The False vs True Gift Of Tongues

[Tulipbee]

@Fred J The first time I ever used my gift of tongues was shortly after I had hands laid on me and i was baptised in the Spirit.

I began to sing in tongues, a proper song - verse and chorus - and it repeated over and over, the words and the tune. It was wonderful. After a while and without even thinking I started to sing the same song in English - the interpretation. It turned out it was a personal prophecy for my life. I still sing it.

I still pray in tongues and sing in tongues but have never spoken in tongues in a gathering where an interpretation was required. However on forums such as this many people have attempted to tell me that the gift of tongues is no longer valid so I must somehow be spouting gibberish. I choose to tell them the truth, give my own personal testimony and forget about the negativity.

Prism, considering the ongoing discussion about spiritual gifts, tongues, and their validity, let's delve into Calvin's perspective on Cessationism using insights from his writings, particularly the Institutes of the Christian Religion.
Calvin, in Book IV, Chapter 19, Section 7 of the Institutes, touches upon the topic of spiritual gifts. He emphasizes the temporary nature of certain gifts, stating, "There are those which, from the very moment the church appeared in the world, God was pleased to confer upon it, and which He has never since withdrawn." However, he also acknowledges that other gifts were given for a specific period to confirm the authenticity of the Gospel.
Now, considering the gift of tongues, Calvin, in his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8, supports the idea that tongues served a particular purpose in the early church and were not intended to be a perpetual manifestation. He writes, "This gift was of short duration, its use having been confined to the first times of the Gospel."
To provide a biblical backing to Calvin's view, we turn to 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 (ESV), where Paul states, "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."
In alignment with Calvin's interpretation, this passage suggests that certain gifts, including tongues, were transitional and would cease with the completion of God's redemptive plan.
So, Prism, as we navigate this theological landscape, Calvin's Cessationist perspective finds support both in his writings and in the Scriptures, emphasizing the temporary nature of certain spiritual gifts. #CalvinOnCessationism

 

[amadeus]

The true was the languages clearly spoken of in Acts 2:

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

The false is that spoken to many cults and false religions in the form of incoherent babbling. If that is the one spoken by which measure can you think one is the real one?

The final must be encountered by the lead of the Holy Spirit. This too is problematic for one who is not always open to God. My own solution was found in the following words:

Lu 14:9	And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
Lu 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11	For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

God will often leave us in delusions till we learn things like humility.

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The love is truth is needed at all times even when and if we do not know precisely what that is. Do we see His face clearly? We must continue to seek it nevertheless.

I am sorry to hear that. I do hope you can recover some health and be able to get out in the warmer months. Maybe this time can benefit you as did my years out of the church scene so that I was able to discerne the false better.

In spite of the difficulties, I have been blessed with over 50 years in a good marriage and children who are there when they are needed.

1 Cor 12-14 tells me that communication with God is so very important, and time spent with Him, both speaking to Him or hearing Him speak part of the relationship. If one spent most of the time with a physical partner and gabbling, I don't see how that would help when both speak the same language. I can easily find words to praise God and worship Him and any problems in that area are due to the quality of the relationship which needs fixing and not confusing.

I spend a lot of time every morning reading my Bibles, talking to God and listening. I recognize that I do not have all of the answers or even all of the questions. I also recognize that a God does.

If we are one with Christ which is the real result of Spirit baptism, then communication is as smooth as silk and in our own language. However, the real meaning of Spirit baptism has been perverted and is not the one that was taught in the early church ie it meant holiness or entire sanctification.

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[amadeus]

@Fred J The first time I ever used my gift of tongues was shortly after I had hands laid on me and i was baptised in the Spirit.

I began to sing in tongues, a proper song - verse and chorus - and it repeated over and over, the words and the tune. It was wonderful. After a while and without even thinking I started to sing the same song in English - the interpretation. It turned out it was a personal prophecy for my life. I still sing it.

I still pray in tongues and sing in tongues but have never spoken in tongues in a gathering where an interpretation was required. However on forums such as this many people have attempted to tell me that the gift of tongues is no longer valid so I must somehow be spouting gibberish. I choose to tell them the truth, give my own personal testimony and forget about the negativity.

Remember dear sister in Christ that...

Ro 11:29

...the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

And...

2ti 1:6

Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

 

[Fred J]

Fred J, your contribution brings a thoughtful perspective to the discussion on speaking in tongues. Let's respond to Fred J's insights with acknowledgment and engagement.

Am humble and a servant glad to serve, now instead of me teach the Holy Bible, rather allow the Holy Bible to teach me. Merely, am an instrument, but GOD the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ deserve all the Honor, Glory, Praise and Thanks.

"Thank you, Fred J, for directing attention to the scriptural guidance on spiritual gifts, particularly speaking in tongues, found in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 to 14. Your emphasis on the importance of interpretation aligns with the apostle Paul's teachings on edification and understanding within the community.

Why the tongue of angels and interpretation required in the congregation?

For this gift edifies only the body of one who utters them, and that's why the interpretation required.

Therefore, others who do not understand this tongue, shall come to understand through the interpretation. So that the whole congregation able to perceive together the meaning behind this tongue, and end together by saying, Amen.

In this order, every one there and their bodies are edified at the same time.

Your reminder of the need for those who speak in tongues to pray for the gift of interpretation reflects the scriptural call for order and clarity in the exercise of spiritual gifts. Indeed, the silence or private utterance between individuals and God, as you suggest, resonates with the emphasis on decency and orderliness.

It is not that i suggest, but rather this are requirements in the context of the Scripture by Apostle Paul. In order on the event when even a stranger walks in hearing them, may he not find the congregation mad.

Also, this gives room for the gift of Prophesying to take over, therefore the edification of every one's body is met by the Word of GOD.

Furthermore, your recommendation of allowing only two or three persons at a time to speak in tongues and interpret, with the rest taking turns, echoes the apostle Paul's instructions for maintaining order in the assembly.

Again in the context of the Scripture, Apostle Paul recommended it rather for order in the church.

As we navigate discussions on spiritual gifts, let us continue to draw insights from the Scriptures and seek to understand and apply them in a manner that promotes the edification and unity of the body of Christ. #SpiritualGifts"

Precisely!

Thank you.

 

[Fred J]

@Fred J The first time I ever used my gift of tongues was shortly after I had hands laid on me and i was baptised in the Spirit.

I began to sing in tongues, a proper song - verse and chorus - and it repeated over and over, the words and the tune. It was wonderful. After a while and without even thinking I started to sing the same song in English - the interpretation. It turned out it was a personal prophecy for my life. I still sing it.

Apparently, they are only for the edification of your body and not the congregation's. But Scripturally, this gift of tongues of angels in the congregation, relates to the communication between GOD and the one who utters it

I still pray in tongues and sing in tongues but have never spoken in tongues in a gathering where an interpretation was required. However on forums such as this many people have attempted to tell me that the gift of tongues is no longer valid so I must somehow be spouting gibberish. I choose to tell them the truth, give my own personal testimony and forget about the negativity.

Again, only your body is edified by this, and those who say this gift no longer valid, are heretics.

 

[Hobie]

The final must be encountered by the lead of the Holy Spirit. This too is problematic for one who is not always open to God. My own solution was found in the following words:

Lu 14:9	And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
Lu 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11	For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The love is truth is needed at all times even when and if we do not know precisely what that is. Do we see His face clearly? We must continue to seek it nevertheless.

In spite of the difficulties, I have been blessed with over 50 years in a good marriage and children who are there when they are needed.

I spend a lot of time every morning reading my Bibles, talking to God and listening. I recognize that I do not have all of the answers or even all of the questions. I also recognize that a God does.

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I like that especially 2 Thessalians on the love of the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That is a key text as many Christians dont have any love for truth, but only what the preacher or minister tells them..

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Prism, considering the ongoing discussion about spiritual gifts, tongues, and their validity, let's delve into Calvin's perspective on Cessationism using insights from his writings, particularly the Institutes of the Christian Religion.
Calvin, in Book IV, Chapter 19, Section 7 of the Institutes, touches upon the topic of spiritual gifts. He emphasizes the temporary nature of certain gifts, stating, "There are those which, from the very moment the church appeared in the world, God was pleased to confer upon it, and which He has never since withdrawn." However, he also acknowledges that other gifts were given for a specific period to confirm the authenticity of the Gospel.
Now, considering the gift of tongues, Calvin, in his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8, supports the idea that tongues served a particular purpose in the early church and were not intended to be a perpetual manifestation. He writes, "This gift was of short duration, its use having been confined to the first times of the Gospel."
To provide a biblical backing to Calvin's view, we turn to 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 (ESV), where Paul states, "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."
In alignment with Calvin's interpretation, this passage suggests that certain gifts, including tongues, were transitional and would cease with the completion of God's redemptive plan.
So, Prism, as we navigate this theological landscape, Calvin's Cessationist perspective finds support both in his writings and in the Scriptures, emphasizing the temporary nature of certain spiritual gifts. #CalvinOnCessationism

Calvin was wrong about the cessation of spiritual gifts. So maybe if you prompted your GPT-4 AI ( or whichever model you use) to answer Biblical questions without Calvin's theology, without the cosmic dance and comic theatrical fluff, maybe people might be more interested in reading Tulipbee posts.
These AI programs gave access to 500 million digital books, why limit your responses to Calvin 's flawed theology? Even if you believe 100% in Calvinism, he was only one theologian, there are dozens of influencial theologians. You could prompt answers from Jonathan Edwards, Spurgeon, MacArthur, Sproul, Graham, Packer, Giesler ...

 

[Hobie]

Calvin was wrong about the cessation of spiritual gifts. So maybe if you prompted your GPT-4 AI ( or whichever model you use) to answer Biblical questions without Calvin's theology, without the cosmic dance and comic theatrical fluff, maybe people might be more interested in reading Tulipbee posts.
These AI programs gave access to 500 million digital books, why limit your responses to Calvin 's flawed theology? Even if you believe 100% in Calvinism, he was only one theologian, there are dozens of influencial theologians. You could prompt answers from Jonathan Edwards, Spurgeon, MacArthur, Sproul, Graham, Packer, Giesler ...

It seems stuck in a AI loop for all intents and purposes.....

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It seems stuck in a AI loop for all intents and purposes.....

That's pretty funny that AI would get caught in a loop saying the same stuff over and over

 

[Hobie]

Here is the core issue laid out...

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is true that we see in scripture people getting filled with the Spirit... AFTER they had already been born again.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Maybe something to consider.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

John Bevere is definitely... shall we say skethcy

 

[Fred J]

What we witness in the charismatic churches, believers as in a congregation, all together babble in unknown tongues, is false. They violate the authoritative conditions of the Scripture, resulting as workers of iniquity/lawlessness.

1. They don't speak two or three person at a time, and the others take turns.
2. There is no interpretation.

And as Apostle Paul mentions, if a stranger walks in, he would only think these people are mad.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What we witness in the charismatic churches, believers as in a congregation, all together babble in unknown tongues, is false. They violate the authoritative conditions of the Scripture, resulting as workers of iniquity/lawlessness.

1. They don't speak two or three person at a time, and the others take turns.
2. There is no interpretation.

And as Apostle Paul mentions, if a stranger walks in, he would only think these people are mad.

Yep, this is true.

I used to go to these kind of churches back in the day and many thought those that ran around the church speaking in tongues were super spiritual and really close to the Lord.

 

[Fred J]

Yep, this is true.

I used to go to these kind of churches back in the day and many thought those that ran around the church speaking in tongues were super spiritual and really close to the Lord. View attachment 41349

Without the Scripture, they would have us fooled. Jesus said, "You will know them but their fruit."

They could be the true tongues of angels, but are conducted lawlessly in violation of the Scripture. And, it could be also false tongues of satan and his angels.

Thank you and peace be with you in Jesus name.

 

[rockytopva]

I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you - Galatians 4:13

Without the sensation of Christ formed in the spiritual man any attempt at spiritual gifts is obviously false.

 

[Hobie]

Without the Scripture, they would have us fooled. Jesus said, "You will know them but their fruit."

They could be the true tongues of angels, but are conducted lawlessly in violation of the Scripture. And, it could be also false tongues of satan and his angels.

Thank you and peace be with you in Jesus name.

If they are not used in accordance with God and His scripture, you can be sure Satan will have a hand in it...

 

[Fred J]

if they are not used in accordance with God and His scripture, you can be sure Satan will have a hand in it...

Sorry, i misunderstood you, ya, you're right on.

 

[Hobie]

I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you - Galatians 4:13

Without the sensation of Christ formed in the spiritual man any attempt at spiritual gifts is obviously false.

Yet, they claim the moment they speak in a manifestation that doesnt help or edify the church, its divine. They forget that there are two sides in the conflict and Satan still can manifest control on people...