The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Heyzeus]

Of course I do. I thought your position was otherwise.

Nope - I think James is very inspired - but this has nothing to do with my position.. and everything to do with your conflicting belief .. God is not a flip flopping xenophobic genocidal maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics. .. IMO - but you are welcome to maintain your literalist position.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok so let's just take one:

"but now do ye also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth."

Let's say a person who has been saved for 30 years still sometimes gets angry or speaks in ways he should not. Does this disqualify him for the kingdom?

You're dead meat.

No, seriously. Only you and the people who know you can see whether you're different than what you were before you were born again.

2 Peter 1:8
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure

Ephesians 2:13
13 and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Born again people are growing in righteousness "attaining to the whole measure" of Christ's character. But unsaved people are becoming more and more corrupt and not growing at all in holiness.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed

 

[ChristisGod]

Nope - I think James is very inspired - but this has nothing to do with my position.. and everything to do with your conflicting belief .. God is not a flip flopping xenophobic genocidal maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics. .. IMO - but you are welcome to maintain your literalist position.

thats right you roll the dice and see which books are inspired and which ones are not. ya right.........

 

[Ferris Bueller]

See Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21.

Yep. Kids get it. But us adults don't. What does that tell you about our stupid long winded theologies and what really counts?

Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The term "justify" means "to declare righteous".

Believing, in this verse does not only bring about the declaration of righteousness (justification which is an aspect of salvation); it actually makes the person righteous, in the heart.

Yep. Being justified means to be made righteous by official decree. But it also means to be seen as righteous. The church knows all too well how justified means being made righteous by official decree apart from what you do. But what they don't know is they also have to be seen as righteous, and so justified that way to be saved when Jesus comes back. Because works accompany real faith.

James 2:24
24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Real faith makes real works. That's why the true believer is justified by both faith and works and not by faith alone. If he isn't justified by works too he's showing himself to not be a true believer. He's dead meat at the resurrection. He'll have nothing to show for the faith he says he has but doesn't really have.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is very profound; because it indicates that a man can be righteous in his heart (like Cornelius) and yet not saved (if he believes and yet does not confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus).

Cornelius did not know about a Christ that had not yet been revealed. But look at what he did have....

Acts 10:1-2
a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God.

He had works consistent with one who loves and fears God. He was justified by both his faith and his works. Like Abraham was.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So then, it is not our righteousness that saves us; but it is our relationship to the Lord Jesus that is salvational.

It is your faith that makes you righteous, and so you are saved in that way. But it is the evidence of your faith, your works, that will 'save' you from the lake of fire at the judgment.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I would say that what this scripture is saying is that our confession of the Lord Jesus is made valid by the righteousness of faith that exists within our heart.

You got it backwards. Technically we know a claim of faith doesn't really prove anything. But the point is, what you do validates your faith (you had it the other way around). What you do validates the faith that motivated it. That's why Jesus can and will use our works to decide if we go to the left into the fire or to the right into the kingdom. I think it's this way for our sake, so we'll know if we're really ready and can prepare if needed to meet him at the resurrection.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think I am content to have you know and understand that someone who confesses the Lord on their deathbed is saved even if they do not have any subsequent works for lack of time to perform them.

I will agree with you that if they have the time to perform them they will do so because the righteousness needed to perform them is in their heart.

That is what I'm saying. And Christ will use those works to judge us at the judgment as loving him and having faith in him. That is why a person must be justified by both faith and works in this life. Their works show if they really have faith and are ready to be judged by Jesus.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yep. Kids get it. But us adults don't. What does that tell you about our stupid long winded theologies and what really counts?


Yep. Being justified means to be made righteous by official decree. But it also means to be seen as righteous. The church knows all too well how justified means being made righteous by official decree apart from what you do. But what they don't know is they also have to be seen as righteous, and so justified that way to be saved when Jesus comes back. Because works accompany real faith.

James 2:24
24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Real faith makes real works. That's why the true believer is justified by both faith and works and not by faith alone. If he isn't justified by works too he's showing himself to not be a true believer. He's dead meat at the resurrection. He'll have nothing to show for the faith he says he has but doesn't really have.

That is why Jesus cursed the Fig Tree !

It was not producing fruit which is why it was created.

For we are Gods workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works !

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But I will also say that it is important that we rest in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and not feel that we are somehow not saved if we have not done any good works;

Well, I think you are wrong there. The Bible tells us to use our works to confirm to ourselves if we are saved or not. The church has been ignoring this for decades now. Because the church is stupid. The leadership of the church rejected this teaching in the Bible and have created a whole church of followers who don't know this truth and who think they're ready to meet Jesus at the resurrection with their dead faith because salvation is not by works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is why Jesus cursed the Fig Tree !

It was not producing fruit which is why it was created.

For we are Gods workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works !

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

hope this helps !!!

Amen, bro!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and then, when we finally do some good work, to think that somehow we are now saved because we did it.

No worry. Unsaved people can't fake works on a consistent basis. That's the realization that causes honest, spiritually pricked people to come to Jesus without one plea. Your teaching literally robs people of the ministry of the law to condemn people as those who can't save themselves by their works because it teaches people you don't have to have works to be saved at the resurrection. And so they don't make any and every effort to make their calling and election sure as the Bible tells us to do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We are more likely to do good works that are worthy of salvation if we do them out of the fact that we are resting in the salvation that the Lord has given to us and are doing it as a labour of love out of a desire to see the other person saved, rather than seeking to do it "in order to save myself."

First off, why is obedience always about evangelism? We're talking about the works of personal obedience here, not people's ministry gifts. The obedience of Christ's character is what it's all about. Everyone knows that the love of God in a person is the motivator and power of being able to do good works. But the thing you do motivated by God's love is the evidence of God's love in you! Evidence you need so you can know if you're really ready to meet Jesus at the resurrection or not.

1 John 3:17
17But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

No works of love shows you don't have the love of God in you. We all know we don't do good works to earn salvation so why do so many in the church harp on this? I don't see people in the church trying to earn salvation through their good works. I see people in the church not doing good works because salvation is not by works. We're harping on the wrong thing. They don't know that their lack of righteous works is the evidence that they are not saved in the first place. The church is not telling you that because it stupidly thinks that would be telling people to earn their salvation through works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And even if I do what is worthy of salvation for the right reasons, that work does not save me (Ephesians 2:8-9); because I have already been saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.

Your work only saves you in the sense that it is the thing that must accompany salvation, or else it isn't really salvation, and which Jesus will use to judge you as a goat or a sheep at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:9
things that accompany salvation (works)

Many people don't have what accompanies salvation, because they don't have salvation, but they are sure they are saved because salvation is not by works. They think dead faith will save them at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:7
7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

 

[ChristisGod]

Your work only saves you in the sense that it is the thing that must accompany salvation, or else it isn't really salvation, and which Jesus will use to judge you as a goat or a sheep at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:9
things that accompany salvation (works)

Many people don't have what accompanies salvation, because they don't have salvation, but they are sure they are saved because salvation is not by works. They think dead faith will save them at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:7
7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Indeed all the teachings of Jesus in the Parables teach the same thing. And the Epistles of Paul, John, Peter, James and Hebrews agree. Its rightly dividing the word of Truth !

 

[ChristisGod]

Your work only saves you in the sense that it is the thing that must accompany salvation, or else it isn't really salvation, and which Jesus will use to judge you as a goat or a sheep at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:9
things that accompany salvation (works)

Many people don't have what accompanies salvation, because they don't have salvation, but they are sure they are saved because salvation is not by works. They think dead faith will save them at the resurrection.

Hebrews 6:7
7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Did you get a chance to check out this thread ?

False doctrine of the law keepers !

 

[brightfame52]

How utterly preposterous. How can a person fall away from something they never had?

Lol I just gave a verse

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did you get a chance to check out this thread ?

False doctrine of the law keepers !

No, I haven't. I will, though.

 

[brightfame52]

It is your faith that makes you righteous, and so you are saved in that way. But it is the evidence of your faith, your works, that will 'save' you from the lake of fire at the judgment.

One is made righteous by the obedience of Christ Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

One is made righteous by the obedience of Christ Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And if you really have the righteousness that comes from his obedience you will have works to prove it. Being made righteous in Christ means you are changed into a new creation that does righteous things. That's why Jesus can and will use our works to judge us at the resurrection as to whether we go to the right and into the kingdom or to the left and into the lake of fire.