vessel of wrath fitting ways. Don't Blame God........... That is just dumb.
Jesus Is Lord.
Only god knows my freind only god knows. You can think of the elect by refering to the parable of the wheat and the tares exept the elect are the ones who god chooses for a purpose because god knows that the elect would never fail him.
[sup]26[/sup]for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. [sup]27[/sup]For as many of you as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ. [sup]28[/sup]There is neither Jew nor Greek. there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [sup]29[/sup]and if you are Christ's, then you are Abrahams's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Galatians 3:26-29
Galatians 3:26-29
[font="tahoma][size="2"]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Ahhhh, so salvation is not from a God that is sovereign?[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Calvinism- Christ came to save only some.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Arminianism- Christ came to save all but fails and only some will be saved.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Scripture- For God has imprisoned all people in their own disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. Rom.11:32[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Ahhhh, so salvation is not from a God that is sovereign?[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Calvinism- Christ came to save only some.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Arminianism- Christ came to save all but fails and only some will be saved.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Scripture- For God has imprisoned all people in their own disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. Rom.11:32[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
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