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The Elect

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by haanne, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (thesuperjag;22865)
    When Satan beguiled Eve... He had sexual intercourse with Eve.Satan first son is Cain.Can I have sex with Satan? Well yes I can, if I want to eat men's doctrine over the Word of God. No thanks, but I rather wait for my Husband Yahshua Christ. For He is faithful wanting to save us. I hate Satan with a passion.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    The question I asked is, Have you ever been beguiled?
     
  2. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (kriss;22874)
    What are you even talking about all I said was Gods word says some are predestined I dont know who they are I never claimed to be one Im just a sinner like everyone else All I said was cain was evil from the beginning the first murder I think you have confused my posts with someone else's or you are completly in the dark as to anything I teach.
    ALL have been predestined for salvation, yet many reject. Are you saying God predestined some for hell? You can't have it both ways. If God predestined none for hell, then what are they predestined for? "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3, 4. The question: Does God want ALL men to be saved and come into the knowledge of truth? Or are you saying that God has predestined some to not come into the knowledge of truth and be saved?And please, if you want to get into the idea of me being in the "dark" and your "personal" attacks on me every once in a while, so be it, but it's much easier doing so when I'm not face to face with you isn't it? Let's be mature christians and state the facts, not personal "digs", for those methods belong not to those who are to "kind, one to another, tenderhearted."
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    No I never said that J.M. did I said All have free will some are predestined to do Gods will God says only the Elect are are predestined to bring about his will it has nothing to do with everyone else nor did I ever say anyone was ever judged to hell again that was J.M. whom I totally disagree with the only one prejudged to hell is Satan you are accussing me of saying what I never said. I am done with this conversation you are obviously misunderstaning and putting words in my mouth others have spoken I have no idea what you think I am saying but it certainly is nothing like you are accusing me of.
     
  4. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    No I never said that J.M. did I said All have free will some are predestined to do Gods will God says only the Elect are are predestined to bring about his will it has nothing to do with everyone else nor did I ever say anyone was ever judged to hell again that was J.M. whom I totally disagree with the only one prejudged to hell is Satan you are accussing me of saying what I never said. I am done with this conversation you are obviously misunderstaning and putting words in my mouth others have spoken I have no idea what you think I am saying but it certainly is nothing like you are accusing me of.
    Where does it say that only the "elect" are predestined for salvation? Remember, salvation is given in three tenses, past, present and future. God has predestined all to be saved, yet "ultimately" only the elect "will" be saved. God states "all" are predestined to be saved, it is man's "choice" to believe the good news.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    IT DOSENT I NEVER SAID IT I DONT BELIEVE THAT I NEVER SAID THAT what part of this do you not understand?The Elect are simply the overcomers Jesus Christ's return. That is called the "fullness of time". In the fullness of time all of God's people will be gathered back to Jesus Christ. And we will all, both those saints in heaven now, and those who will live to see Jesus Christ's return at the seventh trumpet, will be drawn and gathered to Christ. Has God called you to Him? Ephesians 1:11 "In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:"With out God's intercession, Paul would not have been the leader in the Church that he was. When Paul changed from working against God to working for God; He remained the same strength of character; bold and willing to stand against any man, even kings. Paul's mission changed from killing Christians to making Christians. The "inheritance" that we obtain, is in the predestined plan of God. The inheritance is to the chosen, those who were overcomers, and God judged [justified] them then, and predestined them to His service in this age. The inheritance is being the Zadok in the Millennium, and that inheritance is our eternal life. What your full inheritance is will be according to God's predestined plan for you, and how you work to fulfill your part of that service. God is in control, and He controls His election [the elect
     
  6. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (kriss;22883)
    IT DOSENT I NEVER SAID IT I DONT BELIEVE THAT I NEVER SAID THAT what part of this do you not understand?The Elect are simply the overcomers Jesus Christ's return. That is called the "fullness of time". In the fullness of time all of God's people will be gathered back to Jesus Christ. And we will all, both those saints in heaven now, and those who will live to see Jesus Christ's return at the seventh trumpet, will be drawn and gathered to Christ. Has God called you to Him? Ephesians 1:11 "In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:"With out God's intercession, Paul would not have been the leader in the Church that he was. When Paul changed from working against God to working for God; He remained the same strength of character; bold and willing to stand against any man, even kings. Paul's mission changed from killing Christians to making Christians. The "inheritance" that we obtain, is in the predestined plan of God. The inheritance is to the chosen, those who were overcomers, and God judged [justified] them then, and predestined them to His service in this age. The inheritance is being the Zadok in the Millennium, and that inheritance is our eternal life. What your full inheritance is will be according to God's predestined plan for you, and how you work to fulfill your part of that service. God is in control, and He controls His election [the elect
    Kriss, I believe there is great difference between those who are "predestined," ALL, and those who are the "elect," those who will ultimately be saved. God has predestined all to have a plan of full service to Him, yet many will not have it. Did God "control" David, the elect of God, to murder and commit adultery? Nay. God enables and biddens us to follow Him. And yes, it is His "will" that we obtain the inheritance, the human race, why, because He so loved the world.
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (preciousmessage;22875)
    (thesuperjag;22865)
    When Satan beguiled Eve... He had sexual intercourse with Eve. Satan first son is Cain. Can I have sex with Satan? Well yes I can, if I want to eat men's doctrine over the Word of God. No thanks, but I rather wait for my Husband Yahshua Christ. For He is faithful wanting to save us. I hate Satan with a passion. Jag Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    The question I asked is, Have you ever been beguiled?Beguiled as in deceived? By default Yea, cause I use to be an Atheist.Beguiled as in sexual intercourse? Nay!But I refuse to let Lucy to have sexual intercourse with me spiritually. Like I said, But, I rather wait for my Husband to come.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  8. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (kriss;22883)
    IT DOSENT I NEVER SAID IT I DONT BELIEVE THAT I NEVER SAID THAT what part of this do you not understand?The Elect are simply the overcomers Jesus Christ's return. That is called the "fullness of time". In the fullness of time all of God's people will be gathered back to Jesus Christ. And we will all, both those saints in heaven now, and those who will live to see Jesus Christ's return at the seventh trumpet, will be drawn and gathered to Christ. Has God called you to Him? Ephesians 1:11 "In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:"With out God's intercession, Paul would not have been the leader in the Church that he was. When Paul changed from working against God to working for God; He remained the same strength of character; bold and willing to stand against any man, even kings. Paul's mission changed from killing Christians to making Christians. The "inheritance" that we obtain, is in the predestined plan of God. The inheritance is to the chosen, those who were overcomers, and God judged [justified] them then, and predestined them to His service in this age. The inheritance is being the Zadok in the Millennium, and that inheritance is our eternal life. What your full inheritance is will be according to God's predestined plan for you, and how you work to fulfill your part of that service. God is in control, and He controls His election [the elect
    We agree that all have "freedom of will." And we always want to build on a firm foundation, the Rock, Jesus Christ. I believe Christ's objective truth must come before our own subjective experience when sharing the gospel with those who are truly thirsty and hungry. When Christ states in Eph. 1:5, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," I believe He was referring to humanity as a whole.Christ Jesus has predestinated all to be adopted, for that is His will for mankind. All have been "accepted in the beloved." Eph. 1:6. We must remember, it's "IN CHRIST" we have been accepted. There is a great difference between "Christ in you" and "You in Christ." "Christ in you" is the believers experience. "According as He hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world" Eph. 1:4. For ALL things consist IN HIM. Col. 1:17. This is considered objective truth. Calvinists have the idea that only the elect have been predestinated. That makes the cross "limited" to a certain few. This is not some kind of abstract theology, but the difference between the truth of the gospel and untruth. We never want to "limit" God's cross. That would mean a "limited" gospel. For the cross and the gospel are synonymous. 1 Cor. 1:17.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I completly Agree with you on all points
     
  10. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (thesuperjag;22892)
    Beguiled as in deceived? By default Yea, cause I use to be an Atheist.Beguiled as in sexual intercourse? Nay!But I refuse to let Lucy to have sexual intercourse with me spiritually. Like I said, But, I rather wait for my Husband to come.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Thanks Jag, still don't understand the "sex" thing. Although, if you break one commandment you're guilty of breaking all according to the book of James. James 2:10. So I guess no matter how we separate "sins," by breaking one of them, all have been broken, every single one of them. We are all guilty of breaking all of them, no matter how I may slice it and dice it. Even Cain was predestined to be saved, also the Muslims. "Then as the children of God are one in Christ, how does Jesus look upon caste, upon society distinctions, upon the division of man from his fellow man, because of color, race, position, wealth, birth, or attainments? The secret of unity is found in the equality of believers in Christ. The reason for all division, discord, and difference is found in separation from Christ. Christ is the center to which all should be attracted; for the nearer we approach the center, the closer we shall come together in feeling, in sympathy, in love, growing into the character and image of Jesus. With God there is no respect of persons." End Quote. Jake
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    That all falls under free will the gift God gave us all the angels also have free will it is why Satan could choose to rebell, God created him perfect the full pttern he choose to become Evil God can not create evil Nor does he as the Calvinists say predestine one to evil. That a lie of men. Cain also had this free will choice he choose sin and Satan. Cain could have repented and asked Gods mercey, but he instead refused responability and said Am I my brothers keeper? He had no remorse.Thus he of his own free will sealed his fate. As we all will choose our own fate. Christ is the only way.
     
  12. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    kriss says
    That all falls under free will the gift God gave us all the angels also have free will
    Do you believe men are free from the sovereignty of God ?
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Men are free to choose wether they follow God or not We are saved by Grace it is offered to all but we must claim that Grace through our own free willthrough Jesus Christ. Christ is the only way to salvation
     
  14. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (savedbygrace57;22899)
    kriss saysDo you believe men are free from the sovereignty of God ?
    It is a fact Jesus said, “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him”? We are sinners, none seek after God, yet because of His abounding grace, Jesus did say, with reference to His crucifixion, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” John 12:32. Now when we remember that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,” and that it was “by the grace of God” that Jesus tasted “death for every man” (Heb. 2:9), we can see that it is Christ who is drawing all men to Himself.God is Sovereign; He alone has decided all can be saved if they choose. Quote: The Word of God is not divided against itself. Read the passages in which this statement is found (Matt. 20:1-16 and 22:1-14), and it will be apparent that those who are not chosen are those who themselves do not choose to accept the terms of salvation. That is the whole of the matter. Election means choice. The free choice is given to all. “Choose life, that both foul and thy seed may live.” Deut. 30:19. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. Whoever chooses salvation, or, in other words, elects to be saved, is one of the elect. The non-elect are, of course, lost, but it is of their own choice. Of those who are lost, the Spirit of God says, “For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord; they would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.” Prov. 1:29-31. When the Jews at Antioch “spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming,” the apostle said, “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you; but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.” Acts 13:45, 46. They judged themselves unworthy of everlasting life, by refusing to receive it. It was indeed given to them, and they put it away from them. Note that it was all in their own hands; they were made judges in the case. And so it is with all men; each of man determines his own worthiness or unworthiness. Whoever will receive the eternal life, is counted worthy of it. Each man judges of his own fitness, and he elects himself. Surely God could not possibly deal more fairly with mankind. End Quote"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judgeth him in the last day." John 12:47, 48. It is Christ that came to save the world, but many will reject the words that He "came to save the world." The redemption price has been paid by Christ for the human race. 2 Corinthians 5:14-21. He did not "offer" redemption (salvation) but "gave" the gift to humanity. Romans 5:12-18. Jake
     
  15. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    kriss says
    God is Sovereign; He alone has decided all can be saved if they choose.
    Sorry, man does not determination salvation, God does..Jn 15:16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. That contradicts your philosophy sir...Alsops 65Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
     
  16. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    savedbygrace57
    16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. That contradicts your philosophy sir...
    Sorry but you are missing the meaning of this verseTo "ordain" is to set forth with a purpose. It is to be placed in a specific spot. In the Greek text, "Ye have not chosen Me," actually reads, "Not that ye chose Me." Thus it is stating the reverse of the custom of the Jews, in that the disciple is given the right to choose his own master. This is possible because Jesus has placed His disciples, the election, as friends which are part of the decision making, and not as servants or slaves that merely respond to orders given to them. When the elect are confused to what it is that they are to do and pray for, the Holy Spirit intercedes in their lives.Romans 8:26; "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."Romans 8:27; "And He That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."It is because we know not what to pray for, or where we are to fit into the will of God, and His overall plan, that the Holy Spirit makes the prayer that we should be praying, and then leads us into that place, and places the desire in us to fulfill that purpose.When Jesus came to John, He did not ask, John would you like to follow Me? No, He stated, "John , follow me." The elect of God have already been chosen in the age that was, and the Spirit of God has put that desire in the hearts of the elect to respond to the call when it comes. Our Savior loves the "elect" and the "free will" equally, and that is why He gave His life for the very lowest of man. Jesus desires that all people will come to repentance, but many people will not.
     
  17. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    (n2thelight;23621)
    savedbygrace57Sorry but you are missing the meaning of this verseTo "ordain" is to set forth with a purpose. It is to be placed in a specific spot. In the Greek text, "Ye have not chosen Me," actually reads, "Not that ye chose Me." Thus it is stating the reverse of the custom of the Jews, in that the disciple is given the right to choose his own master. This is possible because Jesus has placed His disciples, the election, as friends which are part of the decision making, and not as servants or slaves that merely respond to orders given to them. When the elect are confused to what it is that they are to do and pray for, the Holy Spirit intercedes in their lives.Romans 8:26; "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."Romans 8:27; "And He That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."It is because we know not what to pray for, or where we are to fit into the will of God, and His overall plan, that the Holy Spirit makes the prayer that we should be praying, and then leads us into that place, and places the desire in us to fulfill that purpose.When Jesus came to John, He did not ask, John would you like to follow Me? No, He stated, "John , follow me." The elect of God have already been chosen in the age that was, and the Spirit of God has put that desire in the hearts of the elect to respond to the call when it comes. Our Savior loves the "elect" and the "free will" equally, and that is why He gave His life for the very lowest of man. Jesus desires that all people will come to repentance, but many people will not.
    Sorry for you...no matter what you say God chooses who is saved , and not the other way around, you are promoting humanism...:naughty:
     
  18. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    savedbygrace57
    Sorry for you...no matter what you say God chooses who is saved , and not the other way around, you are promoting humanism...
    This will seem somewhat controversial to some,but I will post it anywayIf God choses all who will be saved that what mean that He already knows who will be,and this I don't believe for the simple fact that this age that we are now living in would have no purpose.In other words Christ would not have had to die for us
     
  19. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    (n2thelight;23648)
    savedbygrace57This will seem somewhat controversial to some,but I will post it anywayIf God choses all who will be saved that what mean that He already knows who will be,and this I don't believe for the simple fact that this age that we are now living in would have no purpose.In other words Christ would not have had to die for us
    What you just posted here makes absolutely no sense at all..:cool:
     
  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    savedbygrace57
    What you just posted here makes absolutely no sense at all
    Let me see if I can say it a little,with a questionIf God already knows all who will be saved,what choice do we have?Had satan not rebelled we would not have been made flesh,the reason we were made flesh was so that we could choose who we would follow(satan or God)The point Im trying to make is this,if God knows all who will be saved,this flesh age we are in now would not had been necessary,for He could have destroyed satan and all who followed him then,at that time,yet He made a plan to get us back to Him(all that would choose)Do you think it was easy for Christ to die on the cross?If God knew who would be saved Christ death on that cross would not have needed to be done.Let me try an analogy,if you were to have 10 children and you knew before hand that child number 10 would kill the other 9 would you still have child number 10?
     
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