The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Taken]

I call that placing your faith in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin.


God is the one who elects. It's a decision. One that he makes not us. And he makes that decision in response to our faith in Christ. Our duty is to 'make sure' that we really do believe and that God really has elected us and made us ready to stand before Jesus at the resurrection to be judged. We do that by testing to see if we are really in the faith. Our ability to do the works of righteousness I posted is the test we need to pass to see if we are really called and elected to salvation.


Identical.

Disagree.

 

[Taken]

Then Peter was wrong to say 'do' these things (vs10) when he described the 'qualities' (vs8) of the Spirit in 2 Peter 1:5-11.

Disagree.

 

[Taken]

You're using a verse about not having the work of saving people into the church to defend an argument about not having personal works of holiness. When you do that you cause Paul to be in direct contradiction of Jesus and John who say you are not saved if you have no works. Why are you ignoring the context of 1 Corinthians 3:8-17 and saying Paul is talking about the works of ones personal life of obedience? All you have to do is read it and see Paul is talking about one's work of building up others into the kingdom of God. You don't have to have those works to be saved when Jesus comes back. But you do have to have works of personal holiness to be saved when Jesus comes back. Because only true believers have those works.

Disagree.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Because the scripture cannot be broken; and Romans 10:13 is an absolute promise; even to the one who never exhibits any works after having been redeemed.

No, because the one who doesn't exhibit works after salvation didn't receive the promise of Romans 10:13.

1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

I think you know John's not talking about sinless perfection. When you get born again your fundamental nature gets changed and your relationship with sin changes.......for the better. If this doesn't happen then the fundamental change in nature didn't happen. You didn't really get born again. That deep change didn't happen.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I say this so that people will not enter into what I call a "works trip mentality"...in which they begin to feel that they are not saved unless they are working hard to maintain their salvation.

The works that we do in Christ ought to be done out of an ease of resting in the Lord...in which there is a labour of love for the other person...but no pressure to keep up the good work in order that the self might be saved.

Such a thing turns the motivation into something devilish...it is rooted in selfishness.

So we should just rip Hebrews 6:11-12 and 2 Peter 1:10-11 from our Bibles? Isn't the real problem that people think those verses mean you work to earn your salvation instead of what they really mean, that you know you are genuinely saved by seeing the life of Christ in you by purposely living in line with the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)? I wish the church would get off this fear of works trip. I think it's misleading a lot of people in the church that need to get born again and making them comfortable in their lost lives and making them think they are saved when they aren't saved at all, as their unchanged lives prove. This is a way more important message than telling people they can't lose their salvation. That means nothing to the person who really isn't saved in the first place.

 

[DaChaser]

Does the Bible say that "the key is to be saved?" I'm always puzzled by this. It seems like a sweeping generalization that is fairly man-made. I thought that the whole duty of man was to fear (respect; love) God and keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Many will, of course, say that we are New Testament Christians, but what does that make the Christians who lived before the New Testament was canonized? Orphans? Strange that Christ Himself learned to be a perfect Example of a Christian by studying the Old Testament.

I believe that we must be saved to have eternal life or vice versa, but I think we put the emphasis on our own security a little too much. I don't find that to be the overall theme of the Bible. The Bible is that which testifies of Jesus (John 5:39). I think an over-emphasis on our own standing with God betrays a kind of spiritual selfishness. Scarce little is reported on these forums about the importance of service to God and others. It sometimes seems that works-a-phobia prevails everywhere in Christendom.

I'm really not accusing anyone, just offering food for thought.

We come into a saving relationship with God by receiving Lord Jesus, being given the Holy Spirit, and then we can live for Him!

 

[justbyfaith]

No, because the one who doesn't exhibit works after salvation didn't receive the promise of Romans 10:13.

1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

I think you know John's not talking about sinless perfection. When you get born again your fundamental nature gets changed and your relationship with sin changes.......for the better. If this doesn't happen then the fundamental change in nature didn't happen. You didn't really get born again. That deep change didn't happen.

It is still not to say that we are saved by the works that we do.

We are saved solo gracia and sola fide...

Being saved, we are regenerated and renewed on the inside so that we become inclined towards doing good works...

But the works don't regenerates and renew us...that is accomplished only by our faith in Jesus.

So we should just rip Hebrews 6:11-12 and 2 Peter 1:10-11 from our Bibles?

Should we just rip out of our Bibles Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9?

I am not contending these things so that I can have an excuse to not be active in my faith.

I am contending for these things because they are sound doctrine.

I believe, also, that if someone knows that they are redeemed, they will be eternally grateful to the Lord for their salvation, and will act accordingly (Luke 7:36-50).

But how can someone know that they are saved if there is always one more work that they have to do in order to obtain or maintain their salvation?

And if there is not always one more work to be done, are you saying that a person can do just one good work and then rest from thereon in?

If that is the case, then I would simply say that calling on the name of the Lord is a work (even that work) and leave it at that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is still not to say that we are saved by the works that we do.

But the works don't regenerates and renew us...that is accomplished only by our faith in Jesus.

Who is saying they do????????

 

[justbyfaith]

Who is saying they do????????

By saying that we are saved by our works you imply that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Should we just rip out of our Bibles Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9?

If you don't have works then you don't have what Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9 says you have. Why aren't you able to understand this? Those verses do not nullify Hebrews 6:11-12 and 2 Peter 1:10-11. Why are you arguing this with me?

 

[farouk]

its like saying I'm only temporarily grateful based on conditions lol...................

and out of the other side of the mouth proclaim I'm eternally grateful

talk about an OXYMORON

It's not a heresy at all; Romans 8.38-39.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

By saying that we are saved by our works you imply that.

Then stop thinking I'm implying works literally, actually pay for salvation. Works only save you in that they are the evidence that shows you to be a righteous person at the resurrection. Even YOU are going to be saved from the lake of fire by your works at the judgment. And it's not because your works paid for safe passage into the kingdom. They save you in that they are the evidence of your faith that Christ will be looking for. You keep clinging to this false hope that somehow a person without works but who supposedly has faith in God is going get to go into the kingdom anyway. Unless you died instantly after confessing faith in Christ you're not going into the kingdom of God without works to prove you have faith in God. That's just the way it is. The church needs to stop lying and changing what the Bible says.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But how can someone know that they are saved if there is always one more work that they have to do in order to obtain or maintain salvation?

Yeah, how can someone say that? Let me know when you hear someone say that. Why do you think the Bible's command to do works to make your calling and election sure means obtaining or maintaining salvation?????

 

[BarneyFife]

Ferris Bueller
No clue what a "works Gospel" is.

Point is-
Justification BY God- (not men), is God determining WHO (OF men) are worthy to Receive Gifts from God.

God IS JUST.

• God Gifts ALL men with Gods Blessings for His Love of mankind.

• God Gifts All men with FAITH for Hearing His Word.

• God Gifts All men with Forgiveness for Repentance.

• God Gifts All men with Salvation of their soul for True Heartful Confession of Belief in God and Christ Jesus.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with a circumcised/New Heart, for Electing The Lord God to BE THEIR God.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with
Gods SEED, (within a man's New Heart), for Electing The Lord God to BE THEIR God.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with
a New Re-Born spirit (truth), IN their New Heart, By Gods SEED (who IS the SEED of God, who IS the Spirit of Truth, who IS Christ, who IS Jesus, who IS Gods Truth, who is Lord, who IS Lord of All Saved souls), for Choosing Christ the Lord Jesus to BE THEIR Lord God.

• God Gifts All men (WITH Saved souls AND quickened spirits) with;
..... Gods Spirit (Truth) (WITHIN) a man
..... Gods Spirit (Power) (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Gift of Faith-FULLNESS (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Glory (UPON) a man.
..... Gods SEAL (UPON) a man.
..... Gods Righteousness (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Promises (TO) a man.
..... Gods Blessings (TO & UPON) a man.
..... Gods Title of "son of God" (TO) a man.

Every single Gift GOD GIVES a man....
IS a Gift God JUSTIFIES a man Worthy TO Receive The Gift .... Gods Gift JUSTIFIED and Gods Gift Given BY God

Every Gift FROM God, (a man IS JUSTIFIED BY God) TO Receive....
Is Clearly Revealed in Scripture (FOR....)
A man....Freely ELECTING TO ACCEPT...
Gods Gifts.

A man WHO IS (saved AND born again) IS PREPARED TO:
... BE, Bodily Raised uncorrupted
...."DO WORKS" that Glorify God.

Again God Himself JUSTIFIES what WORKS (a Saved and Born Again man DOES)......THAT Glorifies God.

A (a Saved and Born Again man)....
WHO Does WORKS (THAT Glorifies God)
......PAY ATTENTION.....
ARE WORKS GOD IN HEAVEN KEEPS TRACK (accounting) OF IN HIS Kingdom, His Books of Records.
Works such a man DOES "THAT" Glorifies God, ARE "Treasures" STORED IN Heaven "FOR" that man who DID the Works to Glorify God.

WHEN the Son of man, (WITH Power), Returns To Earth TO Redeem (claim) men WITH The Seal OF God.... HE BRINGS WITH Him, HIS "REWARDS" ...
"For" Every (Saved and Born Again man,) WHO "HAS Treasures Stored IN Heaven."

God clearly has an ORDER and Way.

Faith is A Gift Given...BY God... For Hearing the Word of God.
Hearing, Receiving Faith...IS NOT ...Confessing Belief.
Faith received unto a man FOR Hearing "IS DEAD FAITH...WITHOUT" the Effort/Work, of a man TO
Open His Mouth and CONFESS True Heartful Belief IN the Lord God.
THAT is James message to men Receiving Faith for hearing...but have Not Confessed Their OWN Belief of WHAT THEY Heard...They Heartful Believe"!.

God JUSTIFIES WHAT He Will give a man, For what a man does.
A man with " Hearing Faith only" IS NOT Justified TO Receive Gods REWARD for Works.

Not complicated IF one follows Gods ORDER and WAY.

Glory to God,
Taken

A masterpiece of wordsmithing; nothing more.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I would simply say that calling on the name of the Lord is a work (even that work) and leave it at that.

Well, good luck with that, because you're going to need it. Dead faith is NO faith.

 

[BarneyFife]

So we should just rip Hebrews 6:11-12 and 2 Peter 1:10-11 from our Bibles? Isn't the real problem that people think those verses mean you work to earn your salvation instead of what they really mean, that you know you are genuinely saved by seeing the life of Christ in you by purposely living in line with the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)? I wish the church would get off this fear of works trip. I think it's misleading a lot of people in the church that need to get born again and making them comfortable in their lost lives and making them think they are saved when they aren't saved at all, as their unchanged lives prove. This is a way more important message than telling people they can't lose their salvation. That means nothing to the person who really isn't saved in the first place.

All you're doing is bullying people by implying they don't believe Scripture because they don't interpret difficult passages the way you do. You're venturing perilously close to trollism.

 

[BarneyFife]

No, because the one who doesn't exhibit works after salvation didn't receive the promise of Romans 10:13.

What a ridiculous statement. You must live inside everyone's head. Most new believers probably aren't even familiar with Romans 10:13.

All of this fancy talk presumes that newly converted persons magically understand the Bible right away. It doesn't seem very reasonable or even rational to me.

 

[BarneyFife]

They save you in that they are the evidence of your faith that Christ will be looking for.

Meaningless fancy talk. Human works either save or they don't. Christ never spoke like this. And the texts that you guys like to beat each other over the head with are from apostles who were addressing specific groups which may or may not have had specific problems. Almost no one takes that into account on these forums. It is called Biblical Theology, which must be examined before one can form a Systematic Theology.

I pray God will save us all from Internet Information Age "experts."

 

[BarneyFife]

If that is the case, then I would simply say that calling on the name of the Lord is a work (even that work) and leave it at that.

Except that it isn't.

What difference does it make, anyway, if it is God Who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure? (Philippians 2:13)

All is of grace.

 

[Taken]

A masterpiece of wordsmithing; nothing more.

Saved Once and Forever- by Gods Power- Expressly Sufficient for me.

Glory to God,
Taken