The False Doctrines with OTHER key words

[bbyrd009]

I think you've been making some assumptions about me that aren't correct.

As if this is all I have in mind?

ha i have no idea really, marks, but i dont think ppl who believe in Death More Abundantly are much interested in life, more abundantly, as a rule? What does light have to do with darkness?
they will surely make noises in that direction, but our actions tell the tale right
.

I'd hardly know. This "cult of sol" seems to be something that means something to you, but has nothing to do with my beliefs.

ok then

This comes across to me as merely an ongoing denigration.

ah, well, i dunno; it was said of the Mithraist I have not seen such faith in anyone of Israel?

I don't think you can, not from the Bible. I imagine you are thinking of Ezekiel 18, or 30. But that's not what it says.

ah, so

Are you thinking that I'm just repeated things I've been told or read in commentaries or something?

i dont know, marks; but you do speak in satan's dialectic, "it's like this, it's like that," so you tell me

 

[justbyfaith]

@bbyrd009 is worthy of being ignored most of the time.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think what this discussion serves to illustrate is the difference between theory and application.

You cannot accurately say that someone who is born again will never have the inclination to commit intentional sin, and then say, with that same accuracy, that they might commit intentional sin, and will be condemned because of it. Either you can or you can't.

If you claim that "unintentional sins" will be forgiven IF you forgive others, well, forgiving or not forgiving is a choice, so not forgiving isn't something the born again person would do, if they didn't ever commit intentional sin. So this is moot. You will always be forgiving.

We still have free will. It is just that the Holy Spirit makes the conviction so sensitive that you won't want to sin, but that doesn't mean you can't grieve or even quench the Spirit. Don't forget you are not born again unless you have the indwelling Holy Spirit; and you can't quench the Spirit if He is not inside you. Thus, a born again Christian willfully sinning.

 

[bbyrd009]

pretty sure im swimming in sin, myself
yeh

@bbyrd009

oh cmon jbf we're all hypocrites lol i made a categorical statement and you chose to take it the way you did ok bro? And the hypocrisy imo is not in believing whatever it is that youd rather not answer questions about--completely your business--but in teaching it as Absolute Truth

@bbyrd009 is worthy of being ignored most of the time.

probably

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you thinking that I'm just repeated things I've been told or read in commentaries or something?

pretty much all i do btw
narf

As if this is all I have in mind?

reflect frankly upon the difference in allure of a "forever" Eden of no cares and virgins, tomorrow, v a more abundant life today, and i think the frame kind of clarifies a little maybe. i mean which would you choose lol
so, yes

we prolly all seek to get rewarded for what you should have been doing anyway
dont you think?

 

[marks]

ha i have no idea really, marks, but i dont think ppl who believe in Death More Abundantly are much interested in life, more abundantly, as a rule?

I think people who have the expectation of resurrection in Christ, are much more interested in life abundant in Christ.

ah, so

Yes, that is so. You've never supported this statement, you just keep repeating it, and it's not accurate.

 

[marks]

reflect frankly upon the difference in allure of a "forever" Eden of no cares and virgins, tomorrow, v a more abundant life today, and i think the frame kind of clarifies a little maybe. i mean which would you choose lol
so, yes

I will leave such fantastical reflections to you.

Eternal life is knowing God. We can know God now, and forever. Do you want to? Do you think you can?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

I think people who have the expectation of resurrection in Christ, are much more interested in life abundant in Christ.

hmm well i think if that were so then they would be recognizing their death at baptism?
i think they are much more interested in professing all the yack that they "know" about becoming immortals, tomorrow, but what do i know. Guess we could always judge their declarations and see right

Yes, that is so. You've never supported this statement, you just keep repeating it, and it's not accurate.

but it is Scripture marks, regardless of whether our scribes have altered it or no; it is in more than one place, too. And note that i am not here stating it as Absolute Truth and telling you that you have to believe it or goto hell or anything either, ok, you can believe it has meaning, x2, you can ignore it, you can insist "it's not accurate" whatever that means, ok with me, but imo the Scripture is not going to change;
No son of man may die for another's sins; the life/soul that sins, dies
Eloi Eloi, lama sebechthani?
and if you choose to believe that you might become an immortal when "Jesus comes to take you away" then i have no objections to that either, ok

I will leave such fantastical reflections to you.

so again you dont want to answer the question, and would rather infer that i have lost my mind or something, fine

Eternal life is knowing God. We can know God now, and forever. Do you want to? Do you think you can?

have a nice day marks, and you might look up the Scriptural def of "eternal" whenever you are ready. Or dont, i have no investment in that, it is entirely up to you, who feels compelled to profess Captain Obvious Deepisms at me, prolly forty years your elder ok. I wish you the best. (Santa Claus is coming to town )

 

[marks]

And you avoided the q e

Which did you have in mind?

 

[marks]

but it is Scripture marks, regardless of whether our scribes have altered it or no;

So it's there, but it was changed?

OK.

 

[bbyrd009]

Which did you have in mind?

the part you skipped over, right where that quote was
have a nice day ok

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Indwelling sin is not something that we do. It is a state of being.

We all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8). I think that the verb used in relation to sin is a factor in the definition that we might have for sin in this instance.

The element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it has no longer any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

If we abide in Christ we sin not (1 John 3:6) and if we are born again we "do not" and "cannot" sin (1 John 3:9).

If, in 1 John 1:8, it is talking about practical sins, there is a contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and the verses that I just referenced and spoke about.



Yet in Hebrews 10:26-31, this very concept is established concerning willfully sinning against the Lord.

This will be my last post to you! I cannot hold an honest discussion when I have to not discuss Scripture with you but you rideas about what you think Scripture means.

YOU are so confused about teh old man, the new man, teh difference between the old man and the new man.

Teh new man does not sin, and cannot sin. but the old man does nothing but sin, and at times even you fall prey to the decpetions of the old man. Then you add sin to sin, by denyiong you sinned or finding som eway to not even call you r sins a sin. YOU may have the last post if you wish. I shall pray for you that Gpod opens your eyes.

 

[justbyfaith]

This will be my last post to you! I cannot hold an honest discussion when I have to not discuss Scripture with you but you rideas about what you think Scripture means.

YOU are so confused about teh old man, the new man, teh difference between the old man and the new man.

Teh new man does not sin, and cannot sin. but the old man does nothing but sin, and at times even you fall prey to the decpetions of the old man. Then you add sin to sin, by denyiong you sinned or finding som eway to not even call you r sins a sin. YOU may have the last post if you wish. I shall pray for you that Gpod opens your eyes.

To say that when we sin, it is not all of us that sins, but only our flesh, reeks of gnosticism.

Gnosticism teaches that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because the real "us" isn't sinning when we sin sins of the flesh.

This appears to also be what you are teaching.

It is therefore sad that that was your last post to me; because now you do not have the opportunity to answer for yourself as to how your statements do not actually coincide with the gnostic beliefs that I have just revealed to you.

I will say that when the "old man" and/or "the flesh" sins, that it is all of me that sins.

And if the "new man" or the "spirit" does not sin, it is all of me that does not sin.

 

[marks]

To say that when we sin, it is not all of us that sins, but only our flesh, reeks of gnosticism.

Gnosticism teaches that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because the real "us" isn't sinning when we sin sins of the flesh.

Set aside Gnosticism for a moment, I get your point, though that's not really what this is about. That God created everything might remind you of Hinduism, and Brahma, God is not an hindu God.

But this is what Scripture says, plainly, in Romans 7. Therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me.

Identifying yourself - the spirit child of God - with the man of sin is, in my estimation, a mistake, and, I think, generally causes people to ascribe things that aren't true.

I believe that when I am not living in an active reliance on God, walking in the Spirit, experiencing the fruit of the Spirit, well, I may be walking according to the flesh, which may even have a certain resemblence to the mind of Christ, though putting it to the test proves whether the mind of the flesh or the mind of Christ is actually ruling the body.

God declares that we have been created - our new creation, the new man - we have been created in God's pattern, in righteousness and true holiness. I believe that to be true.

God teaches us that we are new creations, that all is now new, and now all is from God. I believe that to be true.

And God teaches is that sin is no longer what I am doing, rather, when there is sin, I am not the one truly committing it, rather, sin still lives in me, specifically in my body of flesh, corrupted by sin.

So I am not condemned by my sin. I have no more stain of sin, Hallelujah!!!!! No More Stain!!!! Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!

And at anytime that I do sin, I can be reminded, Jesus has set me free, and sanctification is increasing as He increases in me. As I gaze into Him with the purity in innocence He's given to me. As He shines into my heart with no impediment.

At anytime I do sin, I believe it is because my faith in God has faltered, my eyes got pulled onto the waves, instead of simply walking in obedience regardless of how things look. The moment we think 'this may not work out right' and start entertaining other avenues, leaving a total trust, starting to consider for ourselves how to make this work out right, in that moment we've started allowing that old flesh mind to run thoughts through the brain.

And if we don't recognize that, and take those thoughts captive, we may find ourselves in sin. The flesh mind, if it's not going overboard, can sound just like us, in fact, that used to be us.

Renewing the mind is to learn about God, about Jesus, and as we come to understand Him better, to know Him more, we see more clearly where we don't match up, and we put that off, to put Him on.

Walking in the Spirit is what our spirit by virtue of it's nature does. If we are not experiencing in our lives the fruit of the Spirit, then we are not walking in the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, let's start there.

There is something that I know that whenever I hold this in mind, I am flooded immediately with love, and joy, and peace, even when circumstances are very difficult, painful, confusing. But that love and joy and peace is constant, as I hold this truth in mind. I am reconciled to God.

Let's add self-control to our list.

When I have in mind, in my heart, that truth, I am reconciled to God, and as I believe it - be it to you according to your faith - as I believe in His reconciliation, my heart, my mind, spring open wide to Him. God has redeemed me, and I am His. He made me because He wants me, and sin doesn't change that, He fixed that. Because He wants what He wants, and He wants you, and me, and all of us who will have Him.

In my faith that God has returned me to Him, and that He is restoring me to His original design, is my salvation, and also my access into the grace in which I stand. The faith that Jesus' death and resurrection are sufficient, and I am reconciled to God.

And along with the love and joy and peace that floods into me, there is also that self-control, as the Spirit controls, simply by leading us through a much better life.

Sorry for the length . . . I kind of 'launched' there. But I do think this is of paramount importance to understand to live the most abundant life we can.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I do believe that if we put on the new man, it is a behaviour that we are putting on; and in putting off the old man we are putting off a behaviour.

Romans 6:6 is very much the scripture that for me interprets Romans 7:14-25.

It is no longer I who sin, but sin that dwells within me...but if I am born again, the old man is crucified and the body of sin is destroyed within me.

So, it ought not even to be sin dwelling in me that sins...indwelling sin should have been dealt with when you were born again.

Made dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

 

[marks]

I do believe that if we put on the new man, it is a behaviour that we are putting on; and in putting off the old man we are putting off a behaviour.

Not a behavior, though that is also instructed. Put off lying, and anger and malice and wrath, and speak the truth with each other. Put on compassion and mercy, these are all behaviors, yes.

But we're also told to put off the old man, and put on the new man. That new man is the new creation itself. Put on the new man, which is created after God in righteousness and true holiness.

Two key doctrines towards are role in our sanctification are putting off the old man and his works to put on the new man and his works, and, renewing our minds. Learning to think the new way, according to the new man, which is according to God. Putting on Christ.

Much more than behaviors, thoughts, and attitude, perspectives, emotions, our hopes, our desires, our rest.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

When we put on the new man, we put on a behaviour of walking according to the new nature in our practical lives.

Thus, when the new man is "on", we will not be sinning with our spirit...and neither will we be sinning with our flesh.

What is at stake here is that men may decide to make excuses for their sins by saying that it was their flesh that was sinning but that the "real me" was not sinning.

Thus a man might sin and yet not be sinning; because his new nature has no part in the behaviour.

It gives the man a free license to sin with the flesh by saying that I am not really sinning when I sin with the flesh...

That the new man is holy and righteous even when the whole of my person is involved in an active sin in my life.

Because the reality is that when my flesh sins, all of me is sinning.

Sin that dwells in me is doing the sinning and it is not really me, in Romans 7:14-25?

If I am born again, the old man is crucified and the body of sin is destroyed within me (Romans 6:6).

And therefore, if I am born again, sin within me is not going to sin; for it has been put to death.

Therefore I can no longer excuse myself by saying that it is sin within me that is doing the sinning...I am held responsible for the fact that I have not dealt with sin in my life so that the old man is crucified and the body of sin is destroyed (Romans 6:6).

 

[amadeus]

we prolly all seek to get rewarded for what you should have been doing anyway
dont you think?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

 

[amadeus]

I think people who have the expectation of resurrection in Christ, are much more interested in life abundant in Christ.

But... many people use the phrase "life abundant in Christ" with reference to their hoped for rewards. Do they look more to a Resurrection than to being close to the One they are supposed to love above all things? What then is their expectation? A reward or rewards?

Did we only marry our wives because of what she could give us or did we love them for who they were... even though they were really in abject poverty and not only in money?

Do we love God more than we love our spouse?

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." John 15:12

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved" Eph 2:4-5

"We love him, because he first loved us." I John 4:19

 

[marks]

But... many people use the phrase "life abundant in Christ" with reference to their hoped for rewards. Do they look more to a Resurrection than to being close to the One they are supposed to love above all things? What then is their expectation? A reward or rewards?

I don't know about many people, and I think there are people of all descriptions. But that doesn't change what the Bible teaches, does it?

What I believe, practice, and teach, is that we may have through faith in Christ that abundance of life that comes with sharing God's life, through Christ.

This is eternal life, knowing God, and is ours now by faith in Christ. By that very same faith, in the completed work of Christ, our reconciliation to God, we are able to stand in God's grace, enjoying in abundance love, and joy, and peace, and self-control, and all the fruit of the Spirit. By that same faith, in our full reconciliation to God, our hearts and minds open to Him, to receive from Him all He desires for us.

Much love!