The False vs True Gift Of Tongues

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Starise

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My .00002 worth. It might be valued at less, but I think there is some validity to it.

"Tongues" as the gift is commonly referred to is not magic fairy dust. Nothing in the bible specifically says there was a discontinuation as many seem to believe, although I think the gifts are maybe used in more discrete ways today, at least in what I see.

Since tongues is an easy thing to mimic by our enemy, he has taken full advantage of it on the name it and claim it circuit as 'evidence' the Spirit is there. That would be the wrong spirit, or maybe just some guy who has learned something that sounds like french.

REGARDLESS, We can't throw the baby out with the bath water. One of my buds has the gift and when we pray over someone, I can hear him silently mumbling his prayer language to the Lord for that person.

Tongues can be turned into something legalistic in making it a requirement. Woe to the poor unspiritual person who isn't so endowed. Shame on him or her for not being spiritual enough to have been "blessed" with it. If you attend a church like that mty advice to you is GET OUT. Waving the gift around like a trophy brings a skeptical look from me to anyone doing so.

The person I know with the gift doesn't tell anyone he has it. He doesn't see himself as any better than anyone else.
 
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Pearl

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My .00002 worth. It might be valued at less, but I think there is some validity to it.

"Tongues" as the gift is commonly referred to is not magic fairy dust. Nothing in the bible specifically says there was a discontinuation as many seem to believe, although I think the gifts are maybe used in more discrete ways today, at least in what I see.

Since tongues is an easy thing to mimic by our enemy, he has taken full advantage of it on the name it and claim it circuit as 'evidence' the Spirit is there. That would be the wrong spirit, or maybe just some guy who has learned something that sounds like french.

REGARDLESS, We can't throw the baby out with the bath water. One of my buds has the gift and when we pray over someone, I can hear him silently mumbling his prayer language to the Lord for that person.

Tongues can be turned into something legalistic in making it a requirement. Woe to the poor unspiritual person who isn't so endowed. Shame on him or her for not being spiritual enough to have been "blessed" with it. If you attend a church like that mty advice to you is GET OUT. Waving the gift around like a trophy brings a skeptical look from me to anyone doing so.

The person I know with the gift doesn't tell anyone he has it. He doesn't see himself as any better than anyone else.
Great post @Starise I agree with all you say. The passage I've highlighted is also my experience. I'm so glad to see a positive post.
 
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amadeus

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Yes

Yes there have been studies I believe which show them NOT to be languages.
Why not let God decide?
1co 14:39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Who are we to judge others?
 
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Freedm

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Now, I think that people who believe what you say @Hobie have never had the gift and so assume that because you don't have it then it must be obsolete. I have had it for many years and so do many people I know.

I was thanking God only this morning for my gift of tongues. I love to sing in tongues, as well as pray, as singing was my very first experience of the gift. And I have to tell you that it is not 'babbling'. My gift manifests as beautiful tunes - always different - with verses and choruses and a natural end.

Also when I pray in tongues there is a pattern as in ordinary speech, with commas and full stops - i.e. a proper syntax.

If you have only ever heard 'babbling' maybe that's why you don't believe, but there are some real languages that may sound like babbling, one even sounds like clicking.

So please don't generalise and dismiss what God has given. Instead you could ask Him to give you the gift.

There have been similar threads on every Christian site I've belonged to and things can get nasty very quickly as those of who do have the gift are ganged up on. Even called heretics or liars. So I hope this thread doesn't descend into such negativity.
I can't honestly say that I know you're wrong, because I haven't walked in your shoes, and maybe you have something that I've never experienced, but I have witnessed many Christians babbling and known many others who wish they had the "gift". As a child I used to stand next to my father in church as he babbled, and in that church sometimes there would come an "interpretation" from another member. It was very moving and powerful, but looking back on it now, I'm no longer convinced.

The fact it, I just don't see the point of it, if you're not ministering to another in their native language. Really, what's the point? And if there's no point, how is it a gift?
 
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Hepzibah

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Why not let God decide?
1co 14:39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Who are we to judge others?
I was talking about a scientific fact, not whether it should be allowed or not.
 
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Tulipbee

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The gift is for a purpose just like all the others from the Holy Spirit and not just blabbing unintelligent with no understading, it had to be able to communicate the gospel not just nonsense noises.

Isaiah 66:18
For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Acts 2:4-8
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:11
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

1 Corinthians 14:23
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

The gift of tongues was the many languages that were there at the time of the different nations, so it was given for this purpose, and it has been distorted with the babbling many use today.

tiffany-boone-holy-ghost.gif

Hey, picture this: people wiggling, jiggling, and doing flips like fish. What's the deal? Apparently, it's like our own version of babbles, you know, those natural human events. But, hey, keep it on the down-low, especially around the charismatics. They're out there thinking it's some kind of Holy Spirit baptism required for salvation. Oh, and in Judaism, they've got this thing called Tachanun that supposedly wakes up the kundalini spirit. They even have a fancy name for it: "The Physio-Kundalini Syndrome." It's like spiritual gymnastics, folks!

see page 185 at https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/It...q47DFcdG9Bjrtka8PhNHl8PAJjub4bao2uqjzqEJuiTRk
 
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Pearl

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The fact it, I just don't see the point of it, if you're not ministering to another in their native language. Really, what's the point? And if there's no point, how is it a gift?
Apart from other manifestations of the gift of tongues it is personally edifying to use the gift in personal prayer time. As the scriptures point out:

1 Corinthians 14:4
Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves
 
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Tulipbee

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Apart from other manifestations of the gift of tongues it is personally edifying to use the gift in personal prayer time. As the scriptures point out:

1 Corinthians 14:4
Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves
You might let out a groan and throw in a prayer for good measure. No harm, right? It's the cosmic combo move – a groan-prayer fusion!
 

Pearl

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You might let out a groan and throw in a prayer for good measure. No harm, right? It's the cosmic combo move – a groan-prayer fusion!
I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about @Tulipbee . I was going to add more but I've already said it all and I'm not prepared to be put down by yet another who doesn't believe and so grieves the Holy Spirit.
 

Scott Downey

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I was talking about a scientific fact, not whether it should be allowed or not.
Likely some tongue speaking is repetitious praise of God in an Angelic language or just fake.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
 

rebuilder 454

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Well, you have to understand that there are many people who have been given a speaking of tongues that is not of God. In the islands we know as we see it many a day when a person is possessed. They speak with 'patterns' as you say and 'proper syntax' etc.. then proceed to throw five man in the air during a prayer meeting and jump beyond any normal human being can do, with no recollection later of what they did. Not all spirits are from God as well as prophets...

Micaiah Warns Ahab​

2 Now three years passed without war between Syria and Israel. 2 Then it came to pass, in the third year, that Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went down to visit the king of Israel.
3 And the king of Israel said to his servants, “Do you know that Ramoth in Gilead is ours, but we hesitate to take it out of the hand of the king of Syria?” 4 So he said to Jehoshaphat, “Will you go with me to fight at Ramoth Gilead?”
Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, “I am as you are, my people as your people, my horses as your horses.” 5 Also Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, “Please inquire for the word of the Lord today.”
6 Then the king of Israel gathered [a]the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said to them, “Shall I go against Ramoth Gilead to fight, or shall I refrain?”
So they said, “Go up, for the Lord will deliver it into the hand of the king.”
7 And Jehoshaphat said, “Is there not still a prophet of the Lord here, that we may inquire of [b]Him?”
8 So the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “There is still one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may inquire of the Lord; but I hate him, because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil.”
And Jehoshaphat said, “Let not the king say such things!”
9 Then the king of Israel called an officer and said, “Bring Micaiah the son of Imlah quickly!”
10 The king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, having put on their robes, sat each on his throne, at a threshing floor at the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. 11 Now Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made horns of iron for himself; and he said, “Thus says the Lord: ‘With these you shall gore the Syrians until they are destroyed.’ ” 12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, “Go up to Ramoth Gilead and prosper, for the Lord will deliver it into the king’s hand.”
13 Then the messenger who had gone to call Micaiah spoke to him, saying, “Now listen, the words of the prophets with one accord encourage the king. Please, let your word be like the word of one of them, and speak encouragement.”
14 And Micaiah said, “As the Lord lives, whatever the Lord says to me, that I will speak.”
15 Then he came to the king; and the king said to him, “Micaiah, shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall we refrain?”
And he answered him, “Go and prosper, for the Lord will deliver it into the hand of the king!”
16 So the king said to him, “How many times shall I make you swear that you tell me nothing but the truth in the name of the Lord?”
17 Then he said, “I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd. And the Lord said, ‘These have no master. Let each return to his house in peace.’ ”
18 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Did I not tell you he would not prophesy good concerning me, but evil?”
19 Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ 22 The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 23 Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”
24 Now Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near and struck Micaiah on the cheek, and said, “Which way did the spirit from the Lord go from me to speak to you?”
25 And Micaiah said, “Indeed, you shall see on that day when you go into an inner chamber to hide!”
26 So the king of Israel said, “Take Micaiah, and return him to Amon the governor of the city and to Joash the king’s son; 27 and say, ‘Thus says the king: “Put this fellow in prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and water of affliction, until I come in peace.” ’ ”
28 But Micaiah said, “If you ever return in peace, the Lord has not spoken by me.” And he said, “Take heed, all you people!”
It takes a Holy Spirit baptized tongue talker to discern the gift.
That is what Paul was and all the churches he wrote to.
The devil can counterfeit most anything.
Nothing new.
 
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Hepzibah

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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels
As part of Paul's rebuke he is basically saying - even if I could speak with all the languages of men, and as a bit of sarcasm - the languages of angels.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,

again speaking in hyperbole (exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally).
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
Of course if the language is unknown only God knows. The last bit can have various meanings so with good exegesis we interpret it according to the rest.
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
Yep he spoke a number of languages yet says again speaking to be understood is the aim. The chapter is all about communication.
 

Scott Downey

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View attachment 40124

Hey, picture this: people wiggling, jiggling, and doing flips like fish. What's the deal? Apparently, it's like our own version of babbles, you know, those natural human events. But, hey, keep it on the down-low, especially around the charismatics. They're out there thinking it's some kind of Holy Spirit baptism required for salvation. Oh, and in Judaism, they've got this thing called Tachanun that supposedly wakes up the kundalini spirit. They even have a fancy name for it: "The Physio-Kundalini Syndrome." It's like spiritual gymnastics, folks!

see page 185 at https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Itzhak Bentov - Stalking The Wild Pendulum - On the Mechanics of Consciousness.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0uy7VdX2w_RWq47DFcdG9Bjrtka8PhNHl8PAJjub4bao2uqjzqEJuiTRk
The 'Toronto Blessing' was also delusional demonic deception, people making animal noises and moving like animals.
 

Scott Downey

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As part of Paul's rebuke he is basically saying - even if I could speak with all the languages of men, and as a bit of sarcasm - the languages of angels.


again speaking in hyperbole (exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally).

Of course if the language is unknown only God knows. The last bit can have various meanings so with good exegesis we interpret it according to the rest.

Yep he spoke a number of languages yet says again speaking to be understood is the aim. The chapter is all about communication.
Tongues is communication with God only, people can not understand what is said.
 

Hepzibah

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Tongues is communication with God only, people can not understand what is said.
Yes because it is unknown - a foreign language for which there is no interpreter present in that very busy port where multi nationals lived and visited.
 
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rebuilder 454

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I have been in many many great revivals starting back in the 1970s. I've seen the Holy Spirit manifest in such measure it brought people to their knees .
it was like a holy hush came over everyone.
we all just melted.
we were all just putty in his hands before his mighty presence.
nobody could move nobody could speak.
I've seen thousands of people slain the spirit and one minister commented that this is God's operating table.
People get free
people get set free
people get healed
people get direction
people bask in his awesome presence and Glory and it changes these people
it has changed me forever
I will never forget it. I have traveled different states just to be in Revival. in around 1993 or so I bought airfare to New York City to go to Dave wilkerson's time square church.
It was called Revival on Broadway. God was manifest in such power in that place I was paralyzed and I could not move
it was just heaven come down to earth and what glorious glorious times we had in that church.
I met people that I still talk to today in that church and I will never forget that one either
then around 1995 there was the Holy laughter that came and that was yet another glorious glorious time the joy of the Lord made manifest.
Then a little bit later that year there was the Brownsville Revival in Florida. We visited about 10 or 12 times and saw the radical change in our children and decided to move there. I think that one was the best of all because I got to see my children on fire for Jesus. It was like a freight train came through that City and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands got saved
 
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Tulipbee

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I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about @Tulipbee . I was going to add more but I've already said it all and I'm not prepared to be put down by yet another who doesn't believe and so grieves the Holy Spirit.
Ah, Pearl, the celestial critique! My cosmic musings might be a tad out of orbit, but hey, we're just doing the groan-prayer fusion dance. No harm intended, just a cosmic shuffle. Let's keep the cosmic vibes groovy, and who knows, maybe the universe has a sense of humor too! ‍♂️ #CosmicDance #CelestialCritique
 

Pearl

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Ah, Pearl, the celestial critique! My cosmic musings might be a tad out of orbit, but hey, we're just doing the groan-prayer fusion dance. No harm intended, just a cosmic shuffle. Let's keep the cosmic vibes groovy, and who knows, maybe the universe has a sense of humor too! ‍♂️ #CosmicDance #CelestialCritique
Well then @Tulipbee - you keep doing your cosmic, groovy groaning and I'll keep on using my lovely gift of tongues. coffee:Chkl::tiphat:
 
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Tulipbee

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The 'Toronto Blessing' was also delusional demonic deception, people making animal noises and moving like animals.
Scott, it seems we've stumbled into a divine dance-off! People wiggling, jiggling, and flipping like fish – our cosmic version of babbles. But hold onto your halo, charismatics might see it as Holy Spirit baptism! And in Judaism, Tachanun does the kundalini wake-up, aka "The Physio-Kundalini Syndrome." It's spiritual gymnastics, a celestial jig! Now, about that 'Toronto Blessing' – delusional demonic deception or just some angels getting their groove on? #DivineDanceOff #HeavenlyHustle
 
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Scott Downey

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Scott, it seems we've stumbled into a divine dance-off! People wiggling, jiggling, and flipping like fish – our cosmic version of babbles. But hold onto your halo, charismatics might see it as Holy Spirit baptism! And in Judaism, Tachanun does the kundalini wake-up, aka "The Physio-Kundalini Syndrome." It's spiritual gymnastics, a celestial jig! Now, about that 'Toronto Blessing' – delusional demonic deception or just some angels getting their groove on? #DivineDanceOff #HeavenlyHustle
I had 2 friends there, and they however they were not happy campers, and they are charismatic type people.


The Toronto Airport church became known for its congregants’ emotional outbursts and odd psychological displays. Pastor Arnott began focusing almost exclusively on “the party of the Holy Spirit.” Experiences were being held in higher esteem than Scripture. This was even too much for the extremely charismatic Vineyard Movement, which severed ties with their Toronto Airport church in 1995, prompting the name change to Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship.