The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[CharismaticLady]

I'm curious your answer to this part:



And why would you separate "grace" from Christ?

God's grace is His favor towards us in giving us Christ. It is Jesus Christ in us that makes every difference, and without Him, we have nothing.

Much love!

After all our posts, what in the world makes you think I believe grace is separate from Christ, when it has everything to do with Christ? Grace is Christ in us! His power! His sinlessness! His supernatural gifts!

All this time, you believe I'm crazy???

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1 John 1:8 does not say what you think it does. It is referring to indwelling sin; not practical sins.

It does not say that if we say that we do not sin anymore, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. if it did, it would be contradicting 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17.

It is saying that we all have sin. That is, the element of sin dwells on the inside of all of us.

However, this element can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominiion over us (Romans 6:14).

As for 1 John 1:10, it is saying that we all have sinned in the past, not necessarily that we will sin in the present or the future; neither that sin is inevitable as goes a certain heresy existing in the church today.

1 John 1:8 does not say what you think it does. It is referring to indwelling sin; not practical sins.

It does not say that if we say that we do not sin anymore, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. if it did, it would be contradicting 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17.

It is saying that we all have sin. That is, the element of sin dwells on the inside of all of us.

However, this element can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominiion over us (Romans 6:14).

As for 1 John 1:10, it is saying that we all have sinned in the past, not necessarily that we will sin in the present or the future; neither that sin is inevitable as goes a certain heresy existing in the church today.

Hope this helps.

What this helps is letting me know as a Bible College teacher, I would flunk you if this was a test. You didn't study, you didn't research and just spouted off answers that are not supported by Scripture!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

YES!

I knew it wouldn't be hard for you to do!

So how long have you now lived without sinning one time in thought, word, deed.

And what do ou say to a believer who does commit a sin.

 

[marks]

After all our posts, what in the world makes you think I believe grace is separate from Christ, when it has everything to do with Christ? Grace is Christ in us! His power! His sinlessness! His supernatural gifts!

All this time, you believe I'm crazy???

So then, you are in agreement, that God's grace towards us is His favor shown by giving us Jesus?

In the past you've spoken in terms of Grace being God's power given to man, something like that. That Grace is something God gives to us that is of itself efficacious within us.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

What this helps is letting me know as a Bible College teacher, I would flunk you if this was a test. You didn't study, you didn't research and just spouted off answers that are not supported by Scripture!

It is in fact supported by scripture; however you do not accept the scriptures in question as being valid; because you have a preconceived point of view that colors your understanding.

If you were my Bible College teacher, I would choose to find my education elsewhere and would consider that you flunking me is in fact persecution for righteousness' sake.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus; while the common people heard Him gladly.

I have done much study on this issue.

The specific words that are used lend to the understanding that indwelling sin is the issue in 1 John 1:8; while practical sin is the issue in 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 2:17.

 

[marks]

After all our posts, what in the world makes you think I believe grace is separate from Christ, when it has everything to do with Christ? Grace is Christ in us! His power! His sinlessness! His supernatural gifts!

All this time, you believe I'm crazy???

I'm curious your answer to this part:

marks said: ↑
I'm curious, what does this passage mean to you?

Ephesians 4
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then, you are in agreement, that God's grace towards us is His favor shown by giving us Jesus?

No. It IS the power of Christ, because it is Christ in us. "Unmerited favor" - if that's what you believe grace is - is only in the sense that grace is given when we admit we are sinners and unworthy, so in that sense it is unmerited favor, but grace, itself, is not unmerited favor. It is "divine power."

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the ]corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm curious your answer to this part:

marks said: ↑
I'm curious, what does this passage mean to you?

Ephesians 4
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

If someone is still being drawn by the Father to Christ, but has not yet fully surrendered, they are not yet born again. They still have the old man, and need to repent so they may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many in the Church are in that same situation today. As I've said, that was me for the first 30 years of going to church. I wasn't born again. WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Because without holiness, no man shall see God. And we can't be holy if we are still being controlled by the old sinful carnal nature. But even after being born again, we still have free will to go against our new nature, thus Paul's command to not quench the Spirit.

 

[marks]

No. It IS the power of Christ, because it is Christ in us. "Unmerited favor" - if that's what you believe grace is - is only in the sense that grace is given when we admit we are sinners and unworthy, so in that sense it is unmerited favor, but grace, itself, is not unmerited favor. It is "divine power."

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the ]corruption that is in the world through lust.

The power is Jesus in me. Not a separate "power" I receive that is mine own.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,

Much love!

 

[marks]

If someone is still being drawn by the Father to Christ, but has not yet fully surrendered, they are not yet born again. They still have the old man, and need to repent so they may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many in the Church are in that same situation today. As I've said, that was me for the first 30 years of going to church. I wasn't born again. WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Because without holiness, no man shall see God. And we can't be holy if we are still being controlled by the old sinful carnal nature. But even after being born again, we still have free will to go against our new nature, thus Paul's command to not quench the Spirit.

OK, so then to you, this is being born again, this is correct?

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness

Putting on the new man is to be born again?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

The power is Jesus in me. Not a separate "power" I receive that is mine own.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,

Much love!

Of course it becomes your own.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

OK, so then to you, this is being born again, this is correct?

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness

Putting on the new man is to be born again?

Much love!

Yes, our nature is born again, and called the new man. The flesh was the old man. Galatians 5:19-21

 

[CharismaticLady]

I knew it wouldn't be hard for you to do!

So how long have you now lived without sinning one time in thought, word, deed.

And what do ou say to a believer who does commit a sin.

A long time. It is quite easy. All you have to do is never do anything against your super-sensitized by the Holy Spirit conscience. It would be very uncomfortable for me to go against my conscience. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Trying to keep all the commandments through a sin nature is very hard, because you are keeping them against your nature. But when your nature is born again to hate sin and love righteousness, you do righteousness naturally. No struggle to go against your will.

If we commit trespasses against each other, we just need to constantly stay in a state of forgiving others their trespasses against you. Then your own trespasses are automatically forgiven. Matthew 6:14-15. Trespasses can be so unintentional that you don't even know you've committed one, Leviticus 5:15, so you really can't confess what you don't know. What I do if someone does something against me, I remain quiet and not exacerbate the problem. Then I forgive them.

 

[marks]

Yes, our nature is born again, and called the new man. The flesh was the old man. Galatians 5:19-21

OK, thank you!

Let's put it back into it's context . . .

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

God has been teaching us regarding growing up into Christ, and building each other in love.

And then tells us to not walk as the gentiles, that you put all that off, and put on the new man.

So isn't God saying this to people who already are born again?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ok so you failed to answer my question, and your answer makes no sense in light of my question

once again, can you name people who think God can not see their sin?

ROFL There are millions! Whole denominations are under this false doctrine.

 

[CharismaticLady]

OK, thank you!

Let's put it back into it's context . . .

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

God has been teaching us regarding growing up into Christ, and building each other in love.

And then tells us to not walk as the gentiles, that you put all that off, and put on the new man.

So isn't God saying this to people who already are born again?

Much love!

When we are born again, the divine nature hates sin, so sin is no longer the problem. It is fruit that is the issue.

Here is what I wrote to Christophany:

Yes, we have to mature the fruit of the Spirit. To become perfect and mature, we need to follow the steps Peter sited in 2 Peter 1:5-7. The number one fruit of the Spirit is LOVE. It is the most important fruit. And the last step in maturing to perfection is LOVE. The final goal.

Read John 15.

Talk to you later.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A long time. It is quite easy. All you have to do is never do anything against your super-sensitized by the Holy Spirit conscience. It would be very uncomfortable for me to go against my conscience. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Trying to keep all the commandments through a sin nature is very hard, because you are keeping them against your nature. But when your nature is born again to hate sin and love righteousness, you do righteousness naturally. No struggle to go against your will.

If we commit trespasses against each other, we just need to constantly stay in a state of forgiving others their trespasses against you. Then your own trespasses are automatically forgiven. Matthew 6:14-15. Trespasses can be so unintentional that you don't even know you've committed one, Leviticus 5:15, so you really can't confess what you don't know. What I do if someone does something against me, I remain quiet and not exacerbate the problem. Then I forgive them.

How Ironic! You say you have not committed any offense in thought word or deed for a long time, but yet you also say that some offenses are so unintentional you may not evenknow you committed a sin!

And you still didn't answer the question, what happens when a believer sins?

Do you think they lose their salvation? Is there repentance and resaving for them? what????????

 

[justbyfaith]

ROFL There are millions! Whole denominations are under this false doctrine.

How does such a doctrine find sway if it is not biblically viable?

It seems to me that it would be rejected out of hand if there were no biblical support for it.

 

[DaChaser]

When you repent of a sin, do you go back to the same sin?

there are sins that the Lord has taken away from me, thank God, other areas that still are a fight....

 

[marks]

Of course it becomes your own.

I would disagree with this.

God's power is revealed in me, not given to me, as if I become a creature with power independant of God.

Much love!