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The Elect

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by haanne, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    n2 says
    If God already knows all who will be saved
    Yes He does , becuase he is the one who saves..
    what choice do we have
    None, man has no choice at all on wether or not he is saved..
    Had satan not rebelled we would not have been made flesh,
    Says who ? Adam brought sin into the world..
    was so that we could choose who we would follow(satan or God)
    God chooses before the world began in christ..
    Do you think it was easy for Christ to die on the cross?If God knew who would be saved Christ death on that cross would not have needed to be done.
    God planned This death in eternity past, in fact it was the reason why the world was created..
    Let me try an analogy,if you were to have 10 children and you knew before hand that child number 10 would kill the other 9 would you still have child number 10?
    Your anology is insuffcient in describing the wisdom of God..
     
  2. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    savedbygrace57We are on two different levels,as I can see that you are not familar with the world that was,meaning the age before this one.The whole plan of God concerning this age is all about choice,not His but ours.If you don't understand the beginning,you won't understand the end,so I will just leave it at that.
     
  3. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    (n2thelight;23693)
    savedbygrace57We are on two different levels,as I can see that you are not familar with the world that was,meaning the age before this one.The whole plan of God concerning this age is all about choice,not His but ours.If you don't understand the beginning,you won't understand the end,so I will just leave it at that.
    Sure thing, you should not be discussing these things anyway sir, you have no knowledge of the True God, but the god of your own understanding..
     
  4. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    ’TWAS SOV’REIGN MERCY ’Tis not that I did choose thee, For, Lord that could not be; This heart would still refuse thee, Hadst thou not chosen me. Thou from the sin that stained me Hast cleansed and set me free; Of old thou hast ordained me, That I should live to thee. ’Twas sov’reign mercy called me And taught my op’ning mind; The world had else enthralled me, To heav’nly glories blind. My heart owns none before thee, For thy rich grace I thirst; This knowing, if I love thee, Thou must have loved me first. Josiah Conder(1789-1855)
     
  5. PastorChris

    PastorChris New Member

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    Ro 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28 For the Lord will carry out his word on earth quickly and thoroughly." Isa 10:20 In that day the remnant of Israel, the survivors of the house of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel. 21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. 22 Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous. 23 Yahweh, Yahweh Almighty, will carry out the destruction decreed upon the whole land. 24 Therefore, this is what Yahweh, Yahweh Almighty, says: "O my people who live in Zion, do not be afraid of the Assyrians, who beat you with a rod and lift up a club against you, as Egypt did. 25 Very soon my anger against you will end and my wrath will be directed to their destruction." 26 Yahweh Almighty will lash them with a whip, as when he struck down Midian at the rock of Oreb; and he will raise his staff over the waters, as he did in Egypt. 27 In that day their burden will be lifted from your shoulders, their yoke from your neck; the yoke will be broken because you have grown so fat. (Note: Yahweh Almighty will carry out the destruction decreed upon the whole land)Mt 20:1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. 3 "About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, `You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right. 5 'So they went. "He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, `Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing? 7 "`'Because no one has hired us,' they answered. "He said to them, `You also go and work in my vineyard. 8 "'When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, `Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first. 9 "'The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 `These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, `and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day. 13 "'But he answered one of them, `Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous? 16 "'So the last will be first, and the first will be last. For many are called, but few chosen.”(Note: The vineyard:Jn 15:1 "I am the true vine, 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.Jesus is the true vine.Silver:ps 12:6 And the words of Yahweh are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. The word of Yahweh is silver.Job 22:22 Accept instruction from his mouth and lay up his words in your heart. 23 If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored: If you remove wickedness far from your tent. Lay up Yahweh’s words in heart, that is, he who received the word from the mouth of God will be chosen.)Mt 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, `Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet. 5 "'But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 "Then he said to his servants, `The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find. 10 'So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 `Friend,' he asked, `how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless. 13 "Then the king told the attendants, `Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 "'For many are called, but few are chosen."(Note: What is the wedding clothes? Ezr 3:10 When the builders laid the foundation of the temple of Yahweh, the priests in their vestments and with trumpets, and the Levites (the sons of Asaph) with cymbals, took their places to praise Yahweh, as prescribed by David king of Israel. In the vestments and with trumpets:Trumpet:Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.The word of God spoken in the Holy Spirit is the voice of a trumpet; the vestment is put on to be chosen.) Ac 10:40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. (To be seen:2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.)Ac 10:41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."(Note: Witness: Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.") Seeing in the Spirit the proof of the word of God which is the name of Jesus, one is also chosen through Jesus.Jn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, (Note: An inheritance:Eze 44:28 "`I am to be the only inheritance the priests have. You are to give them no possession in Israel; I will be their possession. 1Pe 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (Note:The salvation:ps 3:8 From Yahweh comes deliverance. May your blessing be on your people.) 2Th 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the faith. [The faith: Ro 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey the faith-- 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen. (Through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, believe and obey the faith, and one is chosen.) Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.(Note: Chose us in Christ:2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Christ is ministered by Paul)Ro 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.] Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 1Th 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.(Receive the faith, imitate the Lord, and one is chosen)Please think: how could one be chosen in the doctrines of men? Because you have not worn the vestment; only he who speaks with the mouth the Word of God in the name of Jesus can be chosen.From John Chao's thread Names Written in the Book of Life of the Lamb
     
  6. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    (PastorChris;23965)
    Ro 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28 For the Lord will carry out his word on earth quickly and thoroughly." Isa 10:20 In that day the remnant of Israel, the survivors of the house of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel. 21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. 22 Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous. 23 Yahweh, Yahweh Almighty, will carry out the destruction decreed upon the whole land. 24 Therefore, this is what Yahweh, Yahweh Almighty, says: "O my people who live in Zion, do not be afraid of the Assyrians, who beat you with a rod and lift up a club against you, as Egypt did. 25 Very soon my anger against you will end and my wrath will be directed to their destruction." 26 Yahweh Almighty will lash them with a whip, as when he struck down Midian at the rock of Oreb; and he will raise his staff over the waters, as he did in Egypt. 27 In that day their burden will be lifted from your shoulders, their yoke from your neck; the yoke will be broken because you have grown so fat. (Note: Yahweh Almighty will carry out the destruction decreed upon the whole land)Mt 20:1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. 3 "About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, `You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right. 5 'So they went. "He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, `Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing? 7 "`'Because no one has hired us,' they answered. "He said to them, `You also go and work in my vineyard. 8 "'When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, `Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first. 9 "'The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 `These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, `and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day. 13 "'But he answered one of them, `Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous? 16 "'So the last will be first, and the first will be last. For many are called, but few chosen.”(Note: The vineyard:Jn 15:1 "I am the true vine, 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.Jesus is the true vine.Silver:ps 12:6 And the words of Yahweh are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. The word of Yahweh is silver.Job 22:22 Accept instruction from his mouth and lay up his words in your heart. 23 If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored: If you remove wickedness far from your tent. Lay up Yahweh’s words in heart, that is, he who received the word from the mouth of God will be chosen.)Mt 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, `Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet. 5 "'But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 "Then he said to his servants, `The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find. 10 'So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 `Friend,' he asked, `how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless. 13 "Then the king told the attendants, `Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 "'For many are called, but few are chosen."(Note: What is the wedding clothes? Ezr 3:10 When the builders laid the foundation of the temple of Yahweh, the priests in their vestments and with trumpets, and the Levites (the sons of Asaph) with cymbals, took their places to praise Yahweh, as prescribed by David king of Israel. In the vestments and with trumpets:Trumpet:Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.The word of God spoken in the Holy Spirit is the voice of a trumpet; the vestment is put on to be chosen.) Ac 10:40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. (To be seen:2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.)Ac 10:41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."(Note: Witness: Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.") Seeing in the Spirit the proof of the word of God which is the name of Jesus, one is also chosen through Jesus.Jn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, (Note: An inheritance:Eze 44:28 "`I am to be the only inheritance the priests have. You are to give them no possession in Israel; I will be their possession. 1Pe 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (Note:The salvation:ps 3:8 From Yahweh comes deliverance. May your blessing be on your people.) 2Th 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the faith. [The faith: Ro 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey the faith-- 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen. (Through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, believe and obey the faith, and one is chosen.) Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.(Note: Chose us in Christ:2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Christ is ministered by Paul)Ro 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.] Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 1Th 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.(Receive the faith, imitate the Lord, and one is chosen)Please think: how could one be chosen in the doctrines of men? Because you have not worn the vestment; only he who speaks with the mouth the Word of God in the name of Jesus can be chosen.From John Chao's thread Names Written in the Book of Life of the Lamb
    :eek:
     
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