You have inserted a lot of details with which I have little familiarity. Oh, I know the scriptures as I have been reading all of the Bible for a very long time. I simply read and pray. Once in a while God impresses me to read or study outside of my routine reading [geared to read all of the Bible on a regular basis] and I do. Once in a while God impresses a new insight or understanding on me. This is the Holy Spirit bringing to Life the dead words consumed. My physical mind is limited outside of what God impresses [writes] on my heart. Do I need more than I have? If I do and I ask of Him from the heart will He refuse me? Not if it is really needed some purpose of His, He will not.
You want to perhaps change the perception I have of many things including apparently what the second death is, or is not. I won't say it cannot happen. Anything that God wills can happen if I do not oppose Him.
I still do not see what you are saying. Yes, I have read Ezekiel 18, but without receiving what you have received. The second death is the hang up place. I don't believe it I am certain as most orthodox believers do, but also apparently not as you do either. I am the old dog that can learn new tricks, but not easily because I am old. The only things that come easily to me are those that God writes on my heart. This is I would suppose why Paul writes that God "gives the increase". He may use a man as an instrument of that writing, but no man should presume that he will be so used simply because he wants to be.
I read what you are writing but I do not really understand what you are saying.
Our gaining of eternal Life is a future event? Must it be so? What would stop a person from gaining it today? What if a person has already become the overcomer that Jesus wants him to be even before the dirt is shoveled onto his face? Would he not them immediately do able to eat of the Tree of Life and never die?
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God? Rev 2:7.
If a person believes in Jesus exactly as he means it before the dirt is shoveled onto his face, why would he then ever have to die?
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26
Why would such a one need to wait that 1,000 year period... for what?
The heart and mind of man without God is where the deception lies. If however a person had come to love correctly the truth and continues to do so, why would he ever be deceived?
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12
We as sinners should have surrendered to God and if we did or if we do then He would have led us along the correct pathway for us to obtain what He had for us. God already loved, but when we did this and have continued to do this, then we have shown our love for Him.
People who have encountered God, as I see, too often want to keep taking hold of their own reins and walking along their own chosen pathway to God. God is the One who should be doing all of the choosing, but He is merciful sometimes will even for a moment bless such misguided ways.
Eventually, however, holding onto our own reins must stop if we are ever to be one with Him. The ingredients for final judgment are in place when we either overcome as Jesus overcame or we have believed exactly as God intended for us to believe.... or when we have effectively elected some other way according to the ways of men with all of the rewards or lack thereof [curses] which would apply.
Yes, it seems to be different, but I do not really understand your position well so it is difficult for me to describe precisely any differences. I presume that God will show me if I really do need to know.
Shalom.
I have nothing more to add at this time to my above inserted comments.
May God richly bless you as you walk along the pathway He has for you.
The Fall from Heaven ?
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I repeat- so who exactly was Nimrod and the mighty men[giants] of old and the daughters of men - how about Jn 10:34 - who are the children of light and who the children of darkness - twinc
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Helen
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I guess you are going to have to google some bible studies and find out twinc
I doubt anyone knows for sure, but I am sure many people have opinions, some always do!!
Davy
Well-Known Member
With that question you're bringing up the subject of the sons of God in Noah's day taking wives of the daughters of men and causing the existence of the giants. That's not about Satan's fall from heaven, which I thought was this thread's subject.
So what is your belief on that anyway, since you brought it up?
what I have to say cannot and will not be accepted, since what I have said previously was not accepted that it was Adam who was created in the image and likeness of God whereas we are created in the fallen image and likeness of Adam[man] - Gen 5:3 - twinc
btw a clue is provided later on as at Lk 3:38
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bbyrd009
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seems like that would fail the "after their kind" argument? But this is why i dislike the "Fall" argument so much anyway; God created Adam in His Image, and Adam ate the fruit that we now perceive as a "Fall," see, but the word "play" is in the Bible twice as often as the word "redemption."
Adam "fell" in the same manner that growing up, maturing, becoming an adult is "Falling," right, hence "become like a little child," before the religionists apply their retarded definition to it. Not similar, exactly equal, imo.
so to state that Adam was created in God's image while we are only in Adam's image is just another way to be schizophrenic wadr
you are Adam (and Eve, if you can accept it; as brought out later @ "two in a bed")
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Davy
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I don't see any real problem with that idea of Adam being created in the image likeness of God, spiritually. I hold to the Hebrew of Genesis 1 which makes a distinction between the creation of the man Adam vs. the creation of mankind in general (i.e., the races). The Hebrew has just aadam for one, and eth'ha'aadam for the specific man Adam which God placed in His Garden to till the soil. Thus the Hebrew of Gen.1 is actually showing God created both the man Adam and the races of mankind, on the same 6th Day.
From the lineage of the man Adam, Christ Jesus would be born, which is the lineage back to Adam of Luke 3.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Since we're talking about Satan's fall from heaven, and I assume everyone here knows that was back in a time before Adam and Eve, there is this tadbit of Scripture in our Lord's Revelation pointing back to that time...
Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV
In the later Rev.12:9 verse we are shown that the "dragon" is but another title for Satan himself. So this "red dragon" is Satan. That beast system of 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns is being given with this timing in verse 4 when Satan drew the third part of the stars of heaven (angels) with him to earth when he fell from heaven.
Some will say, "No, that beast system is about the one in Revelation 13 in the next chapter!"
But is it?
Rev.12:3-4: 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 crowns
Rev 13:1
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV
Rev.13:1: 7 heads, 10 horns, 10 crowns
Because that beast system of 7 crowns is given with the timing when Satan first fell from heaven and drew a third of the angels with him, it means in that time of old, he tried to establish a beast kingdom with 7 crowns on earth similar to the one described in the Rev.13 chapter for the end of this world that is to have 10 crowns.
By just that little change, and link with the drawing of a third of the angels, our Lord Jesus has given us a whole lot... of information about the final beast kingdom in Rev.13.
Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV
In the later Rev.12:9 verse we are shown that the "dragon" is but another title for Satan himself. So this "red dragon" is Satan. That beast system of 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns is being given with this timing in verse 4 when Satan drew the third part of the stars of heaven (angels) with him to earth when he fell from heaven.
Some will say, "No, that beast system is about the one in Revelation 13 in the next chapter!"
But is it?
Rev.12:3-4: 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 crowns
Rev 13:1
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV
Rev.13:1: 7 heads, 10 horns, 10 crowns
Because that beast system of 7 crowns is given with the timing when Satan first fell from heaven and drew a third of the angels with him, it means in that time of old, he tried to establish a beast kingdom with 7 crowns on earth similar to the one described in the Rev.13 chapter for the end of this world that is to have 10 crowns.
By just that little change, and link with the drawing of a third of the angels, our Lord Jesus has given us a whole lot... of information about the final beast kingdom in Rev.13.
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