The False Doctrines with OTHER key words

[Nancy]

Thus, God's chastisement of getting a ticket!

Have not had a ticket in many years and plan to keep it that way. It is easy to follow the rules of the road! I now think in terms of being patient, when driving as God could be allowing me to avoid an accident up ahead if I speed, or coast through a stop sign. He has convicted me of it as, I could hurt others by my own negligence. So, now...I am so very aware of those around me and remain calm. I no longer try to fly through a stale yellow light, I (well, pretty much, anyhow ...do not coast through Stop signs) but there are times I will very early in the A.M. when I'm the only one on the road. I know, still breaking the law of "the land".

 

[marks]

Thus, God's chastisement of getting a ticket!

Again, this seems like an inconsistency. Does a born again Christian actually break the traffic laws? I thought you considered that unthinkable that a Christian would roll up to a stop sign, glance around for a cop, and, seeing none, roll on through without a full stop. Only if they did it without realizing, like if the sign was behind a tree and they really didn't see it.

?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Christians are just asking for trouble if they become unequally yoked, or do not part ways with old carnal friends. Or if they become involved with a church whose teacher starts teaching a false doctrine that sounds wonderful, but only makes a person slack in their convictions. Like OSAS.

This doesn't answer my post, it only disparages my view.

"OSAS only makes a person slack in their convictions."

I ask concerning an inconsistency, and you come back with an Ad Hominem. Does that seem like a reasonable response in a discussion?

You've consistently said that the born again person does not have sinful desires. Is that not so? Is this not what you teach?

marks said: ↑

It seems to me there is a real inconsistency with your thinking here. IF these were born again, and being born again, you have no more desire to sin, then how are the described as . . .

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

These are the born again, who no longer have any desires for sin?

How do you reconcile this?

~~~~~~~~
Do you not have an actual answer to this? Somethings to think about.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Christ died for our sins prolly does not mean what we are taught, to say the least

Not knowing what you were taught, I couldn't say. And I'm not sure you really know what I say it means, I don't know how much you actually pay attention to what I write.

So I'm not sure how I'd answer whether it does or not, just the same,

What does it mean to you?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

You commit the standard error so many people unfamiliar with Scripture do.

ROFL Stated by someone studying the scripture daily as I do. But you have some preconceived ideas that color your perception of interpretation, and instead of letting truth from the Spirit speak for itself, you twist the scriptures to fit your truth of a false doctrine. It is a common mistake, especially if you believe in OSAS. I don't know you or your posts well enough to assume you are that crazy, but many on the forums know nothing else.

What happens if a believer quenches the Spirit? The Bible makes it abundantly clear! When a child of God sins- they break fellowship with God! Their relationship is still a child of God, but they are being a disobedient child of God!

It almost appears that you do not understand the difference between a believers position in Christ and a believers daily experience in Christ! I know part of this is because you do not go past the English to look at the original verbs.

But even our English Bibles clearly show that once we become a child of God- it is forever! God doesn't save us, then toss us out, then take us back, then toss us out etc.etc.etc. He knew before He created the universe His children and not.

There is a difference between quenching the Spirit, and merely grieving the Spirit. Grieving the Spirit is no small thing but has to do with anger, bitterness and unforgivness; whereas quenching the Spirit has to do with total apostasy. Those who commit apostasy once sanctified, there is no way they can be allowed repentance.

Hebrews 6:
Therefore, leaving behind the elementary teachings about the Messiah, let us continue to be carried along to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead actions, faith toward God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits.

4 For it is impossible to keep on restoring to repentance time and again people who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have become partners with the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of God’s word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify the Son of God to their own detriment by exposing him to public ridicule. 7 For when the ground soaks up rain that often falls on it and continues producing vegetation useful to those for whom it is cultivated, it receives a blessing from God. 8 However, if it continues to produce thorns and thistles, it is worthless and in danger of being cursed, and in the end will be burned.

When Jesus rose all your sin was future! So this concept that after you are saved, Jesus blood did not pay fo rthose sins is a blasphemous lie! Nowhere will you find in the word that Jesus died for only a certain amount of your sins! Instead you will find that you were HIs enemy and He died for you and now that you are no longer an enemy- You are recipient of the "much mores" of God I posted to you earlier!

YOUr concept of god is too stingy and unloving compared to the god who is and declared in His Word!

All your sins were future? That old wives tale? 2 Peter 1:9 shows that it was only our past sins that were cleansed once and for all. God does not look back at them ever again. But with the power of the Spirit He gives us at that time, there should be no expectation that you will ever sin willfully again.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Again, this seems like an inconsistency. Does a born again Christian actually break the traffic laws? I thought you considered that unthinkable that a Christian would roll up to a stop sign, glance around for a cop, and, seeing none, roll on through without a full stop. Only if they did it without realizing, like if the sign was behind a tree and they really didn't see it.

?

Much love!

Don't you think you should be speaking to Nancy about this? Especially if you believe it is unforgivable? I don't happen to think it is, just a lack of self-control.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This doesn't answer my post, it only disparages my view.

"OSAS only makes a person slack in their convictions."

I ask concerning an inconsistency, and you come back with an Ad Hominem. Does that seem like a reasonable response in a discussion?

You've consistently said that the born again person does not have sinful desires. Is that not so? Is this not what you teach?

I disparage false doctrines.

Then do you believe a born again Christian has sinful desires? Did Jesus not take those desires that produce sin away?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Have not had a ticket in many years and plan to keep it that way. It is easy to follow the rules of the road! I now think in terms of being patient, when driving as God could be allowing me to avoid an accident up ahead if I speed, or coast through a stop sign. He has convicted me of it as, I could hurt others by my own negligence. So, now...I am so very aware of those around me and remain calm. I no longer try to fly through a stale yellow light, I (well, pretty much, anyhow ...do not coast through Stop signs) but there are times I will very early in the A.M. when I'm the only one on the road. I know, still breaking the law of "the land".

See, that is growth! But marks would like to condemn you to prison and throw away the key!

 

[Nancy]

See, that is growth! But marks would like to condemn you to prison and throw away the key!

You really think Marks would think that? Hmm...I know if I were judging myself, I would condemn myself to prison and toss the key. Lol.
We are all in a sort of prison in this world, I think, being subject to the sins and evils of others who sin against us. Cannot escape from that... YET, Amen.

C.L., do you see difference between false doctrine and denominational disagreements? Like for instance, one denomination says to drink or dance is of Satan and does not allow it, yet they believe in all the core Christian beliefs. Oh gosh, how will we EVER become united in "time"? Eternity we will see Him as He is and see how He sees. Just wish folks would be more kind to one another, even when debating.
Just some thoughts my friend

 

[marks]

Grieving the Spirit is no small thing but has to do with anger, bitterness and unforgivness;

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding concerning "grieving the Spirit".

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

You are connecting "grieving the Spirit" with the next part, putting away bitterness and malice and wrath.

The conjoining words show it is actually connected to the previous thought.

This forms a couplet:
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Vs. 31, don't do these, Vs. 32 do these.

These likewise have a flow of thought:
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Don't say corrupt things, only say those things that build up, so that you are giving other grace, and don't make God's Holy Spirit saddened, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Give grace through your words. The Holy Spirit is our seal of ownership, and you will make God sad if in your words you take that confidence from others.

Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption. This is a statement of ownership, and this seal is there until our day of redemption. Saying otherwise tears down. We are to not do that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

as, I could hurt others by my own negligence.

This is it.

We grow in love for others, so we do those things that care for and nurture others. Like not risking in unsafe driving. Or setting a poor example.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Don't you think you should be speaking to Nancy about this? Especially if you believe it is unforgivable? I don't happen to think it is, just a lack of self-control.

No, the question has been directed to you, but you seem allergic to it.

You obviously don't wish to respond.

No worries!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

This is it.

We grow in love for others, so we do those things that care for and nurture others. Like not risking in unsafe driving. Or setting a poor example.

Much love!

Amen.

 

[Nancy]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding concerning "grieving the Spirit".

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

You are connecting "grieving the Spirit" with the next part, putting away bitterness and malice and wrath.

The conjoining words show it is actually connected to the previous thought.

This forms a couplet:
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Vs. 31, don't do these, Vs. 32 do these.

These likewise have a flow of thought:
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Don't say corrupt things, only say those things that build up, so that you are giving other grace, and don't make God's Holy Spirit saddened, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Give grace through your words. The Holy Spirit is our seal of ownership, and you will make God sad if in your words you take that confidence from others.

Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption. This is a statement of ownership, and this seal is there until our day of redemption. Saying otherwise tears down. We are to not do that.

Much love!

I'd say that any sin or trespass grieves the Holy Spirit.

 

[marks]

You really think Marks would think that?

Of course that's not my desire!!

I sometimes ask questions that people cannot answer, and, well, this isn't the only time I've been treated according as a result. It's too bad!

It's because I began to see the consistencies and inconsistencies in various schools of thought that I came to realize how fully justified and reconciled we are! These should learning and growing times, and instead it's the schoolyard.

And that to me is sad.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'd say that any sin or trespass grieves the Holy Spirit.

I think so too, although there does seem to me to be a certain thing that is being said here.

But this speaks towards my thought of sin, that all not of faith is sin, even things that @CharismaticLady would not apparently call sin. But without the right understanding of what sin and righteousness really are, what they look like, feel like, we can really really be shortchanging ourselves.

Rather than being "self-sin-sniffers", I think it's better just to be sensitive to when I'm really trusting in and enjoying my heavenly Father, and when I realize I'm not, to simply get back into that faith.

Much love!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Much love doesn't help much

 

[Nancy]

I think so too, although there does seem to me to be a certain thing that is being said here.

But this speaks towards my thought of sin, that all not of faith is sin, even things that @CharismaticLady would not apparently call sin. But without the right understanding of what sin and righteousness really are, what they look like, feel like, we can really really be shortchanging ourselves.

Rather than being "self-sin-sniffers", I think it's better just to be sensitive to when I'm really trusting in and enjoying my heavenly Father, and when I realize I'm not, to simply get back into that faith.

Much love!

"But this speaks towards my thought of sin, that all not of faith is sin, even things that @CharismaticLady would not apparently call sin. "


"Romans 14:23 "But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin."

Also, ANYTHING we do that is NOT of faith...yes, condemns us.

It will take ME a while to really study this but, all in His time!
I have been meaning to look into "sins v trespasses" I have looked at this a bit because of C.L. Still not solid on it but...it is def worth a good study, I think.

 

[Nancy]

"Iniquity is a “premeditated choice, continuing without repentance.”

Psalm 32:5 – [David”] I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin."

Just came across a so far, decent article. here is a snippet of it.

" When Adam took that fruit in his hand to eat it, he was not deceived, he knew it was wrong but he did it anyway. There are some sins of deception, sins of ignorance and then sins of presumption. He knew it was wrong. That could easily happen amongst us. We know that something is wrong but we go ahead anyway and do it. We overstep the bounds.”
(Willie Pollock, Sharon, Ohio Conv., 2000)"

 

[justbyfaith]

We sin indwelling and we sin practically because we still have a sin nature!

Indwelling sin is not something that we do. It is a state of being.

We all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8). I think that the verb used in relation to sin is a factor in the definition that we might have for sin in this instance.

The element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it has no longer any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

If we abide in Christ we sin not (1 John 3:6) and if we are born again we "do not" and "cannot" sin (1 John 3:9).

If, in 1 John 1:8, it is talking about practical sins, there is a contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and the verses that I just referenced and spoke about.

So this concept that after you are saved, Jesus blood did not pay fo rthose sins is a blasphemous lie!

Yet in Hebrews 10:26-31, this very concept is established concerning willfully sinning against the Lord.