could have mercy on all. Not will have mercy on all.
Gods mercy is open to all men. But each individual must take the invitation and reach out and embrace it.
No ones a zombie even if they desperately want to be one.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
The Elect Of God Who Are They?
- Thread starter rdventen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
could have mercy on all. Not will have mercy on all.
Gods mercy is open to all men. But each individual must take the invitation and reach out and embrace it.
No ones a zombie even if they desperately want to be one.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
So it seems you believe that God's grace is subject to man's will. Have you looked at this scripture in the Greek? It might help you to consider what the Greek word eleeo means.
If you notice, those that believe the Election Doctrine (Calvinism or a watered down version) are not filled with the Holy Spirit, Do not speak in tongues, and do not know God personally, or even heard from God that much. He is my Father, He is good, and he does not play favorites. What he done for one, he will do for you..
Jesus Is Lord.
Jesus Is Lord.
If I have been predestined to die one day
I will still go on living each day as though I will not die
If I am predestined to die of starvation
I will still eat every day
If I am predestined to be saved
I did not know it until I was saved
When I was saved
I thought it was something I had done
The Creator knows the end from the beginning.
He knows who his elect are from the beginning.
John Calvin grasped this fairly well
Most of us do not.
I will still go on living each day as though I will not die
If I am predestined to die of starvation
I will still eat every day
If I am predestined to be saved
I did not know it until I was saved
When I was saved
I thought it was something I had done
The Creator knows the end from the beginning.
He knows who his elect are from the beginning.
John Calvin grasped this fairly well
Most of us do not.
AV Ex 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
AV Ex 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
he LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:
AV Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
AV Ex 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
AV Ex 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
AV Ex 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
AV Dt 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as [appeareth] this day.
AV Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, [and] hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants'sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
AV Jn 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
I may be in error in your estimation, but it is the Word of God that has final authority, not us.
fivesense
Ro 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Might is supplied, not original. The grammar suggests opposites. Since He did "this", He will do "that"
AV Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
It is very important to consider this passage without prejudice, and pride.
AV 1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Even today, today, on this very site, I see reproach being displayed towards those who truly believe this declaration.
I suppose the most significant thing that disturbs me is the type of Deity that is being characterized. Capricious, malevolent, and unmerciful if need be, based upon the failure of incompetant and miserable mankind to perform an act of the flesh, as if anyone has ever been able to do so. An entire nation, Israel couldn't produce a single example of "free to choose the Lord", yet the rest of us are to somehow do the impossible. He has concluded that none seek Him, none. It is the truth.
No man comes to me except the Father draw him.
Flies in the face of the philosophy of free will, doesn't it.
fivesense
I agree God's Word is all Authority.............
That is why I must do something with the rest of the scripture, like Pharaoh hardened his own heart, which you conveniently missed.
Don't compare us to those that could care less about what God said. If your not a doer of the Word, the scripture tells us we deceive our own selves. God is not the one that gets us confused. Pharaoh never did serve God, and was given lots of chances.
Your not looking at the Words Ability to shut the ears of people if they refuse light. It's never God's Will that anyone be confused or now receive the knowledge of the truth...... Lets not blame God.
Martin W.
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Psa 34:12 What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good?
Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
cmon Martin, you normally do better than this.... What are we going to do with all these scriptures now?? Just say God predestined you to keep your tongue and live long.....?? Think man................
Jesus Is Lord.
That is why I must do something with the rest of the scripture, like Pharaoh hardened his own heart, which you conveniently missed.
Don't compare us to those that could care less about what God said. If your not a doer of the Word, the scripture tells us we deceive our own selves. God is not the one that gets us confused. Pharaoh never did serve God, and was given lots of chances.
Your not looking at the Words Ability to shut the ears of people if they refuse light. It's never God's Will that anyone be confused or now receive the knowledge of the truth...... Lets not blame God.
Martin W.
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Psa 34:12 What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good?
Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
cmon Martin, you normally do better than this.... What are we going to do with all these scriptures now?? Just say God predestined you to keep your tongue and live long.....?? Think man................
Jesus Is Lord.
If God through predestination has chose to predetermine beforehand who will be saved and who will not be saved even before that person has even been created, for that person to go to Heaven, and on the other hand those persons to go to Hell, can you tell me why then did God send His own Son into the world to die and to be raised again for the sins of the whole world if it were just for some of the world? Because if that is so then those who were the Elect of God would have not needed for Gods Son to even go to the cross, if God had already chosen who will be saved and who would not be saved, don't you think that God would see the foolishness of it all to put His Son though all the pain and suffering, for something that would not change anything for anyone because He had already chose those that he wanted to go to Heaven and to go to Hell.
PS. What kind of a foolish and perverted God do you think we believe in
In the Calvinist version of the gospel, all that matters is election to salvation. If you are elect to salvation. If you are elect to salvation, you will be made a believer. If you are not among the elect (or if you are in the reprobate caste), there is no power of God to save you. Paul kept it simple when he spoke to the believers in Ephesus: “You also trusted [Christ], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Eph. 1:13). If the sealing of the Spirit comes after faith, it is difficult to imagine that regeneration comes before faith.
The apostle Paul further declared, “Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Rom. 10:13). He then asked several very important questions that speak to the heart of this issue: “How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?” (Rom. 10:14–15).
Paul answered these questions with the words: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!” (Rom. 10:15). In answering the most important “how” question with regard to our present concern, Paul said, “So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.” (Rom. 10:17).
If Calvinism is true, Paul should have said, “How shall we believe unless we are born again?” Although Calvinist says that faith comes by regeneration, Paul said that:
· Faith comes by hearing.
· Hearing comes by the Word of God.
· The Word of God comes when someone proclaims it.
· Someone proclaims the Word of God when they are sent to do so.
It follows that those who call upon the name of the Lord (and are thereby saved) call upon Him in faith. To call upon Him in faith is to believe the gospel that has been preached. In short, believing the gospel is calling upon the name of Lord. It is that simple. Not so according to Calvin and Calvinism. They teach that for many, if not most, people getting saved not only is not simple, it is impossible. When White defends the Calvinist doctrine of salvation, therefore, he is also defending an eternally rigged system. Pay close attention to what John Calvin said:
How it is that the fall of Adam involves so many nations with their infant children in eternal death without remedy unless that it so seemed meet to God?
The decree, I admit, is, dreadful; and yet it is impossible to deny that God foreknew what the end of man was to be before he made him, and foreknew, because He had so ordained by his decree…God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it.[sup]2[/sup]
Mike, is there really anything edifying here? I would hope to have seen a better disposition than what you have exhibited here. Labeling and castigating others who do not agree with you is something one does to incite others to evil.
It is one thing to intelligently disagree with someone, it is quite a different thing to malign and tinker in the slanderer's domain.
Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
fivesense
fivesense
FiveSense........................
I meant no Slander toward anyone, I assumed everyone here was filled with the Holy Spirit and knew God.
I also made an observation, that those that believe in some elect Doctrine are also against speaking in Tongues, and Gods will to heal everyone. I have been doing this for awhile now. I simply put up my observations.
You see Fivesense, This is the Group you hear say God is Mysterious in all his ways..... You just never know what God is going to do. Only someone you don't personally know, could you say this about. God may want you saved, God may not want you saved, you just never know.
I know God, and know his will, Things I don't understand are normally because I need to get myself in line, it has nothing to do with God not wanting to show me. Now, I did not say anything wrong about anyone, What I said is correct.
All this Elect stuff is really just a "Not My FAult' Doctrine........... Not my fault I am poor, not my fault I am sick, not my fault I am going to hell, it's not my fault.
yet, even looking at scripture we see a different picture, count the number of the whosoever. Count the number of the word all. Umm...
Even in Pharaoh's case, how the heck can we compare the Children of God, to someone that could care less about God, though God was longsuffering in dealing with him.
FiveSense, you give scriptures, but deal with all of them........ Just don't accuse someone of being Dr. Evil. If you can't deal with them, then admit your theory is busted. Like in Myth busters. (Good show.)
Ok, so Pharaoh was a vessel fitted for destruction.....................Pharaoh hardened his heart, God did it. Which is it? Deal with both!!!
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Now compare the rest of the scriptures.............If your a busted vessel, and God gave you one talent to work with, and someone five, then YOU purge yourself.......... and get fixed, to be worthy of the five........... as it is written, who is faithful in little will be given more.
deal with the scriptures Fivesense, or at least be humble enough to admit you can't............. Do that before accusing anyone of evil.
Jesus Is Lord.
I meant no Slander toward anyone, I assumed everyone here was filled with the Holy Spirit and knew God.
I also made an observation, that those that believe in some elect Doctrine are also against speaking in Tongues, and Gods will to heal everyone. I have been doing this for awhile now. I simply put up my observations.
You see Fivesense, This is the Group you hear say God is Mysterious in all his ways..... You just never know what God is going to do. Only someone you don't personally know, could you say this about. God may want you saved, God may not want you saved, you just never know.
I know God, and know his will, Things I don't understand are normally because I need to get myself in line, it has nothing to do with God not wanting to show me. Now, I did not say anything wrong about anyone, What I said is correct.
All this Elect stuff is really just a "Not My FAult' Doctrine........... Not my fault I am poor, not my fault I am sick, not my fault I am going to hell, it's not my fault.
yet, even looking at scripture we see a different picture, count the number of the whosoever. Count the number of the word all. Umm...
Even in Pharaoh's case, how the heck can we compare the Children of God, to someone that could care less about God, though God was longsuffering in dealing with him.
FiveSense, you give scriptures, but deal with all of them........ Just don't accuse someone of being Dr. Evil. If you can't deal with them, then admit your theory is busted. Like in Myth busters. (Good show.)
Ok, so Pharaoh was a vessel fitted for destruction.....................Pharaoh hardened his heart, God did it. Which is it? Deal with both!!!
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Now compare the rest of the scriptures.............If your a busted vessel, and God gave you one talent to work with, and someone five, then YOU purge yourself.......... and get fixed, to be worthy of the five........... as it is written, who is faithful in little will be given more.
deal with the scriptures Fivesense, or at least be humble enough to admit you can't............. Do that before accusing anyone of evil.
Jesus Is Lord.
Very good point Mike and I will go further in stating that concerning reconciliation, what He has done for one He has done for all, and there are many scriptures that plainly support it.
Mike I think you have overlooked some scriptures.
God did harden Pharaoh's heart
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exod. 9:12
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I havehardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: Exod. 10:1
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
Well JerryJohnson, I would like to know to and what else they believe.
Jesus said no man comes unless the father draws them......
Compare spiritual with spiritual. Line upon line.
God magnified his Word above his own name.
The Word was with God, the word was God.
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, or the Word being God, hears God drawing them.
It sounds like what the copy and Paste was saying..........
Jesus Is Lord.
Jesus said no man comes unless the father draws them......
Compare spiritual with spiritual. Line upon line.
God magnified his Word above his own name.
The Word was with God, the word was God.
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, or the Word being God, hears God drawing them.
It sounds like what the copy and Paste was saying..........
Jesus Is Lord.
Even the title of thread is wrong Calvanism is listed as a one of the most common false religions it does not claim election for everyone exactly the oppisite it claims Predestination for the few ...The rest go to hell ...
Calvanisim teaches even if you are the worst sinner in the world its ok if your predestined you will be saved maybe that why he thought he could comitt murder and create terror and it was OK
Calvanism is a false religion ....And John Calvin a false prophet ..
Yes there is a certain predestined Elect and there are many many more of the nation and peoples who will over come by choice and free will
freewill and predestintion do work together. Its God who speaks of Predestination and God who speaks of making choices of our free will .........
Calvin didnt invent anything he Just preverted it and made a new religion out of it he called his doctrine called the TULIP Doctrine ... Calvin studied St Augustine in depth who by the way was the first to change the teachings about who was responsable for Christs death ...
chaning it from the servants of Satan who infiltrated the priest hood by order of King Herod ...to the average Jew ..another Words it was Augustine who was basically the father of Anti Semitism in many ways.
Calvin's Book Supercedes the Bible
Calvin's famous letter to King Francis I was dated August 23, 1535. It served as a prologue to his book, Institutes of the Christian Religion, the first edition of which was written in March 1536, not in French but in Latin. Calvin's apology for lecturing the king was displayed as placards posted all over the realm denouncing the Protestants as rebels. King Francis I did not read these pages, but if he had done so he would have discovered in them a plea not for toleration, which Calvin utterly scorned, but for doing away with Catholicism in favor of the new gospel. "There could be only one true Church; therefore, kings ought to make an utter end of popery," said the young theologian. The second edition of Calvin's Institutes was written in 1539; the first French translation in 1541; the final in Latin, as revised by its author, in 1559; but that in common use, dated 1560, has additions by his disciples.
We know little of Calvin's previous activities, but because of a war between King Charles V and King Francis I, he settled his family affairs and reached Bale by way of Geneva in July, 1536. He persuaded two of his brothers and two sisters to accept the Reformed views he had adopted and took them with him. At Geneva the Swiss preacher, Fare, then looking for help with his propaganda, besought Calvin with such vehemence to stay and teach his theologies that, as Calvin himself relates, he was terrified into submission. As a student, reclusive and new to public responsibilities, he may well have hesitated before plunging into the troubled waters of Geneva, then at their stormiest period.
Calvin had not introduced the legislative articles of Geneva; however, it was mainly by his influence that in January, 1537, the articles were approved which insisted on communion four times a year, set spies on delinquents, established a moral censorship, and punished the unruly with excommunication. There was to be a children's catechism, which he drew up. The articles caused a dispute, and the city became divided into "jurants" who swore an oath to the articles and "nonjurors" who would not accept them. Questions had arisen with Berne concerning the points of major dispute, but Calvin made the claim in Lausanne for the freedom of Geneva. Discourse ensued in Geneva, where the opposition became more obstinate. In 1538 the council exiled Farel, Calvin, and the blind evangelist, Couraud from Geneva.
Calvin complained of his poverty and ill health, but these did not prevent him from marrying Idelette de Bure, the widow of an Anabaptist whom he had converted. Nothing more is known of this lady except that she bore him a son who died almost at birth in 1542, and that her own death took place in 1549.
Calvin's Reign of Terror
After some negotiation, Ami Perrin, commissioner for Geneva, persuaded Calvin to return. He did so, though unwillingly, on September 13, 1541. His entry was modest. Geneva was a church-city-state of 15,000 people, and the church constitution now recognized "pastors, doctors, elders and deacons," but the supreme power was given to the magistrate, John Calvin. In November 1552, the Council declared Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin's pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet's book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch. Gruet's death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec -- moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary. Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva. The iron yoke could not be shaken off. In 1555, under Ami Perrin, a revolt was attempted. No blood was shed, but Perrin lost the day, and Calvin's theocracy triumphed. John Calvin had secured his grip on Geneva by defeating the very man who had invited him there, Ami Perrin, commissioner of Geneva.
Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva, because that is what his theology teaches.
Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, was born in Villanova in 1511. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart. He was Calvin's longtime friend in their earlier resistance against the Roman Catholic Church. Servetus, while living in Vienne (historic city in southeastern France), angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic Authorities on April 4 but escaped on April 7, 1553. He traveled to Geneva where he attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on August 13. Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin's theology. The thirty-eight official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus was correct in challenging Calvin's false teaching about infant baptism for salvation, but he was heretical in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method. Other Protestant churches throughout Switzerland advised Calvin that Servetus be condemned but not executed. Calvin ignored their pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. John Calvin insisted that his men use green wood for the fire because it burned slower. Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible. Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus. The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus' face as he screamed in agony.
John Calvin celebrated and bragged of his killing of Servetus. Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment, as written by Calvin earlier, was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge. Truly John Calvin is burning in Hell for his heresy, blasphemy of God and murder of many.
Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be incarcerated twice at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had thirty-four (34) women burned at the stake after accusing them of being witches who caused a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545. The number of people murdered by John Calvin has been a dispute -- not the fact that he murdered them. Calvinists reject the references describing John Calvin's reign of terror because they worship him. John Calvin's actions were very paganistic like his mentor, Saint Augustine. Jesus and all of the Apostles would have abhorred and condemned these blatant mass murders.
Puritanism - Written and researched by Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewska, B.F.A.
"Calvin and Farel returned on September 13, 1541 and re-established their theocracy. Between 1542-1546, they banished seventy-six (76) and fifty-eight (58) executions took place, including thirty-four (34) women, who were burned at the stake for spreading the plague by magical means."
Calvanisim teaches even if you are the worst sinner in the world its ok if your predestined you will be saved maybe that why he thought he could comitt murder and create terror and it was OK
Calvanism is a false religion ....And John Calvin a false prophet ..
Yes there is a certain predestined Elect and there are many many more of the nation and peoples who will over come by choice and free will
freewill and predestintion do work together. Its God who speaks of Predestination and God who speaks of making choices of our free will .........
Calvin didnt invent anything he Just preverted it and made a new religion out of it he called his doctrine called the TULIP Doctrine ... Calvin studied St Augustine in depth who by the way was the first to change the teachings about who was responsable for Christs death ...
chaning it from the servants of Satan who infiltrated the priest hood by order of King Herod ...to the average Jew ..another Words it was Augustine who was basically the father of Anti Semitism in many ways.
Calvin's Book Supercedes the Bible
Calvin's famous letter to King Francis I was dated August 23, 1535. It served as a prologue to his book, Institutes of the Christian Religion, the first edition of which was written in March 1536, not in French but in Latin. Calvin's apology for lecturing the king was displayed as placards posted all over the realm denouncing the Protestants as rebels. King Francis I did not read these pages, but if he had done so he would have discovered in them a plea not for toleration, which Calvin utterly scorned, but for doing away with Catholicism in favor of the new gospel. "There could be only one true Church; therefore, kings ought to make an utter end of popery," said the young theologian. The second edition of Calvin's Institutes was written in 1539; the first French translation in 1541; the final in Latin, as revised by its author, in 1559; but that in common use, dated 1560, has additions by his disciples.
We know little of Calvin's previous activities, but because of a war between King Charles V and King Francis I, he settled his family affairs and reached Bale by way of Geneva in July, 1536. He persuaded two of his brothers and two sisters to accept the Reformed views he had adopted and took them with him. At Geneva the Swiss preacher, Fare, then looking for help with his propaganda, besought Calvin with such vehemence to stay and teach his theologies that, as Calvin himself relates, he was terrified into submission. As a student, reclusive and new to public responsibilities, he may well have hesitated before plunging into the troubled waters of Geneva, then at their stormiest period.
Calvin had not introduced the legislative articles of Geneva; however, it was mainly by his influence that in January, 1537, the articles were approved which insisted on communion four times a year, set spies on delinquents, established a moral censorship, and punished the unruly with excommunication. There was to be a children's catechism, which he drew up. The articles caused a dispute, and the city became divided into "jurants" who swore an oath to the articles and "nonjurors" who would not accept them. Questions had arisen with Berne concerning the points of major dispute, but Calvin made the claim in Lausanne for the freedom of Geneva. Discourse ensued in Geneva, where the opposition became more obstinate. In 1538 the council exiled Farel, Calvin, and the blind evangelist, Couraud from Geneva.
Calvin complained of his poverty and ill health, but these did not prevent him from marrying Idelette de Bure, the widow of an Anabaptist whom he had converted. Nothing more is known of this lady except that she bore him a son who died almost at birth in 1542, and that her own death took place in 1549.
Calvin's Reign of Terror
After some negotiation, Ami Perrin, commissioner for Geneva, persuaded Calvin to return. He did so, though unwillingly, on September 13, 1541. His entry was modest. Geneva was a church-city-state of 15,000 people, and the church constitution now recognized "pastors, doctors, elders and deacons," but the supreme power was given to the magistrate, John Calvin. In November 1552, the Council declared Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin's pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet's book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch. Gruet's death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec -- moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary. Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva. The iron yoke could not be shaken off. In 1555, under Ami Perrin, a revolt was attempted. No blood was shed, but Perrin lost the day, and Calvin's theocracy triumphed. John Calvin had secured his grip on Geneva by defeating the very man who had invited him there, Ami Perrin, commissioner of Geneva.
Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva, because that is what his theology teaches.
Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, was born in Villanova in 1511. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart. He was Calvin's longtime friend in their earlier resistance against the Roman Catholic Church. Servetus, while living in Vienne (historic city in southeastern France), angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic Authorities on April 4 but escaped on April 7, 1553. He traveled to Geneva where he attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on August 13. Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin's theology. The thirty-eight official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus was correct in challenging Calvin's false teaching about infant baptism for salvation, but he was heretical in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method. Other Protestant churches throughout Switzerland advised Calvin that Servetus be condemned but not executed. Calvin ignored their pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. John Calvin insisted that his men use green wood for the fire because it burned slower. Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible. Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus. The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus' face as he screamed in agony.
John Calvin celebrated and bragged of his killing of Servetus. Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment, as written by Calvin earlier, was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge. Truly John Calvin is burning in Hell for his heresy, blasphemy of God and murder of many.
Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be incarcerated twice at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had thirty-four (34) women burned at the stake after accusing them of being witches who caused a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545. The number of people murdered by John Calvin has been a dispute -- not the fact that he murdered them. Calvinists reject the references describing John Calvin's reign of terror because they worship him. John Calvin's actions were very paganistic like his mentor, Saint Augustine. Jesus and all of the Apostles would have abhorred and condemned these blatant mass murders.
Puritanism - Written and researched by Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewska, B.F.A.
"Calvin and Farel returned on September 13, 1541 and re-established their theocracy. Between 1542-1546, they banished seventy-six (76) and fifty-eight (58) executions took place, including thirty-four (34) women, who were burned at the stake for spreading the plague by magical means."
That is great information Christiana!!! but I thought you were the Watered down version of a Calvinist? Or something like that....
Could you explain the watered down version?
Jesus Is Lord.
Could you explain the watered down version?
Jesus Is Lord.
LOL my dearest Brother Mike I am a Bible student I have never endorest Calvanism in any form
I simply believe Gods Word you are the one with a preconceived notion that some how God is being unfair if there is such a thing as predestined Elect ... So you have blocked out what Ive explained to you many times,
A predestined Elect is one whom God has chosen to help bring about his plan of Salvation to his children one might think of Moses or Paul .... They have a destiny set out for them ..its not about them chosing to do Gods will they are destined to do it ..for the good of the all ... This by no means takes away from anyone else who by their own choice chooses to Follow God.
Is it not Gods will that all come to him ?? The fact he has predestined some to carry out his plans so that we may see his plan and come to him doesnt change this fact.
Romans 8: 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
does this say only the predestined are saved ? No whomever believes shall not perish.
Thank you Christiana......... but there is where I am getting hung up on............
I don't find anyplace a Christian should just lay around and let God's "Chosen" do all the work....... we are all part of the body of Christ and best be doing as we have been called to do.
I mean like........ Lets say you go witness to someone and they give their life to Jesus, who in turns gets someone else, in turn knows someone important that gave their life to the lord and changes a world event according to the will of God. Now, that would make you a "Elect" or "Chosen" or just obedient to the Word of God? Am I confusing God's Word from start to End that must come to pass, and those specific people used? Because It really does not make sense, and just one getting to know Jesus is a pretty important event...
Sounds like a doctrine where some of us can just do as we wish, and let the rest of you do the work..........If that is the case, then fine.... Now where is that Remote......
Jesus Is Lord.
I don't find anyplace a Christian should just lay around and let God's "Chosen" do all the work....... we are all part of the body of Christ and best be doing as we have been called to do.
I mean like........ Lets say you go witness to someone and they give their life to Jesus, who in turns gets someone else, in turn knows someone important that gave their life to the lord and changes a world event according to the will of God. Now, that would make you a "Elect" or "Chosen" or just obedient to the Word of God? Am I confusing God's Word from start to End that must come to pass, and those specific people used? Because It really does not make sense, and just one getting to know Jesus is a pretty important event...
Sounds like a doctrine where some of us can just do as we wish, and let the rest of you do the work..........If that is the case, then fine.... Now where is that Remote......
Jesus Is Lord.
That isn't the case at all, God doesn't run a welfare system. Everyone has a job to do. God just knows who He can count on to get the job done because He knows what they did in the First Earth Age. Why did He say this of Jeremiah?
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Why Is Israel His chosen people? They didn't just win the heavenly lottery.
I know you have a tough time with this Mike but we can not deny Gods Word because we dont get it, or think in our human mind it doesnt make sense.
Now I never said God told anyone to sit around and let the Elect do the work .... We are to do as we are told /lead each of us is responsable for our own spiritual condition.
Lets take Moses for example:
The Hebrew people were following the laws as God instructed them everyday they did as they were instructed, but they were still held captave by Pharoh ...
So they prayed and God sent Moses to lead them out of Eygpt ...Moses was predestined to do this.
Now how does that take away from the faithful that prayed ???
Had they not done their part been faithful prayed to God he would not have sent Moses.
The same is true in the End times God will use the Elect to lead the way for the faithful and give testomy that turns the hearts of the confused back to him ... The same way he used Moses.
Now that takes nothing from you it does not mean the Elect will save you if you havent done the right things. You are personally judged on your heart not whether or not God sends a prophet or Elect to deliver a message.
The prophets were chosen,they were Elect .... Only the people that heeded their warnings or listened to their words benifitted.
Does everyone need to be a prophet to be saved ?? No, of course not its the same with the predestined Elect.
They will be prophets of the End times. Is it their work that does this?
NO its by Gods Words spoke through them ..that does the saving here.
Are you going to refuse to listen because God chose to speak through Bob instead of Joe ????
Remember the example I gave you of building a house .... You need the foreman to bring the instuctions from the boss and then direct the crew what needs to be done and when
but the foreman cant do anything his boss whats without his crew he cant build the house alone ....He cant be the Electrician or the plumber..he can only tell them when or where they are needed.
The facts are God says some are predestined Elect its up to you to understand how this fits, not deny it, because you dont like it ..God is fair ..
If your seeing this as unfair its you is misunderstanding something here...
Paul was predestined to preach to the gentiles does that adversly affect you ? Or are you inspired by his Words are you closer to God and can be a better Christian because he was sent to us ??? Paul was just aman like us it was Gods Words spoke through him that does the saving.
I say again your the one seeing this in the negative instead of as God intended a postive thing to help and guide us ...Just as he done all things for our good, sent us prophets and apostels and leaders all for us.
Somehow because he predestined them to do certain things you want to see it in the negative instead of giving thanks to him he sends them.
Similar threads
