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The Elect

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by haanne, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. haanne

    haanne New Member

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    Who are the Elect? The Jews?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Many are those who make it to the End that do not follow Antichrist i.e. take the Mark of the Beast. There will be a great delusion and most of World will follow after Antichrist and his one world system and one world religion. To those you wait till the 7th trump and with stand the time of trouble are of the Elect. Antichrist comes at the 6th trump claiming to be Christ so stay strong in his Word and know the evil one comes first claiming to be Christ.
     
  3. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    God's elect are all those who hear and receive the Gospel [Rom. 1:15-17; 10:13-17; 1 Cor. 1:21-23; 15:1-3; Heb. 4:12; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23-25], those who follow Christ and are commited to the Gospel of free Grace salvation through Christ alone without works. The elect are those who experience conversion and repentance by the power of the Holy Spirit.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    True but There is more too it JM otherwise they would not be singled out what you have described is basically any Christian the Elect are what you have said yes but also the overcomers Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. We see here that the Elect help bring forth judgement to the gentile They are those who will be put on trial by Antichrist and are told not to premeditate what they will say because the Lord will speak through them (this is simluar to what happened on Penecost day)Mark 13:11 Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. If it were possable? This implys that it is not possable to shake the faith of the Elect1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. We also see that the Elect were chosen with the foreknowledge of God
     
  5. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    Yes, I agree. I was just trying to give a simple answer to a simple question.The Canons of Dort, Article 7 Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from their primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, a certain number of persons to redemption in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect and the foundation of salvation. This elect number, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God has decreed to give to Christ to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit; to bestow upon them true faith, justification, and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His Son, finally to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy, and for the praise of the riches of His glorious grace; as it is written: Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved (Eph. 1:4, 5,6). And elsewhere: Whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Rom. 8:30).Article 9 This election was not founded upon foreseen faith and the obedience of faith, holiness, or any other good quality or disposition in man, as the prerequisite, cause, or condition on which it depended; but men are chosen to faith and to the obedience of faith, holiness, etc. Therefore election is the fountain of every saving good, from which proceed faith, holiness, and the other gifts of salvation, and finally eternal life itself, as its fruits and effects, according to the testimony of the apostle: He hath chosen us (not because we were, but) that we should be holy, and without blemish before him in love (Eph. 1:4).
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Oh Im so thrilled I've not had anyone get this before without much explanation I never heard of Dort but I think I like him
     
  7. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    Oh Im so thrilled I've not had anyone get this before without much explanation I never heard of Dort but I think I like him
    You can read them here.
    The Canons of Dort, or Canons of Dordrecht, formally titled The Decision of the Synod of Dort on the Five Main Points of Doctrine in Dispute in the Netherlands, is the judgment of the National Synod held in the Dutch city of Dordrecht in 1618 / 19. At the time, Dordrecht was often referred to in English as Dort.Today, the Canons of Dort form part of the Three Forms of Unity, one of the confessional standards of many of the Reformed churches around the world, including the Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, and North America. Their continued use as a standard still forms an unbridgable problem preventing close cooperation between the followers of Jacob Arminius, the Remonstrants, and Dutch Reformed Churches.These canons are in actuality a judicial decision on the doctrinal points in dispute from the Arminian controversy of that day. Following the death of Arminius (1560-1609), his followers set forth a Remonstrance (published in 1610) in five articles formulating their points of departure from the stricter Calvinism of the Belgic Confession. The Canons are the judgment of the Synod against this Remonstrance. Regardless, Arminian theology later received official acceptance by the State and has since continued in various forms within Protestantism.The Canons were not intended to be a comprehensive explanation of Reformed doctrine, but only an exposition on the five points of doctrine in dispute. These Canons set forth what is often referred to as the Five Points of Calvinism.
    Peace.jm
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    You have to be elected in order to be the elect. Think about that and apply it to Scripture, you'll have your answer.
     
  9. haanne

    haanne New Member

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    So basically God picked some folks to help others through the end . The anti christ will set up his kingdom and The elect are sort of like Gods warriors for that time. So they will help those who are thinking the Devil is Jesus. Life would be so much easier if I could find a church that would teach the deeper truths of the Bible. thanks for the info I so appreciate it!!!!
     
  10. jsarber

    jsarber New Member

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    I agree with Denver. Ephesians 1:3-6Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (haanne;21564)
    So basically God picked some folks to help others through the end . The anti christ will set up his kingdom and The elect are sort of like Gods warriors for that time. So they will help those who are thinking the Devil is Jesus. Life would be so much easier if I could find a church that would teach the deeper truths of the Bible. thanks for the info I so appreciate it!!!!
    yes you got it they are light in the darkness when antchrist is here you will hear so many lies so much spiritual darkness the elect serve as sparks of light to help guide you through the darkness.
     
  12. wingnut

    wingnut New Member

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    (kriss;21745)
    yes you got it they are light in the darkness when antchrist is here you will hear so many lies so much spiritual darkness the elect serve as sparks of light to help guide you through the darkness.
    Really well said.The elect will be examples worthy of following through the end of the age and in the Millennium.
     
  13. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    Thank you all for making that clear.Thank God it does not refer to our politicians!!!!:eek:
     
  14. Mighty Bear

    Mighty Bear New Member

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    If you are really serious on getting elected, then love God and get elected.
     
  15. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    You don't 'get elected' by loving God, you love God because you are elect. There is nothing in the unregenerate man that will cause him to love God, natural man is a God hater.
     
  16. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (J.M.;21331)
    God's elect are all those who hear and receive the Gospel [Rom. 1:15-17; 10:13-17; 1 Cor. 1:21-23; 15:1-3; Heb. 4:12; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23-25], those who follow Christ and are commited to the Gospel of free Grace salvation through Christ alone without works. The elect are those who experience conversion and repentance by the power of the Holy Spirit.
    I believe God has "elected" all to be saved, yet many refuse. A fine quote by a preacher of righteousness over 100 years ago:Foreknowledge and Foreordination.“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” The word “predestinate” is the same as “foreordain,” which is found in the Revised Version. Volumes of speculation have been written about these terms, but a few words are sufficient to set forth the facts. With respect to these, as well as the other attributes of God, it is sufficient for us to know the fact. With the explanation we have nothing to do. It is plainly set forth in the Scriptures that God knows all things. Not only does he know the things that are past, but he sees the future as well. “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” Acts 15:18. “O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off.” Ps. 139:1, 2. Thus God can tell what people even yet unborn will do and say. This does not make God responsible for the evil that they do. Some have foolishly thought it necessary to apologize for the Lord and to relieve him of the charge that if he is omniscient He is responsible for the evil if he does not prevent it, by saying that He could know if he wished, but that he chooses not to know many things. Such a “defense” of God is both foolish and wicked. It assumes that God would be responsible for the evil if he knew it beforehand and did not prevent it, and that in order not to be in a position to prevent it, he deliberately shuts his eyes from it. Thus their “defense” really puts the responsibility for all evil upon God. Not only so, but it limits Him. It makes him like a man. God knows all things, not by study and research as man learns the little he knows, but because he is God. He inhabits eternity. Isa. 57:15. We can not understand how this can be any more than we can understand eternity. We must accept the fact and be not only content, but glad, that God is greater than we. All time, past, present, and future, is the same to Him. It is always “now” with God. The fact that God knew the evil that men would do, even before the foundation of the world, does not make him responsible for it, any more than the fact that a man can see by means of a telescope what a man is doing ten miles distant makes him responsible for that other one's actions. God has from the beginning set before people warnings against sin, and has provided them with all the necessary means for avoiding it; but he can not interfere with man’s right and freedom of choice without depriving him of his manhood and making him the same as a stick. Freedom to do right implies freedom to do wrong. If a man were made so that he could not do wrong, he would have no freedom at all, not even to do right. He would be less than the brutes. There is no virtue in forced obedience, nor would there be any virtue in doing that which is right if it were impossible to do wrong. Moreover, there could be no pleasure or satisfaction in the professed friendship of two persons if one associated with the other just because he could not avoid it. The joy of the Lord in the companionship of his people is that they of their own free-will choose him above all others. And that which is the joy of the Lord is the joy of his people. The very ones who rail against God for not preventing the ills that he foresees since he is all-powerful, would be the very first to charge him with cruelty if he did arbitrarily interfere with their freedom and make them do that which they do not choose. Such a course would make everybody unhappy and discontented. The wisest thing for us to do is to stop trying to fathom the ways of the Almighty, and accept the fact that whatever he does is right. “As for God, his way is perfect.” Ps. 18:30. About Predestination.The text shows that “whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren.” God’s thoughts toward men are thoughts of peace, and not of evil. Jer. 29:11. He ordains peace for us. Isa. 26:12. We read nothing about men being foreordained to destruction; the only thing that God has predestinated is that men should be conformed to the image of his Son. But it is only in Christ that we become conformed to his image. It is in him that we come “unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.” Eph. 4:13. Therefore it is that men are foreordained or predestinated only in Christ. The whole story is told in the following passage of Scripture:— “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ; according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love; having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good-pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.” Everything is in Christ. We receive all spiritual blessings in him; we are chosen in him unto holiness; in him we are predestinated unto the adoption of children; in him we are accepted; and in him we have redemption through his blood. “God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thess. 5:9. That is God’s purpose and foreordination concerning man. Still further, “whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.” Whom did he foreknow? There can be no limit; he must have foreknown all. If there were any exception, then God would not be infinite in knowledge. If he foreknows one person, then he foreknows every person. There has not been a person born into the world whose birth God did not foreknow. “Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight; but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” Therefore, since every person has been known to God even before the foundation of the world, and those whom he foreknew he predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, it follows that God has purposed salvation for every soul that has ever come into the world. His love embraces all, without respect of persons. “Then everybody will be saved, no matter what He does,” some one will say. Not by any means. Remember that the purpose of God is in Christ. It is only in him that we are predestinated. And we are free to choose for ourselves whether we will accept him or not. Man’s will has been forever set free, and God himself will not presume to interfere with it. He holds sacred the choice and will of each individual. He will not carry out His own purpose contrary to man’s will. His will is to give man whatever man decides will best please him. So he sets before man life and death, good and evil, and tells him to choose which he will have. God knows what is best, and has chosen and prepared that for man. He has gone so far as to fix it beyond all possibility of failure, that man shall have that good thing if he chooses it. But the wonderful kindness and courteousness of the great God is seen in this, that He defers in everything to man’s wishes. If man, in his turn, will but defer to God’s wishes, there will be the most delightful and loving companionship between them. Called, Justified, Glorified.“Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” This is completed action. We need not stumble over it, if we will but remember that everything is in Christ. In Christ we have already been blessed with all spiritual blessings. All men are called to that which God has prepared for them, but none are “the called according to his purpose” unless they have made their calling and election sure by submitting to his will. Such ones are predestinated to be saved. Nothing in the universe can hinder the salvation of any soul that accepts and trusts the Lord Jesus Christ. And all such are justified. The death of Christ reconciles us to God. “He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2. His death has secured pardon and life for all. Nothing can keep them from salvation except their own perverse will. Men must take themselves out of the hand of God, in order to be lost. Much more, then, those who accept the sacrifice, are justified. “God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” “And whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Have we not read in the prayer of Christ for his disciples, not only for those who were with him in the garden, but also for all them that should believe on him through their word and therefore for us, “The glory which thou gavest me, I have given them”? Peter said that he was a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. God has left nothing undone. Everything that Christ has we have if we accept him. All that remains is that it should be revealed. “The earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.” When God asks concerning his people, “What could have been done more to {356} my vineyard, that I have not done in it?” who shall presume to say that there is something that he has overlooked?" End Quoteblessings in Christ,Jake
     
  17. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (J.M.;21940)
    You don't 'get elected' by loving God, you love God because you are elect. There is nothing in the unregenerate man that will cause him to love God, natural man is a God hater.
    It is true brother that you don't "get elected" by loving God, there is nothing good in us, yet God has "elected" everyone to be saved, yet many refuse. It's the difference between God's unfailing love for mankind and our "conditional" human love. Jake
     
  18. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    Hi Jake, this isn't directed at you at all and I hope you don't take it personal...I just want to address the quote as it stands in this thread.
    Many believe this…but the question is…is it Biblical?
    Who wrote it?
    From Websters 1828:pREDES'TINATE = To predetermine or foreordain; to appoint or ordain beforehand by an unchangeable purpose.FOREORDA'IN, v.t To ordain or appoint before; to preordain; to predestinate; to predetermine.
    Amen.
    Does God see the future or does God decree what the future will be? I’d say that God knows the future because He decreed it to be so. There is seems to be a deeper inconsistency it the statement that, “God knows all things” and that “God can tell what people even yet unborn will do….” It's almost like God is inactively watching...that would mean at some point God didn’t know all things, rather, He learned them by foreseeing them. This is untrue and it’s not Biblical.
    Agreed.
    Well, we can know a few things about time and eternity…for instance, God doesn’t inhabit time and is unaffected by time as the passage from Isa. 57 teaches. This would mean that God doesn’t foresee future event as we do, one after the other in a succession, but all at once. The divine mind doesn’t learn the “end from the beginning” but declares the end from the beginning. Isa. 46:10
    This statement is freighting. A God who can’t “interfere with man’s right and freedom” really isn’t God. If God can’t interfere with man’s rights and freedoms then we can’t trust the Bible. Man could’ve added anything he wants to the Holy Bible because God wouldn’t interfere with the inspiration process. Sorry folks, that dog don’t hunt. God does whatever He wants [Daniel 4:35], God kills, makes alive, wounds, heals and none can deliver [Deuteronomy 32:39], God does whatever He will and none can question Him [Job 9:12], all things are in the hands of God [Ecclesiastes 9:1],etc. In the book of Exodus we find where God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, only three of those 19 times the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is ascribe to Pharaoh himself, the rest was God effectually hardening his heart. God harden Pharaoh’s heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart, and He harden his heart. God harden Pharaoh’s heart 16 different times we are told.
    There is no Biblical ground for the idea of total libertarian freewill, it’s asserted, not proven. Man is a slave to sin and freely sins, this is clearly taught in Scripture, but even the concept of being a slave to sin [John 8:34] destroys the idea of libertarian freewill, we are children of the devil [John 8:44] until we are given freedom through Christ [John 8:36].
    They would charge God because they are God haters, they are slaves to sin, and there is nothing in them that would allow them to see and understand the goodness of God.
    Agreed.
    Amen.
    One will limit the power claiming Christ died for all yet all are not saved, the other limits the scope, Christ died to save His people and is able to accomplish that goal. The atonement is limited no matter which way you slice it.
    He foreknew the destination of all, yes…but not all are destined for heaven.
    Nice leap in logic! The writer uses passages, phrases and terms we all can agree upon. We all can agree that God knows all, we all can agree with the quote sited above from Hebrews 4, but we can’t draw the same conclusion because it’s not Biblical. God did not predestine all for salvation or all would be saved. For example we find the statements in Mat 27:5 and 18:35 where Judas “…departed, and went and hanged himself,” and “So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you…” We can agree that both are Scriptural passages but if I try to draw a false conclusion using two verses out of there context such as, our heavenly Father will hang us we have to deny the conclusion. Let the context guide our understanding.
    Really? Did these folks have a total libertarian freewill?“Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil,” Prov. 16:4.“A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient; whereunto also they were appointed,” I Peter 2:8.“For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ,” Jude 4.“But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed, railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed,” II Peter 2:12.“For God did put in their heart to do His mind, and to come to one mind, and to give their kingdom unto the beast, until the word of God should be accomplished,” Rev. 17:17.We also see “vessels of wrath” which by the Lord were “fitted unto destruction,” were “endured with much long suffering” in order that He might “show His wrath, and make His power known”; and with these are contrasted the “vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory” in order “that He might make known the riches of His glory” upon them (Rom. 9:22, 23).“God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting,” Rom. 1:28; and the wicked, “after his hardness and impenitent heart treasures up for himself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,” Rom. 2:5.“God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie,” II Thess. 2:11.“Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish; For I work a work in your days, A work which ye shall in no wise believe, if one declare it unto you,” Acts 13:41.“For this cause they could not believe, for that Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and He hardened their heart; Lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, And should turn, And I should heal them,John 12:39, 40.“Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the Devil and his angels,” Matt. 25:41“For judgment came I into this world, that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind,” John 9:39.“I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes,” Matt. 11:25.“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine,” Matt. 7:6.“But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let you pass by him; for Jehovah thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into thy hand, as at this day,” Deut. 2:30.“For it was of Jehovah to harden their hearts, to come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, as Jehovah commanded Moses.” Joshua 11:20.“For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth,” Rom. 9:17(see also Ex. 9:16)====> We can be sure at least one was elected never to come to Christ, the son of perdition in John 17,he was lost for fulfil Scripture."... And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? ...""Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia" (Acts 16:6)
    Wow!If it’s a completed action then unbelievers are justified.
    If it’s a completed action then one doesn’t have to accept or trust the Lord Jesus Christ, it’s illogical and unbiblical.
    Universalism is a nasty doctrine that fools people into thinking they can be saved without any faith, no evidence of faith and no knowledge of the Saviour.
    The meaning of the word propitiation is thusly stated by Webster, “The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious.” If God’s wrath towards sinners has been appeased then not even “their own perverse will” can prevent them from salvation. More non-sense.
    See the word propitiation.
    The “us” in this passage are believers. Christ died for us.
    Peace,jm
     
  19. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (J.M.;22039)
    jm
    Hi J.M. I have read your reply on predestination. Basically the idea is "He loved and died only for a special group known as "the elect." The idea is that God has predestined some people to be saved; and because this is His "sovereign will," not even they can thwart what He has purposed to do. The gospel is good news if you are one of the lucky ones; but the others? Too bad. The very last page of the bible contradicts this distorted view, "The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come" And let him who hears say, 'Come!' And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." "Look to Me, and be saved, all you ends of the earth!" I would have to get off the "end of the earth" not to get that invitation. "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" None of us has come from the planet Mars; it must be that He takes away my sin. There are sixteen first person plural pronouns in Isaiah 53:1-6; each "we" and "us" and "our" must mean everybody, because it's the "we all" who have sinned. May God have mercy on our souls. Jake
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You are misunderstanding all alive now could be of the Elect they are those who will overcome to the End Antichrist(Satan) comes at the 6th trump Christ does not return untill the 7th will you be an overcomer an Elect?Will you wait on the Lord or be taken in by the great delusion that will come on this last Generation and do the work of the beast?? The Elect will be the the ones left at the End when Christ comes the who know who Antichrist is and do not sell out there wont be many because the delusion is so great that the whole world will follow the beast. Why? because he will be claiming to be god he will perform miracles he is a fake christ.
     
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