The false doctrines of Men.

[marks]

You know the Bible is not Jesus, right? Cause, John 17:17 is talking about Jesus.
Even if it was referring to scripture - it is not an exclusive statement.

Psalm 119.89 is referring to Jesus, unless you believe the Bible came down from Heaven and died for your sins.

Psalm 119.105 is not exclusively talking about a book.

John 21:25

Hi Aspen,

If, when the Bible says, word, word of God, like that, If everytime it says that it means Jesus, How does the Bible refer to itself?

Much love!
mark

 

[aspen]

Hi Aspen,

If, when the Bible says, word, word of God, like that, If everytime it says that it means Jesus, How does the Bible refer to itself?

Much love!
mark

Scriptures is often used. I am not saying that every phrase Word of God is a reference to Christ rather than the Bible, but I can’t think of any example off hand

 

[marks]

Scriptures is often used. I am not saying that every phrase Word of God is a reference to Christ rather than the Bible, but I can’t think of any example off hand

So like in Revelation 20:4,

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

In this case, as Jesus and "the word of God" are named separately, Jesus is Jesus, and the word of God is the Bible?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

the word of God is the Bible

The Bible alone is dead...mass produced words on paper pages that contain no life without the Spirit. Is the “word of God” not Spirit and cannot be contained or withheld of man within a bound book. He said the word or God is not bound.
2 Timothy 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

neither is the resurrected Christ.

Can not the Spirit “the word of God” come to any man apart from the Bible in the Revelation of Jesus Christ which is resurrection life.

Deuteronomy 30:19
[19] I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Consider Life and blessing are listed together as the same. as cursing and death are the same. As are Christ and the expressed word come to us from the Father.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

“...for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.” Is this, the deep things the Spirit searches not the love expressed to us through the Son? Isn’t the volume of Him?

Jeremiah 21:8
[8] And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the Lord ; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.

The way of life being ‘the witness of Jesus’ unto resurrected life which is the established fulfillment of the Word.

Spirit: life and blessing.

 

[marks]

The Bible alone is dead...

Hi ViJ,

Are we talking about the same thing? I was commenting on how the Bible might refer to itself.

Much love!
mark

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi ViJ,

Are we talking about the same thing? I was commenting on how the Bible might refer to itself.

Much love!
mark

Maybe not then. Was commenting on “Bible” or “the word of God”. Thought you were suggesting Christ and the word of God are separate, did I misunderstand?

 

[marks]

Maybe not then. Was commenting on “Bible” or “the word of God”. Thought you were suggesting Christ and the word of God are separate, did I misunderstand?

I was responding to @aspen who was saying, or so I thought, that the "word of God" was always Jesus. But I think the Bible refers to itself also the word of God.

Much love!

 

[CoreIssue]

Word meaning is so important.

Like here, I see references to word and Word with efforts to equate them and missdefine them.

The meaning of word is simply language, written or spoken.

But the meaning of Word is not language. It is the Greek word that means the reason for an behind all things.

So the second person of the Trinity is the logos, not Jesus.

John says the logos took on flesh at the incarnation. The flesh never was the logos. It is simply the vessel the second person of the Trinity used.

So the Logos is the reason behind the word of God.
What do John 1:1,14 mean when they declare that Jesus is the Word of God?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But I think the Bible refers to itself

Didn’t mean to intrude in your response to Aspen. you raised some good thoughts that perhaps align with “the false doctrines of men” or the “the doctrine of God” which Jesus said was not the Son’s but The doctrine of the Father who sent Him.

Not disagreeing but if I understood you correctly: you said the word doesn’t always mean Jesus...but sometimes the Bible refers to itself ...if by “Bible” you mean “the word of God” sometimes refers to itself” consider:
John 16:12-14
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:26
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Does the Word of God that proceeds from the Father testify, not of itself but of Jesus Christ. Does not the word of God that proceeds from the Father testify not of itself, but of Life. Jesus said the ‘Spirit of Truth’ will receive of mine and show you things. Things they were not able to bear yet.

What does this “spirit of truth”
have to do with the false doctrines of men that we should beware of? That persuade away from the simplicity of Christ.

1 John 4:5-6
[5] They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. [6] We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Spirit of truth
Spirit of error..
As much as the spirit of truth is ‘spirit’; so is the spirit of error also spirit(the spirit warned against). the false spirit we are warned against in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him .

Another Jesus
Another spirit
The spirit of error
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
^isn't another Jesus already here?

 

[marks]

Didn’t mean to intrude in your response to Aspen. you raised some good thoughts that perhaps align with “the false doctrines of men” or the “the doctrine of God” which Jesus said was not the Son’s but The doctrine of the Father who sent Him.

Not disagreeing but if I understood you correctly: you said the word doesn’t always mean Jesus...but sometimes the Bible refers to itself ...if by “Bible” you mean “the word of God” sometimes refers to itself” consider:

Hi ViJ,

Aspen was saying where we read "word of God", this means Jesus.

Here's an example of what I am saying:

Mark 7:11-13
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I don't see this as Jesus saying they were making Himself of none effect, I think Jesus meant that they were making the Bible of no effect, what God had said in the Scriptures.

Hopefully that helps.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

“making the word of God” of none effect (IMO) is making it profit the flesh. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

notice is “profitable” for the doctrine of God and not the doctrines of men? Profitable —given by inspiration of God—given of the Holy Spirit...for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. The flesh profits nothing ...He said His words are Spirit, they are Life.

“Making the word of God of none effect” wouldn’t that be the false doctrines of men which come to nothing. That hold no power. Will power maybe...doubtfully will power is the power Paul spoke of in
1 Corinthians 4:19-21 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

The spirit of error that had already went out into the world; we are warned against this another Jesus—the spirit of error consider “I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”

Beguiled with what? Vanity. Pride. Desire. Greed for more. -by this you will know the spirit of error, the another Jesus when preached “so your minds should be corrupted (Romans 8:20-21)
from the simplicity that is in Christ.”

Vanity=the bondage of corruption.
Simplicity that is in Christ being Matthew 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The word is Jesus? The word was made flesh but the word says we know Him no more after the flesh: the Word being resurrection Spirit and power and truth. Not the error of the serpent in drawing others away after another Jesus speaking great words of blasphemy against the Spirit of Truth(God’s doctrine) in leading many under the bondage of corruption after vanity.


The simplicity of Christ: “learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”

 

[Jay Ross]

So like in Revelation 20:4,

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

In this case, as Jesus and "the word of God" are named separately, Jesus is Jesus, and the word of God is the Bible?

Much love!

Thanks Marks, your post highlighted and confirmed the commonality of this portion of Revelation.20:4 with Daniel.7:9-10 and Isaiah. 24:21 for me and if you had quoted verse 2 and 4 it would have also confirmed Isaiah.24:22

Shalom

 

[CNKW3]

Of course that is true. Unfortunately, this too is misunderstood and has become the doctrines of men also, in much the same ways as the law.

If was Jesus, the Word, who clarified the proper perspective to have toward the scriptures, saying, "My words are spirit." Thus, the spirit of God is the source of all truth wherein there is no misinterpretation, but One Truth. Whereas, it is the written word and man's interpretations that are the cause of many lies regarding God.

Are you saying the Spirit speaks to you directly apart from the Bible and that the Bible is the cause of many lies?

 

[CNKW3]

SOLA SCRIPTURA?!

It’s not even in the Bible

Oh the irony....

2 Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
You want to be thoroughly furnished unto all good works? Read the Bible. Now show me where you can get it from any other source.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Where does sound doctrine and truth come from? The Bible. The only source.
John 17:17
The Bible is the only source of Christ’s words today and the only way to comply with Peter.....
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;
....Is to give book, chapter, and verse for what you teach.

 

[CNKW3]

On point Scott,
1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

PICJAG.

So I guess the Spirit speaks directly to you too, apart from the word? You know this would make what you say divine, right? Are we now to believe we have divinely inspired individuals today? Crazy stuff. No wonder Christianity is so confused. There is now no standard for anything.

 

[101G]

So I guess the Spirit speaks directly to you too

first thanks for the response, second, don't guess, KNOW. don't he speak "directly" to you, are you not one of his children?

You know this would make what you say divine

the scripture are divine. we suggest you read our post again.

Are we now to believe we have divinely inspired individuals today?

You say, 2 Corinthians 4:13 "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak".

Crazy stuff.

1 Corinthians 1:23 "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men".

1 Corinthians 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe". so, yes, it crazy stuff to them who believe not.

No wonder Christianity is so confused

now you said something there, but not "Christians", maybe the religion Christianity, but not a "Christian". (smile).

There is now no standard for anything.

another error on your part, the standard is "Holiness". be ye holy for I AM Holy.

PICJAG.

 

[CNKW3]

The Bible alone is dead...mass produced words on paper pages that contain no life without the Spirit.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Our only source for the word today is the Bible.

Is the “word of God” not Spirit and cannot be contained or withheld of man within a bound book. He said the word or God is not bound.
2 Timothy 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

neither is the resurrected Christ.

I think what Paul was saying was that even though he was bound in prison the word of God would still be spread. Not that the word would not be contained in a book.

Can not the Spirit “the word of God” come to any man apart from the Bible in the Revelation of Jesus Christ which is resurrection life.

No, because then that would make God the author of confusion which he is not 1 Cor 14:33. Your reasoning is why we have 1000 different denominations teaching different stuff. Nothing but confusion.
The word (which we today have only through the Bible) is the power of God through the Spirit. Who gave us the Bible? The Spirit. Jesus said....
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
The only place we get these words are from the Bible. Let’s let Jesus give us more understanding...
When the Sadducees came to Jesus to question him, here is how he responded...
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
He is scolding them for not knowing the book. The scriptures. When the devil kept tempting Jesus, how did he respond? IT IS WRITTEN. But your doctrine says “it is written” is not enough.

 

[CNKW3]

first thanks for the response, second, don't guess, KNOW. don't he speak "directly" to you, are you not one of his children?

yes, he told me to preach to you because you are lost.

the scripture are divine. we suggest you read our post again.

No, if the Spirit speaks directly to you, you are also inspired.
If not, why not?

You say, 2 Corinthians 4:13 "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak".

Doesn’t this passage say... “according as it is written”?

1 Corinthians 1:23 "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men".

1 Corinthians 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe". so, yes, it crazy stuff to them who believe not.

These verses prove nothing. They only talk about preaching. Preaching what? What are you going to preach? Your words or the words from the book?
You can preach all you want but that doesn’t make it true.
Paul also said....
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
The only way to prove truth today is by book, chapter and verse.
If not then it is just your word against mine. Good luck getting anywhere with that.
Why were the Bereans more noble? Because they searched the book daily to prove what Paul was saying. Acts 17:11

another error on your part, the standard is "Holiness". be ye holy for I AM Holy.

PICJAG.

how do you know what’s holy without the book? The truth is you don’t. You can’t be holy without reading and knowing the book.

 

[101G]

yes, he told me to preach to you because you are lost.

according to you,I'm lost, thank God you're not God..., and what are you preaching?

No, if the Spirit speaks directly to you, you are also inspired.
If not, why not?

you say....

Doesn’t this passage say... “according as it is written”?

is it not?.

These verses prove nothing. They only talk about preaching. Preaching what? What are you going to preach? Your words or the words from the book?

to you maybe not... LOL, Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith".

how do you know what’s holy without the book? The truth is you don’t. You can’t be holy without reading and knowing the book.

Just like VJ said, the bible is DEAD without the Spirit.
Just like Adam the first man DEAD until God blew the breath of Life into him.

so what are you preaching dead man?

PICJAG.

 

[CNKW3]

according to you,I'm lost, thank God you're not God..., and what are you preaching?

you say....

is it not?.

to you maybe not... LOL, Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith".

Just like VJ said, the bible is DEAD without the Spirit.
Just like Adam the first man DEAD until God blew the breath of Life into him.

so what are you preaching dead man?

PICJAG.

The entire question is this? Where does the Spirit come from? Does the Spirit come to you through the reading, studying, or someone preaching to you the word? Or does it come to you directly apart from the word. Easy question to answer. You can quote VJ all you want but I know he is not inspired. You post Rom 1. How do you or anybody else ever learn about the gospel? Through the Spirit given book. There is no other way. That is what I am preaching. You seem to be preaching different.