My replies to rockytopva in blue.
I know my experience is authentic because it happened way down deep within my heart. One of the big troubles I have with the charismatic movement is that they teach people how to praise the Lord and worship. No body taught this to me. The Holy Ghost came upon me. It was not the tongues that were important but the spiritual goods attained way down in the inside. So it is the fact that I am a changed creation that is proof. I felt that I gave God my old tattered spiritual garments and he gave me a robe of pure white! Like a white mantle! I can tell you when those men got the Holy Ghost in Acts 19:6 that they felt it in their spirit first and then spake in tongues and prophesied next!
Your religions goes against thousands of thousands of people to whom Jesus gave his Spirit. Your religion says unless a person speaks in tongues...they are not baptized with the Holy Spirit. How can you believe and teach such falseness?
People today are spiritually poor.
You falsely judge and accuse people of being spiritually poor, because they don't speak in tongues! What a horrible thing to say to anyone, it's false.
So what good is teaching tongues? Maybe it is because of the materialistic nature of our society that this blessing is no longer occurring. Back when our church began there were no TV sets. People would have prayer meetings at home, revivals would go for weeks and last into the wee hours of the morning. The Holy Spirit would speak through people. I as a teenager grabbed a hold of these things and held on tight! Going to church was very exciting for me.
The Bible says if you don't know what you say...then it is not fruitful for your mind. That is from the Word of God.
I do not council people to 'get the Holy Ghost' these days. I basically tell them to pray and find them a good church and fall in with the believers. I work with dear Baptist ladies and I never mention Pentecost to them. I know deep inside for true Pentecost to occur takes a total sell out from the things of the world. Prayer meetings, fasting, total commitment, a pure heart, bible reading are needed for this blessing to reoccur. If you want it there is a price to pay for it.
How do you say such things to people...assuming they don't have the Holy Spirit because they don't speak in tongues. How dare you assume they haven't sold out from the things of the world, because they don't speak in tongues, as you say. How dare you assume they don't pray, nor fast, nor have total commitment, because they don't speak in tongues. How dare you say they don't have a pure heart, and that they don't read their Bible, because they don't speak in tongues.
I have no problem with the issues people have with me on this one as there are too many people who fail to possess the thing they profess.
This blessing was not promised to only the Apostles but to everyone that believes!
The Explanation Of Speaking In Tongues
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. - 2 Chronicles 7:14
In this day and time what I would recommend for people wanting to be Baptized in the Holy Ghost...
1. Begin a fast - Become chaste in your diet.
2. Worldly Influences - Turning the TV off all together is a nice option.
3. Bible Reading - Become immersed daily in the word of God.
4. Prayer - I like praying along with the Bible Broadcasting Network at 1:15 PM (http://www.bbnradio.org/WCM4/Default.aspx?alias=www.bbnradio.org/WCM4/english)
5. In home meetings - Have friends over for prayer and bible reading. Discuss what things the Spirit of God has been speaking to you about.
(Making sure that it is indeed the Spirit of God!)
6. A Godly routine... My people would work hard 5 days a week, go to town on Saturday, and Sunday was the Lords day where nobody worked.
7. Good things in the ears - My IPod is full of good spiritual things.
8. A good church - Don't omit a good church in all of this! Learn how to praise the Lord in the sanctuary!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj_e28NYb1Y
9. Show faith hope and charity!
As you do these things you will find yourself closer and closer to the Holy of Holies and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. What would it hurt
I'm not going to watch your video. I hope I have helped to expose your religion and the falseness it teaches.
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Anastacia... At some point in your life you need to have that heart of yours warmed by the Holy Spirit. When that happens it won't matter what others think.
Shame on you. Shame on your for saying I don't have a warm heart, and that I don't have the Holy Spirit. Shame on you for saying those false things to someone for speaking the Truth.
How do so many get away with attacking in a personal way that has nothing to do with the topic??
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I never said that you didn't have the Holy Spirit. My goodness why the big deal over speaking in tongues?
WhiteKnuckle
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revturmoil
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Rockytopva,
You said,
It's authentic to you but every gift has an element of validity. I have no doubt your experience is real but for tongues to be authentic it must be proven. In other words. How can the people hearing the tongue be assured that what is interpreted is in fact what was spoken? There must be a way of validating it.
What's wrong with being taught the biblical principle of worship?
I don't see how materialism would have anything to do with it. I do see how tongues and miracles were necessary in the early stages of the bible's development and how it could be necessary in remote areas or third world countries. People experience the same things you do without speaking in tongues. If you record a tongues speaker and give it to a linguist they will tell you that it has no grammatical fluency or structure. The experience is more involved than just interpretated jibberish and I don't mean to be offensive.
Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with spiritual and devotional commitment. If we immerse ourselves with the things of God and pay our dues that doesn't mean that tongues are also a result. I had a pastor tell me once that I needed to develop that spiritual language.
Even if you believe that's it's the outward sign of the Spirit's infilling, tongues has nothing to do with your ability to live a Spirit filled Christian life. It's too bad the more important gifts aren't as prevalent in Pentecostal churches, that's because those gifts are easily authenticated, and tongues is easily counterfeited.
Thank God for the ignore feature. It helps keep me civil. All I see is "You have chosen to ignore all post from:..."
Ahh but those Quote boxes!
You said,
It's authentic to you but every gift has an element of validity. I have no doubt your experience is real but for tongues to be authentic it must be proven. In other words. How can the people hearing the tongue be assured that what is interpreted is in fact what was spoken? There must be a way of validating it.
What's wrong with being taught the biblical principle of worship?
I don't see how materialism would have anything to do with it. I do see how tongues and miracles were necessary in the early stages of the bible's development and how it could be necessary in remote areas or third world countries. People experience the same things you do without speaking in tongues. If you record a tongues speaker and give it to a linguist they will tell you that it has no grammatical fluency or structure. The experience is more involved than just interpretated jibberish and I don't mean to be offensive.
Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with spiritual and devotional commitment. If we immerse ourselves with the things of God and pay our dues that doesn't mean that tongues are also a result. I had a pastor tell me once that I needed to develop that spiritual language.
Even if you believe that's it's the outward sign of the Spirit's infilling, tongues has nothing to do with your ability to live a Spirit filled Christian life. It's too bad the more important gifts aren't as prevalent in Pentecostal churches, that's because those gifts are easily authenticated, and tongues is easily counterfeited.
Thank God for the ignore feature. It helps keep me civil. All I see is "You have chosen to ignore all post from:..."
Ahh but those Quote boxes!
I disagree.
Who is 'them that believe' from Mark 16:17-18?
That's easy;
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
As you know, they (the eleven) then later believed;
Mar 16:19-20 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
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I am one of those that believes.
I have no problem for someone to claim the Holy Spirit without getting it the old Methodist way... But please... Show me some fruit!
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Well then, since you don't believe you won't have to worry about getting it, will you?
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If that isn't bad enough I actually carry anointing oil and prayer cloths with me in my vehicle. My Grandmother got very ill with falling spells and was one Sunday totally out of it. I got the old bottle of olive oil and prayer cloths out and prayed a prayer of faith to the Father over her in the name of Jesus... And after that she was still out of it. I went home to rest for a couple of hours and came back to Grannies and she was sitting up! She went the next 14 months without going to the doctor or hospital until one Sunday afternoon I had brought our dinner. I prayed over the meal to the Father in the name of Jesus and we conversated and ate. I told her that I was going to lay down for a while and read the paper. I heard a terrible sound from the kitchen in which she had a massive stroke that would take her life a few days later at age 91. I will always thank the Father in Jesus name for getting me through those hard times.
But I do believe 'them which had seen Him after he was risen', because the Holy Bible tells me in the preceding chapters what 'they (including those of the non-eleven)' saw.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
The subject of belief/unbelief in Mar 16:14-17 is simply referring to 'them which had seen Him after he was risen'.
I believe they saw what they said they saw, but I think you're wanting to tell us that the subject means something else.
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Read the gospels mate! The Lord was trying to disciple his people to have faith. How many times did he say to the disciples... Oh ye of little faith!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4-GTuzOo0I
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God bless you my brother! Another way we have of knowing that the Holy Spirit resides on the inside is when there is interest in his word!
God bless you my brother! Another way we have of knowing that the Holy Spirit resides on the inside is when there is interest in his word!
God bless you too.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
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Choir Loft
rockytopva, on 01 March 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:
The Apostle Paul said that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than those at Corinth
After all the scripture and theories are tossed about like children in the play box who throw sand at each other, we arrive at one single question.
Do you or do you not believe that the Holy Spirit can have a physical influence upon the human body?
Be careful how you answer, because to say no is to deny the fact of divine miracles such as healing, revelations, simple epiphanies and the salvation experience itself.
We could even go a step further and extrapolate a negative answer to say that no one is able to wring any spiritual inspiration at all from the pages of scripture. Atheists do that all the time, attributing spiritual matters to fantasy and delusion.
I for one reject the humanistic explanation and embrace the work of the Holy Spirit.
This brings us back to the basic question of 'do you believe anything at all'?
If not, why not.
If you do, then no amount of bickering here will slow your faith. Quite the opposite, those that deny such things may actually be playing the devil's game in the attempt to erode your faith. If that is the case, then such persons may find themselves opposed to God Himself, an unfortunate situation indeed.
The Apostle Paul said that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than those at Corinth
After all the scripture and theories are tossed about like children in the play box who throw sand at each other, we arrive at one single question.
Do you or do you not believe that the Holy Spirit can have a physical influence upon the human body?
Be careful how you answer, because to say no is to deny the fact of divine miracles such as healing, revelations, simple epiphanies and the salvation experience itself.
We could even go a step further and extrapolate a negative answer to say that no one is able to wring any spiritual inspiration at all from the pages of scripture. Atheists do that all the time, attributing spiritual matters to fantasy and delusion.
I for one reject the humanistic explanation and embrace the work of the Holy Spirit.
This brings us back to the basic question of 'do you believe anything at all'?
If not, why not.
If you do, then no amount of bickering here will slow your faith. Quite the opposite, those that deny such things may actually be playing the devil's game in the attempt to erode your faith. If that is the case, then such persons may find themselves opposed to God Himself, an unfortunate situation indeed.
Speaking in tongues is real.
The Holy Spirit in you knows better than you do what you need.
When you are praying and praising and come to an impass as to what you are trying to tell God, He will speak on your behalf using your own voice.
You do not need to know what it is said. You need only allow the Holy Spirit to speak.
Sometimes He interjects phrases/statements during your normal praise and worshiping outloud and sometimes - when you release control - He will speak long and loud for you.
He is your intercessor. He allows you to worship Jesus in a way you alone can't and He is able to ask Jesus for exactly what you need, be it guidance, assistance, intercession, etc.
This is not a difficult or strange thing.
God often calls on people to pray for specific things for other people. He already knows what they need, but requires the request, the intercession.
The Holy Spirit in you knows better than you do what you need.
When you are praying and praising and come to an impass as to what you are trying to tell God, He will speak on your behalf using your own voice.
You do not need to know what it is said. You need only allow the Holy Spirit to speak.
Sometimes He interjects phrases/statements during your normal praise and worshiping outloud and sometimes - when you release control - He will speak long and loud for you.
He is your intercessor. He allows you to worship Jesus in a way you alone can't and He is able to ask Jesus for exactly what you need, be it guidance, assistance, intercession, etc.
This is not a difficult or strange thing.
God often calls on people to pray for specific things for other people. He already knows what they need, but requires the request, the intercession.
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