The Explanation Of Speaking In Tongues

[revturmoil]

Well spoken Mr Jiggyfly!

Very poorly spoken and misunderstood!

The way you guy's understand the gift of tongues gives man and the evil one his hand in the mix. If we can't verify that the gift or the experience is truly authentic and from God, the that means we can't tell the difference between which spirit gives the utterance! Is it an utterance of man, of Satan, or of God? Every spiritual gift is verifiable. If it cannot be, then there's no way to determine if the gift truly is of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:1 ¶Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The same is true of speaking in tongues! How can a church who heard someone speak in tongues be assured it's from the Holy Ghost? There are hundreds of instances of people putting tongues to the test by going into a church and rambling something off while his fraudulent buddy interprets all the while the congragation thinks it's of the Spirit! If we can't determine whether the tongues are real or fraudulent, it proves nothing about the gift.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

It must be proven that the administration of tongues is of the Spirit and nothing else.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

It must be verified that speaking in tongues is the manifistation of the Spirit othewise it could be the manifeatation of man or the evil one.

Every other spiritual gift has an element of verification and tongues isn't excluded!

 

[jiggyfly]

Very poorly spoken and misunderstood!

The way you guy's understand the gift of tongues gives man and the evil one his hand in the mix. If we can't verify that the gift or the experience is truly authentic and from God, the that means we can't tell the difference between which spirit gives the utterance! Is it an utterance of man, of Satan, or of God? Every spiritual gift is verifiable. If it cannot be, then there's no way to determine if the gift truly is of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:1 ¶Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The same is true of speaking in tongues! How can a church who heard someone speak in tongues be assured it's from the Holy Ghost? There are hundreds of instances of people putting tongues to the test by going into a church and rambling something off while his fraudulent buddy interprets all the while the congragation thinks it's of the Spirit! If we can't determine whether the tongues are real or fraudulent, it proves nothing about the gift.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

It must be proven that the administration of tongues is of the Spirit and nothing else.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

It must be verified that speaking in tongues is the manifistation of the Spirit othewise it could be the manifeatation of man or the evil one.

Every other spiritual gift has an element of verification and tongues isn't excluded!

Sure it must be verified, but it is verified by HolySpirit not Kaoticprofit. Do or have you ever personally experienced the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues? Do you pray in the Spirit? What spiritual gifts have you experienced?

 

[revturmoil]

Sure it must be verified, but it is verified by HolySpirit not Kaoticprofit. Do or have you ever personally experienced the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues? Do you pray in the Spirit? What spiritual gifts have you experienced?

How about if you tell me how the gift is verified. The Holy Spirit does the administration of the gift! And the only way for the Holy Spirit to verify it is to prove that what was spoken is indeed what was interpreted! Otherwise anybody can counterfeit the gift. Even kaoticprofit!

I don't want to speak in tongues because it's not usually necessary. It's the least desirable of all the gifts and the most abused and misused. And I've seen enough of it's fraudulent use of it over the years to know better. My gifts are personal. I would only be criticized for disclosing them besides they are mine and personal.

 

[jiggyfly]

How about if you tell me how the gift is verified. The Holy Spirit does the administration of the gift! And the only way for the Holy Spirit to verify it is to prove that what was spoken is indeed what was interpreted! Otherwise anybody can counterfeit the gift. Even kaoticprofit!

If it strengthens everyone in the Lord and Paul said in 1Cor. 12:3 "So I want you to know how to discern what is truly from God: No one speaking by the Spirit of God can curse Jesus, and no one is able to say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."
How would you have HolySpirit prove that the interpretation was correct?

I don't want to speak in tongues because it's not usually necessary. It's the least desirable of all the gifts and the most abused and misused. And I've seen enough of it's fraudulent use of it over the years to know better. .

I wish you all had the gift of speaking in tongues, but even more I wish you were all able to prophesy. For prophecy is a greater and more useful gift than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church can get some good out of it. 1Cor.14:5

My gifts are personal. I would only be criticized for disclosing them besides they are mine and personal.

If your gifts are yours and personal how do you reason that they are among the spiritual gifts administered by HolySpirit?
A spiritual gift is given to each of us as a means of helping the entire church. 1Cor. 12:7

Bottom line here Kaoticprofit is if you haven't experienced the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues how will you know that this one or that one is a knock off.

Here is a short example, The U.S. Treasury Dept. agents do not recognize counterfeit currency by studying counterfeits but rather have studied the real currency so much that they can recognize when a fake comes along.

 

[revturmoil]

If it strengthens everyone in the Lord and Paul said in 1Cor. 12:3 "So I want you to know how to discern what is truly from God: No one speaking by the Spirit of God can curse Jesus, and no one is able to say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."
How would you have HolySpirit prove that the interpretation was correct?

When Peter was preaching to the multitudes the miracle appears to be in the hearing and not in the speaking.

This is the way I experienced it and the only way it can be verified.....In 73, I was in a Pentecostal service in a military chapel in West Germany. There were three Muslim's from Crete that we were helping out whose visa's had expired. During the service someone spoke in tongues and it didn't sound like a bunch of vain babblings like I would typically hear from Pentecostal's. The language I heard had structure to it. The three Muslim's were astonished. The tongues speaker, who the Muslim's knew didn't speak Greek, heard the speaker in Greek and understood what he said. The interpreter who didn't know Greek either, interpreted in English what the speaker said in Greek. Two Muslim's did speak English enough to hear the interpretation which was the same message he had heard spoken in Greek. Their Names were Moham, Sassi, and Kumar and I'm pretty sure two of them spoke a bit of English.

That was the only time in my life I was edified by someone speaking in tongues and I've heard them at least a hundred times. I was edified because we were all astonishednd.

As far as praying in tongues goes I've heard some pretty bad ones and there's no way to verify it. It was just the repetition of the same syllable.

That's for your own personal prayer life anyway.

If your gifts are yours and personal how do you reason that they are among the spiritual gifts administered by HolySpirit?

By reason of knowing what the spiritual gifts are. There are a lot of gifts and this isn't the place for me to discuss them. If we were in person I would.

When you feel the Holy Spirit at His fullest, the only way I can explain it is that it's a total feeling of well being in your soul.

Bottom line here Kaoticprofit is if you haven't experienced the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues how will you know that this one or that one is a knock off.

I told you before that anybody can speak in tongues and anybody can interpret. It''s too easy to fake it. It must be proven that it indeed was the Holy Spirit administering it.

I don't believe in them the way you do and I've experienced the real thing. I know that tongues are unnecessary in most cases and very necessary when the gospell was just beginning.

 

[revturmoil]

He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and to another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of God or another spirit that is speaking. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, [fn] and another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 1Cor. 12:10


These gifts are supernatural.

I disagree, it must be as HolySpirit decides and directs.



Have you experienced this gift of speaking in tongues? Do you pray in the Spirit?

How does the Holy Spirit decide and direct the verification of true tongues? By the witness of the unbeliever! it's meant for them! What was spoken in the language of the unbeliever is interpreted in the language of the people present.. That's the only way to ensure what took place was from God! Otherwise anybody can fake it but that doesn't seem to matter to you guys.

 

[Robbie]

I've never spoken in a tongue but I'm not gonna judge others who do because what if I'm wrong? What if it is the Spirit and I end up calling the Spirit a fake? Better to just realize it's not my thing and not judge others... if they're faking it to get some kind of spiritual recognition that's between them and God... if they're not faking it and I find myself talking trash on the Spirit of God well I just put myself in a really messed up situation... and what do I have to gain? Feeling right? No thanks.... I'd rather feel safe than right... so if you got the gifts of tongues get your tongue on... none of my business... it's between you and God or whoever else might benefit from it.

 

[jiggyfly]

How does the Holy Spirit decide and direct the verification of true tongues? By the witness of the unbeliever! it's meant for them! What was spoken in the language of the unbeliever is interpreted in the language of the people present.. That's the only way to ensure what took place was from God! Otherwise anybody can fake it but that doesn't seem to matter to you guys.

Let get this right, you believe that the only way to know if someone speaking in the spiritual gift of tongues is genuine or not is by the testimony of an unbeliever?

Have you ever read this scripture?

And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means.1Cor 2:12-14


You may want to seek God's help and rethink your position on this.

I've never spoken in a tongue but I'm not gonna judge others who do because what if I'm wrong? What if it is the Spirit and I end up calling the Spirit a fake? Better to just realize it's not my thing and not judge others... if they're faking it to get some kind of spiritual recognition that's between them and God... if they're not faking it and I find myself talking trash on the Spirit of God well I just put myself in a really messed up situation... and what do I have to gain? Feeling right? No thanks.... I'd rather feel safe than right... so if you got the gifts of tongues get your tongue on... none of my business... it's between you and God or whoever else might benefit from it.

Good advice

And to add a little scripture to what you have said.

So, dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues. 1Cor. 14:39

 

[revturmoil]

Let get this right, you believe that the only way to know if someone speaking in the spiritual gift of tongues is genuine or not is by the testimony of an unbeliever?

In the experience I explained the church was edified by the testamony of the three Muslim's because what the Muslim's heard was in fact what was interpreted. So the Muslim's were edified by the experience.

The sign is meant for the unbeliever. How can it be a sign to an unbeliever if they didn't understand what was spoken? There's no way for them to verify what they heard was indeed what was interpretated! Every other gift has an element of verification and tongues isn't excluded. It's the easiest gift of all to counterfeit. It must be proven that it's not fake.

Have you ever read this scripture?

And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means.1Cor 2:12-14

You may want to seek God's help and rethink your position on this.

You may want to re-think your position. Read the chapter and observe the context. It's not speaking about tongues, it's speaking about the wisdom of the world as opposed to the wisdom of God. That's why toward the end of the chapter Paul say's,

1 Corinthians 2:14 　But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Several years ago when I was studying tongues with some friends we became leary of Pentecostalism because nearly every verse they quoted to support tongues was completely taken out of context. While studying these verses many of us said, "that's not what that verse say's to me!" It also caused many of us to question other things the 'experts' were teaching. It's common for Pentecostal's to take things out of context to support their beliefs. The verse you quoted is a prime example of it.

 

[Foreigner]

"It's common for Pentecostal's to take things out of context to support their beliefs. The verse you quoted is a prime example of it." - kao


-- Congratulations on your unsubstantiated accusation. You have successfully null and voided the validity of your previous comments.

 

[[email protected]]

That didn't answer my question. What scripture verse can you quote that say's we must speak in tongues because our asking, or our worship is inadequate?

This is exactly what I meant when I referred to children in the play box throwing sand at one another.
At this point, a quotation of scripture will be met by another quotation of scripture to justify the opposite POV.

My question is to ask whether one believes that the Holy Spirit can have an effect upon the human body, specifically tongues, healing, revelation & inspiration, salvation and RESURRECTION.

DO YOU BELIEVE?

PS No scripture references required.

 

[jiggyfly]

In the experience I explained the church was edified by the testamony of the three Muslim's because what the Muslim's heard was in fact what was interpreted. So the Muslim's were edified by the experience.

The sign is meant for the unbeliever. How can it be a sign to an unbeliever if they didn't understand what was spoken? There's no way for them to verify what they heard was indeed what was interpretated! Every other gift has an element of verification and tongues isn't excluded. It's the easiest gift of all to counterfeit. It must be proven that it's not fake.



You may want to re-think your position. Read the chapter and observe the context. It's not speaking about tongues, it's speaking about the wisdom of the world as opposed to the wisdom of God. That's why toward the end of the chapter Paul say's,

1 Corinthians 2:14 　But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Thanks for the scripture, which really just drives home my point.

 

[rockytopva]

Thanks for the scripture, which really just drives home my point.

I think the only way someone is going to believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues is to experience it. Unless they experience it for themselves or at least know someone who possesses it along with the fruits of light and energy we are really wasting our time and are going to find ourselves repeating previous posts.

 

[goodshepard55]

I think the only way someone is going to believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues is to experience it. Unless they experience it for themselves or at least know someone who possesses it along with the fruits of light and energy we are really wasting our time and are going to find ourselves repeating previous posts.

TRUE..and if they seek them they will find them.....Mercy.....When the Holy Spirit rocks one with the gifts....especially someone from the south...it is Amazing how your mind has to readjust to all that was taught in Sunday School about the Spirit....BTW...how many here has been taught the gifts no longer apply? and where in the Word does it say we can't receive the gifts of the Spirit?....Just seek them...for people that don't believe in tongues, most likely that will be one of the very first to receive....LOL...My Daddy does love to play......

 

[HammerStone]

IMHO, the largest issue is the emphasis that is placed on tongues. Some place too much, and others too little.

 

[rockytopva]

IMHO, the largest issue is the emphasis that is placed on tongues. Some place too much, and others too little.

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Well said Mr Hammerstone!

 

[revturmoil]

"It's common for Pentecostal's to take things out of context to support their beliefs. The verse you quoted is a prime example of it." - kao


-- Congratulations on your unsubstantiated accusation. You have successfully null and voided the validity of your previous comments.

What have you done to prove your position?

Pretribulationist are best at it and have Pentecostal's beat by far when it comes to quoting scripture out of context. People who accept questionable doctrines "line, hook, and sinker" don't care about the scriptural evidence and don't look at it objectively. They just care about supporting the doctrine because that's what they believe.

In 1992 I and others sat down and studied tongues and 'Babylon'. We were amazed at the amount of scriptures taken out of context. We were studying it with books I received fron a Pentecostal church.
I no longer believe anything written by others and question everything and am willing to admit I'm wrong or that I've made mistakes. Too many Christian's aren't objective at all. They would rather stand for what they believe than for the truth.

 

[revturmoil]

This is exactly what I meant when I referred to children in the play box throwing sand at one another.
At this point, a quotation of scripture will be met by another quotation of scripture to justify the opposite POV.

My question is to ask whether one believes that the Holy Spirit can have an effect upon the human body, specifically tongues, healing, revelation & inspiration, salvation and RESURRECTION.

DO YOU BELIEVE?

PS No scripture references required.

I believe the Holy Spirit has an effect on the human spirit and in turn the gifts are administered. Whatever happens to the body afterwards is up to the Spirit but any of it must be verified! In order for people to believe in any gift of the Spirit they must be validated and that's not difficult to do with tongues. The only way I've seen tongues authenticated was with the three Muslim's who had accepted Christ. The message from the tongues speaker and interpreter was meant specifically for the Muslim's. They're visa's were renewed and were headed back to Crete in a few days. This happened almost 40 years ago and the message was for them to stand fast in the faith.

 

[revturmoil]

Thanks for the scripture, which really just drives home my point.

What point? The verse I quoted has nothing to do with the proper use of tongues! Only Pentecostal's apply it to tongues and tongues aren't even mentioned in the text! I'm willing to debate any verse about the use of tongues. But like I said. Bible verses are too often taken out of context by Pentecostal's and it's no different than debating pretribulatonism. So much of it is taken completely out of context. If anything 1 Corinthian's 2 encourages us to compare spiritual things with spiritual for spiritual discernment. This chapter actually doen't support your believe that tongues doesn't have to be verified. It wprks against it!

 

[Robbie]

I think I get what Jiggyfly was saying... correct me if I'm wrong Jiggy...

It does say the natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit because they seem foolish... and speaking in tongues is from the Spirit... so if speaking in tongues seems foolish to someone... I guess there's a chance they might be seeing things from the perspective of a natural man and not spiritually...