The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[brightfame52]

And if you really have the righteousness that comes from his obedience you will have works to prove it. Being made righteous in Christ means you are changed into a new creation that does righteous things. That's why Jesus can and will use our works to judge us at the resurrection as to whether we go to the right and into the kingdom or to the left and into the lake of fire.

Eventually you will have works that would evidence it but not at first. They're made righteous before God apart from works. Solely by the obedience of Christ.

 

[Heyzeus]

thats right you roll the dice and see which books are inspired and which ones are not. ya right.........

No rolling of the dice involved - but either way - your Literalist perspective is a minority position - which seemed to be news to you.

So then .. since you believe all of the Bible is God Breathed - what should we do about babies who live in towns where some of the people of that town are East Indian and revere Lord Shiva

A) Kill all of the babies and fetuses .. along with the pregnant women in town
B) Children are not to be killed for the sins of there parents.

Which is God's word .. what should we do ?

 

[Heyzeus]

Eventually you will have works that would evidence it but not at first. They're made righteous before God apart from works. Solely by the obedience of Christ.

Many have works prior to coming to the Faith .. and many will continue doing good works without having any Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Many have works prior to coming to the Faith .. and many will continue doing good works without having any Faith.

Works before Faith I believe are dead works and having nothing to do with Salvation. The Blood of Christ purifies His People from dead works Heb 9:14
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

My point the ones Christ died for are eternally secure before faith, because counts them righteous from the womb, even though they are in themselves His enemies.

 

[Heyzeus]

Works before Faith I believe are dead works and having nothing to do with Salvation. The Blood of Christ purifies His People from dead works Heb 9:14
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

My point the ones Christ died for are eternally secure before faith, because counts them righteous from the womb, even though they are in themselves His enemies.

James 2 addresses this issue stating that Faith alone doctrine is foolish - and that Faith and works go together. James cites two examples of how one is Justified before God ... and the examples he uses do not include any belief in the Blood of Christ.

Jesus states that the sheep and goats will be separated according to works .. The faith alone folks are SOL Matt 25.

Jesus doubles down on this claim in Matt 7:21 Not all those that call "Lord Lord" will enter the Heaven ... "Only the one that does the Will of the Father" The will of the Father has nothing to do with Faith according to Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount

Last - there is a reason why the majority of Christianity does not accept Sola Fide.

 

[ChristisGod]

James 2 addresses this issue stating that Faith alone doctrine is foolish - and that Faith and works go together. James cites two examples of how one is Justified before God ... and the examples he uses do not include any belief in the Blood of Christ.

Jesus states that the sheep and goats will be separated according to works .. The faith alone folks are SOL Matt 25.

Jesus doubles down on this claim in Matt 7:21 Not all those that call "Lord Lord" will enter the Heaven ... "Only the one that does the Will of the Father" The will of the Father has nothing to do with Faith according to Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount

Last - there is a reason why the majority of Christianity does not accept Sola Fide.

james and matthew are not the bible, those are not jesus words

are u reading a red letter bible lol....................

next.......................................

 

[Heyzeus]

james and matthew are not the bible, those are not jesus words

are u reading a red letter bible lol....................

next.......................................

Certainly James is not the words of Jesus - but in Matt we have Jesus speaking.

Think you may have lost a screw somewhere along the way. What Bible are you reading that does not contain Matt ?

 

[ChristisGod]

Certainly James is not the words of Jesus - but in Matt we have Jesus speaking.

Think you may have lost a screw somewhere along the way. What Bible are you reading that does not contain Matt ?

no only John is inspired the others are from the Q source which is not reliable. same with james.

just like you I'll pick my inspired books and you pick yours.

next...........................

 

[HisLife]

Try quoting from the Sermon in which this directive was given .. rather than jumping off script to a different page. Matt 5-7 tells you all you need to know about the will of the Father... now get to "work" .. as in "works"

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you-

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you-

Ye have heard that it hath been said...But I say unto you

 

[justbyfaith]

2 Peter 1:8
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Cornelius did not know about a Christ that had not yet been revealed. But look at what he did have....

Acts 10:1-2
a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God.

He had works consistent with one who loves and fears God. He was justified by both his faith and his works. Like Abraham was.

But he was not saved according to Romans 10:9-10.

But the point is, what you do validates your faith (you had it the other way around). What you do validates the faith that motivated it.

I was right to have it the other way around. If believing is only unto righteousness, but confession is unto salvation, then I consider that the believig makes you righteous so that when you confess the Lord Jesus, that confession is valid.

Whereas if you did not have faith, and therefore did not have righteousness, your confession of Jesus would come up short; since there is no righteousness behind your confession and therefore it would be an empty confession.

That is why a person must be justified by both faith and works in this life.

A person is justified by faith apart from works according to Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. I will add Romans 3:28.

Well, I think you are wrong there. The Bible tells us to use our works to confirm to ourselves if we are saved or not. The church has been ignoring this for decades now. Because the church is stupid. The leadership of the church rejected this teaching in the Bible and have created a whole church of followers who don't know this truth and who think they're ready to meet Jesus at the resurrection with their dead faith because salvation is not by works.

How many works do I need to accomplish before I am saved in your view? If I do one good work, and then cease to do good works thereafter, am I still saved? If I must continue to do good works in order to be saved, what happens if I have the opportunity to do a good work and then fail to do it? Am I automatically consigned to the lake of fire?

What if you do not succeed at accomplishing "all that ye can do"? Are you now no longer saved by grace?

It seems to me that if salvation is by works (as you seem to be purporting), that there is always one more work that I have to do in order to be able to procure my salvation.

I do believe that assurance is an issue here (see 1 Thessalonians 1:5, Ephesians 6:17, 1 Thessalonians 5:8).

 

[brightfame52]

hey

James cites two examples of how one is Justified before God

I believe James is talking about Justification before men not before God. That would contradict Paul in Rom 4:2

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[Renniks]

Your version of literalism is loop te doop to most of us .. but hey .. perhaps you are correct.. Just don't pretend you are the majority perspective.

You don't even know what my version is. It's not that everything is literal. There's plenty of figurative language in scripture. Jesus isn't actually a door or a gate. He's not saying we should literally hack our hand off if it causes us to stumble. But he did literally die and come back.

 

[Renniks]

Do you believe every word out of the mouth of the Popes was Inspired as well ? .. Gods Inspired Word ? His ordained servants on earth .. Pontifex Maximus

Nope and neither do Catholics. Even though they may claim to.

 

[Renniks]

If a person falls away from the faith they were never saved. They were what Jesus called stoney heart hearers. Lk 8:13


They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

Yes they fell away. You can't fall away from somewhere you never were.
Do it's silly to say they were never saved.

 

[Renniks]

You're dead meat.

No, seriously. Only you and the people who know you can see whether you're different than what you were before you were born again.

2 Peter 1:8
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure

Ephesians 2:13
13 and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Born again people are growing in righteousness "attaining to the whole measure" of Christ's character. But unsaved people are becoming more and more corrupt and not growing at all in holiness.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed

Uh huh. But born again people also back slide, and then regain ground. They are different than they would have been, but they still fall short in many ways.
The whole reason we need those verses is because we are still badly broken. And I have never attended a church that didn't teach we should get better, but churches are also more likely to be more understanding and honest about us all being sinners today. It's a relief not to pretend we are all perfectly holy.

 

[BarneyFife]

Nope - I think James is very inspired - but this has nothing to do with my position.. and everything to do with your conflicting belief .. God is not a flip flopping xenophobic genocidal maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics. .. IMO - but you are welcome to maintain your literalist position.

You seem to know an awful lot about me.

 

[BarneyFife]

Lol I just gave a verse

I can give a verse to support any doctrine you like. It doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is why a person must be justified by both faith and works in this life.

A person is justified by faith apart from works according to Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. I will add Romans 3:28.

I see you still don't know what James means when he says a man is justified by works too and not by faith alone. You don't know how a man must be justified by both faith and works to be saved when Jesus comes because you can't see how that isn't a works gospel. Most of the church can't see it either and so they are sure people with dead faith are going to go to the right and into the kingdom when Jesus comes back. That's not what Jesus says.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes they fell away. You can't fall away from somewhere you never were.
Do it's silly to say they were never saved.

Yeah they were never saved, did you read Lk 8:13

 

[brightfame52]

I can give a verse to support any doctrine you like. It doesn't mean a thing.

Ok