The Fig Tree - symbol of the New Covenant Church

[rwb]

Because the parable of the fig tree means that summer is near. You're saying that summer has arrived. You're in effect saying,

Summer is the time for harvesting! According to Christ the harvesting is now, during this age of Gospel grace, then at the end of this age, Christ will send His angels to gather that which the laborlores (disciples) have harvested together through the message of the Gospel.

Matthew 9:37-38 (KJV) Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

John 4:35 (KJV) Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

 

[Keraz]

You still don't know what you're talking about, and just leave the Scriptures way too much which causes your false theories.

You should study the Jeremiah 24 Scripture and figure out who the basket of evil figs are, and compare that with what Jesus said in Matthew 13 about the "tares", then Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9 about the "synagogue of Satan".

Then study Judges 2 & 3, Joshua 9, 1 Kings 9:20-22; 1 Chronicles 2:55 and Genesis 15 about the Kenites; Ezra 2:58-62; Jude 4.

Then in final, read the very last verse of Zechariah 14, which for the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign over all nations on earth.

Then you 'might', and I use that word loosely, you might begin to grasp that there two main groups among those who call themselves Jews today, true Jews of the basket of good figs, and then false Jews of the basket of 'naughty figs'. Both together were brought back to the holy land, and it was the 'naughty figs' of Jer.24 that caused Jesus to be crucified, and it will be them again deceiving the majority of true Judah at the end of this world also.

You still have the wrong idea that the first five Seals are not yet open. Thinking that the First Seal is the Anti-Christ, simply does not fit with how the AC comes to power in Daniel or Revelation. It is plainly obvious that the Fifth Seal was opened and Stephen was the first to have his soul kept under the Altar.

I agree that the Jews are represented by the fig tree and some are good, some rotten.
What must surely be apparent to you and to most people, is that the citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are atheists, LGBT supporters, false religion followers and active Jesus rejectors. They rely on their own strength and never acknowledge God for their existence.
They are the rotten figs and as I have pointed out; are Prophesied to be removed and just a small remnant of faithful Christian Jews will remain. Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27
Those bad figs will be replaced by the good Jewish ones from around the world, but the majority of the new citizens of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, will be Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language. Descendants of Abraham by faith, as well by ancestry.

 

[Keraz]

Luke 21:32-36 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Your post #80 is good and tells things correctly. Excepting for the quote in Luke 21:36, where the word 'escape' is wrongly used.
That causes a Biblical anomaly, a contradiction with the immediately previous verse, where it says that Day, [of the Lord's fiery wrath] will come upon everyone on the whole earth.
The Revised English Bible renders that word as pass safely through, proved correct, from the many scriptures which tell us to; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. As in protected and kept safe. Isaiah 43:2, 1 Corinthians 10:13, +

 

[Davy]

You still have the wrong idea that the first five Seals are not yet open. Thinking that the First Seal is the Anti-Christ, simply does not fit with how the AC comes to power in Daniel or Revelation. It is plainly obvious that the Fifth Seal was opened and Stephen was the first to have his soul kept under the Altar.

I never said... when or if any... of the Rev.6 SEALS have been yet opened.

So there you go again, assuming things showing you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Keraz]

I never said... when or if any... of the Rev.6 SEALS have been yet opened

But you think the First Seal will be the Anti-Christ, coming on a white horse, emulating Jesús' Return.

What I do know, is what the Prophetic Word is telling us. Look at my website; you may learn a few things.

 

[Jay Ross]

What I do know, is what the Prophetic Word is telling us. Look at my website; you may learn a few things.

I did and you had presented this statement: -

Genesis 12:1 A righteous man called Abram was called out by God, to move into the Land, now called Israel. God promised great blessings to him.

Not so sure of the biblical basis for this claim.

God certainly called Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant to leave the country that he was living in, to leave his father's household and to go to an earth that God stated that He would show him.

The earth that God showed Abraham was a progressive revelation of God's Love for a people that He would call to Himself, even after they had rebelled against God and rejected His promises to them.

God told Israel that if they continued to worship idols, during the first and second ages of their existence, that they would be scattered to the four corners of the earth during the third and the fourth ages of their existence and that after the completion of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers on their children and the children's children that God would turn once more to gather Israel back to Himself and that he would plant them in the Soil of His faithful servant, Israel's seed, and that He would teach them about His Kingdom and its religion so that they would become a blessing to all of the nations of the earth.

I am afraid that your POV doe snot match up with the word of God as you claim.

Shalom

 

[Keraz]

Not so sure of the biblical basis for this claim.

Genesis 12:1 A righteous man called Abram was called out by God, to move into the Land, now called Israel. God promised great blessings to him.
Genesis 15:5 The Lord showed Abram the night sky, and said, “Your descendants will be as many as the stars in the sky.”
Genesis 15:18 “I give to your descendants this Land - from the Nile to the Euphrates river.”

Abraham and his descendants were Promised a specific area of land on planet Earth.
We know from Galatians 3:26-29, that every faithful Christian is a descendant of Abraham by faith. Also, in most cases; by ancestry also, thru being a descendant of one of the lost tribes of Israel.

Your idea of a 'progressive revelation' is not wrong, as we see from Church and secular history. But the holy Land is still important and will feature in the end times. As that area surely does today!

 

[Jay Ross]

Your idea of a 'progressive revelation' is not wrong, as we see from Church and secular history. But the holy Land is still important and will feature in the end times. As that area surely does today!

The "promised land" was first defined in: -

Genesis 13:14-17: - 14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the earth which you see {that (entity)}, I will give to your descendants for a long period of time where the ending of the vanishing point of this time period, is beyond man’s comprehension, in the future. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land/ my earth through its length and its width, for this I will give. "

Then in Genesis 15 God describes the same entity area of the earth as a sign for Abraham's descendants to know that when they have possession of the described area of the earth, that they will, in the distant future, inherit the whole earth.

God's everlasting kingdom has not yet been established on the earth yet, but in around 25 years' time, God will establish His everlasting Kingdom which shall never be destroyed and give the Son of Man dominion over the Peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him.

Then in Ezekiel 34 God speaks of Gathering the Israelites to Himself and will plant them into the fertile field prepared by Christ and will teach them the religion of His everlasting Kingdom, everywhere they are found scattered throughout the whole earth.

They will only gather together with the other saints after the GWTR judgement after they have been judged righteous.

In 2 Chronicles 7:12ff God warns Israel and Judah that he will scatter them all to the four corners of the earth because of their continual idolatrous worship and the Promised Land would no longer be theirs to possess.

Nor would the temple be left standing.

Remember that Jesus justified his cleansing of the temple with this sign: "If you cause the temple stones to be loosened, then I will gather the building blocks of the Temple together to form the Temple in the Age of Eternity to worship God around 3,000 years from when the Temple is levelled and all the stones loosened.

Shalom

 

[Zao is life]

Yet every other parable Christ gives is that we might know the spiritual Kingdom of God is here,

And Jesus' analogy with the fig tree speaks of the kingdom of God being near, not here. Summer is near is not = summer is already here.

The context of Jesus' analogy is what the apostles wrote:

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
27 And then they shall see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

31 So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

30-31 Behold the fig-tree and all the trees. Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it you will know that summer is now near. So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.​

Christ very clearly tells the disciples how we shall recognize His coming again.

Exactly. And part of that is what He tells His disciples about the end of the Age, which includes the analogy of the fig tree.

You're mixing it up with the entire Age since Pentecost, i.e with everything that comes before the end of the Age.​

Before He tells them about Him coming again, He speaks of all that shall come to pass during this age of Gospel grace.

"Every day Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, but at night he went and stayed on the Mount of Olives." (Luke 21:37).

"And Jesus went out and departed from the temple. And His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple." Matthew 24:1

Despite the disciples' question regarding the Jerusalem temple, in all three synoptic gospels the very first thing Jesus began speaking about (after He had sat down on the Mount of Olives) was (a) birth-pain signs leading to the time of the end, followed by (b) telling His disciples a great deal about the persecution and tribulation they would face for His name's sake, followed by (c) telling them about a tribulation that would immediately precede His return.

In-between He also gave them the sign that Jerusalem (not the temple) was soon to be destroyed (Luke 21:20-24).

But here's the context of Jesus' analogy with the fig tree - the tribulation in the days immediately preceding His return:

Matthew 24
29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
27 And then they shall see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

31 So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

30-31 Behold the fig-tree and all the trees. Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it you will know that summer is now near. So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.​

Luke 21:32-36 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Reading the Olivet Discourse as though the words of Christ can only be for a single generation, whether at the beginning of taking the message of Christ unto all the earth, or at the end, lacks understanding of how Christ speaks to His people in every generation of things that will come upon the faithful saints as we tell others of the spiritual Kingdom of God and how entrance into His Kingdom comes when we hear the Gospel and are born again of His Spirit in us. And that if we do not enter the spiritual Kingdom of God during this age of Gospel grace, then we shall be of those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life who are then cast into the lake of fire, that is the second death.

The Olivet Discourse indeed speaks to those who were His audience, those who would come after, and those who will see His return - but just because this is the case, does not mean that it isn't obvious by the context of the surrounding part of the passage that Jesus was speaking only of the days immediately preceding His return when He used the analogy of the fig tree.​

 

[rwb]

The Olivet Discourse indeed speaks to those who were His audience, those who would come after, and those who will see His return - but just because this is the case, does not mean that it isn't obvious by the context of the surrounding part of the passage that Jesus was speaking only of the days immediately preceding His return when He used the analogy of the fig tree.​

Again, I can't help but notice how you dismiss the reason Christ spoke to them in parables, was that they would have understanding of the Kingdom of God they would be sent into the world with. The parable of the fig tree is no different. The Olivet Discourse covers the whole New Covenant era to the end of days. The end shall not come until the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached unto all nations, and the entirety of the discourse is about building the Kingdom of God through the Gospel right up to the very end of days.

 

[Davy]

But you think the First Seal will be the Anti-Christ, coming on a white horse, emulating Jesús' Return.

What I do know, is what the Prophetic Word is telling us. Look at my website; you may learn a few things.

Like I said before, I never said when or if any of the Rev.6 Seals are opened. The only thing I pointed to was that they are for the last generation that will 'see' Christ's future return. Per your extra-Biblical curriculum, you've already shown you believe the consuming fire event of 2 Peter 3:10 happens, and then another period on earth, all prior to Christ's coming. That idea is not written in God's Word, so why would anyone want to trust what you... say, since you can't even understand the proper timeline of events per God's written Word.

I would have to recall how to use my grade school colors if I relied on your website to help me understand God's Word.

 

[Keraz]

since you can't even understand the proper timeline of events per God's written Word.

On my website, I give a logical, viable and Biblical timeline of the end times events.
2 Peter 3:10 does not happen until after the Millennium.

But, of course; anyone who has already made up their minds on a scenario that is not logical, viable or Biblical, will not be able to comprehend the truth. Isaiah 29:9-12

 

[Davy]

On my website, I give a logical, viable and Biblical timeline of the end times events.
2 Peter 3:10 does not happen until after the Millennium.

But, of course; anyone who has already made up their minds on a scenario that is not logical, viable or Biblical, will not be able to comprehend the truth. Isaiah 29:9-12

No one needs your website, simply because you show you cannot grasp simple Bible Scripture as written. You have to first learn to discard men's doctrines that get in the way, and stay with Scripture 'as written', before God will allow you to properly teach His Word, other than maybe The Gospel, which all believers should know how to preach.

 

[Davy]

Again, I can't help but notice how you dismiss the reason Christ spoke to them in parables, was that they would have understanding of the Kingdom of God they would be sent into the world with. The parable of the fig tree is no different. The Olivet Discourse covers the whole New Covenant era to the end of days. The end shall not come until the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached unto all nations, and the entirety of the discourse is about building the Kingdom of God through the Gospel right up to the very end of days.

No, Christ's Olivet discourse does not... cover "the whole New Covenant era to the end of days".

Christ's Olivet discourse parallels the Seals of Rev.6, so for what you say to be true, it would mean the Rev.6 SEALS began to be opened back in the Apostle's days. That kind of thinking is men's false doctrine called 'Partial Preterism'. It tries to push even most of the Book of Revelation into past history. And those on man's false seminary doctrine of 'Full Preterism' is even worse, since it wrongly teaches Jesus' 2nd coming already happened back in the Apostle's days! Just the fact that the false doctrine of Full Preterism was derived out of 'Partial Preterism' ought to be enough for those with common sense to understand those ideas are planted ideas from Christ's enemies.

Jesus gave the SIGNS of the very end for the final... generation that will see His future coming; that is what His Olivet discourse is about. And those SIGNS match the SEALS of Rev.6.

 

[Zao is life]

Again, I can't help but notice how you dismiss the reason Christ spoke to them in parables, was that they would have understanding of the Kingdom of God they would be sent into the world with.

I don't dismiss that fact at all, and your claim above is a false accusation - and I think you are knowingly doing this, misrepresenting what I'm saying in order for your point to look more legitimate.

The parable of the fig tree is no different.

The above is not true IMO, because the context in which Jesus or the apostles said anything they ever said, decides what they meant.

The word 'analogy' is not used to translate what Jesus said in the instance we are talking about, but if you look up the meaning of the word 'parable', it includes the word 'analogy', and I've already explained that the surrounding context is the reason why I believe that in that instance Jesus was merely using the fig tree as an analogy for the time of His return being near - not as an analogy for the entire gospel period, as you claim.

I'm saying this not to start an argument, but I don't appreciate it when people make false accusations such as you did in your reply in order to shoot down the argument of someone who they are talking to. You shouldn't do that. It's annoying, and that sort of thing is not something you do not do on a pretty regular basis when debating with someone, I've noticed. There was nothing I said which would even imply your false accusation below:

Again, I can't help but notice how you dismiss the reason Christ spoke to them in parables, was that they would have understanding of the Kingdom of God they would be sent into the world with.

Anyway, we're clearly stuck on a point of disagreement about whether or not Jesus was talking about the entire gospel period, or only the end of it when using the analogy/parable of the fig tree putting forth leaves, and whether or not He was including in His statement the fruit of the fig tree, and likening it to the fruit of the Spirit, so I'll end my argument now. I've made my point. You disagree and still have your point. We're stuck.