The Fig Tree - symbol of the New Covenant Church

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Zao is life

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The curse in Matthew 21:19, applies to the Jews and they have never produced the fruit of the Spirit and never will. Their Judgment and punishment is coming and only a remnant will survive. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 29:1-4, Romane 9:27
What an appalling statement. The fruit of the Spirit has been operating in many Jews since the days of the apostles, and even long before that. You would not even be able to quote the scriptures you quoted were it not for Jews who over time have produced the fruit of the Spirit.
 

covenantee

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The call of God to Israel is without repentance.
The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ: His Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


God's calling is directed exclusively to His Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His calling is without repentance.
 
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covenantee

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The term "all Israel" comes from the OT.
Also from the NT.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
 
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rwb

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Well I don't know about signs that Christ has already come in His Kingdom, other than the tongues on the Day of Pentecost and the miracles performed by the apostles, and the fact that people were being saved.

All signs the Kingdom of God has come. There is another reason we know Christ came in His Kingdom, He tells us He had, by casting out devils. Christ also tells us the spiritual Kingdom of God has come, because it is within us.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 
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RR144

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’s Kingdom!
The Fig Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church.

Matthew 24:32-34 (KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Christ tells His disciples that they would see this tender fig tree beginning to produce leafs that should be followed by fruit. And this sign for them is how they would know the nearness of Christ being at the doors. And Christ is indeed close/near to all who believe and call on Him for eternal life as the Gospel is proclaimed in the power of Christ’s Spirit. The blossoming of the New Covenant fig tree is the beginning of building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as the Gospel is taken unto all the nations of the earth. The generation that began in the first century AD with those first disciples going out unto all the world with the message about Christ (Gospel) will not pass away, because through these first disciples of Christ, new disciples are made throughout the years of this time given the Church on earth to go out and make disciples.
Interestingly, Luke adds something in his account of this prophecy "Then He told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they put out leaves you can see for yourselves and recognize that summer is already near. In the same way, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near." (Luke 21:29-31) Notice that Luke adds “and all the trees.”

Question, if the fig tree represents the New Covenant Church as you say, who are the other trees?
 
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rwb

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’s Kingdom!

Interestingly, Luke adds something in his account of this prophecy "Then He told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they put out leaves you can see for yourselves and recognize that summer is already near. In the same way, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near." (Luke 21:29-31) Notice that Luke adds “and all the trees.”

Question, if the fig tree represents the New Covenant Church as you say, who are the other trees?

There is two trees found in the New Testament that represent the spiritual Kingdom of God, the fig tree & the good olive tree. Though all the trees bring forth new growth in season, in His parable Christ makes special mention only of the "fig tree" beginning to bud as a sign the faithful Church is bearing fruit unto eternal life as the Gospel is taken to all the nations of the earth.

The New Covenant Church includes whosoever believes in/on Christ for eternal life. That includes both the faithful of Old, who believed a Messiah would come to save them, and whosoever is saved by grace through faith when we hear the Gospel proclaimed in the power of Christ's Spirit and believe in/on Christ for eternal life.
 

RR144

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There is two trees found in the New Testament that represent the spiritual Kingdom of God, the fig tree & the good olive tree. Though all the trees bring forth new growth in season, in His parable Christ makes special mention only of the "fig tree" beginning to bud as a sign the faithful Church is bearing fruit unto eternal life as the Gospel is taken to all the nations of the earth.
 

rwb

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You're forgetting about the fact that Christ cursed the fig tree that represented the nation of Israel, saying the fig tree (nation of Israel) would never again bear fruit. You present God as being contradictive, which cannot be!

Matthew 21:19 (KJV) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Matthew 21:20 (KJV) And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
 

Keraz

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What an appalling statement. The fruit of the Spirit has been operating in many Jews since the days of the apostles, and even long before that. You would not even be able to quote the scriptures you quoted were it not for Jews who over time have produced the fruit of the Spirit.
I was referring to the Nation, not individuals.
There must be at least 24.000 true believers from Judah and Benjamin, to fulfil Revelation 7:4-8
 

Zao is life

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You're forgetting about the fact that Christ cursed the fig tree that represented the nation of Israel, saying the fig tree (nation of Israel) would never again bear fruit. You present God as being contradictive, which cannot be!

Matthew 21:19 (KJV) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Matthew 21:20 (KJV) And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
You see now, this is a good example of where a simple statement made by Jesus becomes a point of debate between one group of His followers and another.

"All the trees" in Luke 21:29 does not mean "two trees" as your post regarding the Olive tree and the fig tree suggested. The Greek word pas is used for all, which means all.

We need to read Jesus' analogy in context: Trees putting forth leaves makes us aware that summer is near. That's what Jesus said.
-------------------------------------------------------

Luke 21 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

28 But when these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

29 Then he told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the other trees.
30 When they sprout leaves, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near.
31 So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

What things should cause us to raise our heads because we know that our redemption draws near in verse 28? What things is Jesus referring to in verse 31?
--------------------------------------------------

Mark 13 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
28 And learn the parable of the fig-tree: when her branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
29 So you also, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, at the doors.
------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 24 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When its branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
35 The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.
------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Jesus did not begin to speak about a completely different subject or a completely different sign. It was a continuation of the signs He had been giving in His Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of His coming and the end of the Age, and it will be obvious even to non-Christians that Jesus was using an analogy, not giving another sign.

If we insert into this analogy used by Jesus any notion of:

(A) "The fig tree = all the Jews of Israel will be saved and 'Israel' will begin to produce fruit" "; or

(B) "The church will be producing fruit"

(or even the "maybe" that I first posted in my first post in this thread),

then we are practicing eisegesis, not exegesis, because there is nothing in Jesus' words regarding the fig tree and all the trees to suggest that He is giving another sign.

His words imply only that He is using the fact that we know that summer is near when the trees put forth leaves, as an analogy that when we see the signs He had just been giving

(and finished giving by the time He mentions the coming of the son of Man following the signs),

then we will know that He is near, "even at the doors".

The context will teach us when the mention of a fig tree and fruit is a symbol - either for a "tree" as a nation being broken off from the Kingdom of God forever (the fig tree being cursed), or for a "tree"(or its branches) bearing fruit.

This reference of Jesus during His Olivet Discourse to the fig tree and all the trees is simply not one of those places, IMO.

All of these threads and debates about the Fig tree just goes to show how Christians can, and do, take one verse or short passage of scripture, misinterpret it, and then use it as the foundation of a castle of theology or eschatological notions that we build on top of it.

But they are foundations of sand for sand castles built on the sea's side of the high-tide mark. One day when Jesus comes back all those theological and eschatological sandcastles are gonna be washed away. That doesn't mean they are sinful just because they are sandcastles. It just means Christians are human too.

IMO.

PS: Jesus' reference to knowing that summer is near when we see the fig tree and all the trees putting forth leaves has always bewildered me (till now) - probably because of what different Christians say it "means".

So I'm very glad that as a result of your thread, and being aware that the are other threads about this analogy of Jesus saying different things about it, I spent more time with this reference Jesus made to the trees, asking God to help me to understand it. So thanks for your thread.

:vgood: :Zek:

 
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Davy

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Other scriptures prove that Judah is represented by the fig tree' and Israel is the grape vine:
Jeremiah 8:13 (KJV) I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

Hosea 9:10 (KJV) I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baal-peor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Joel 1:7 (KJV) He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.

The curse in Matthew 21:19, applies to the Jews and they have never produced the fruit of the Spirit and never will. Their Judgment and punishment is coming and only a remnant will survive. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 29:1-4, Romane 9:27
Those here (like myself) who actually read the Scriptures, know when someone is trying to be SLY, like you're doing with the above Bible references. They DO not point to Judah as the symbolic 'fig tree' that Christ withered.

Jer 8:12-13
12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

13 I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.
KJV


When God is saying that about Judah above with falling into abominations against Him, that cutting off of the grapes on the vine, and figs on the fig tree, is simply about punishment. It is NOT calling them the symbolic 'fig tree'.

The Hosea 9 Scripture is about the ten tribe house of Israel under Ephraim. God isn't calling them the symbolic 'fig tree' that Jesus withered either...

Hos 9:10
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baal-peor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
KJV


Even the above phrase, "I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time" is about the fig tree PRODUCING FRUIT, and not the symbolic withered fig tree which Jesus withered and symbolizes Christ's enemies.

With the Joel 1:7 example, that is about the LOCUST ARMY attacking God's people in the end, as the symbolic wasting of the vine and barked the fig tree is put as metaphor for how those 'locusts' work against God's people at the end of this world.

Joel 1:6-7
6 For
a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV


It's sad that the deceived here haven't yet figured out who the 'fig tree' which Jesus withered represents. It's about Christ's enemies. Even that above Joel 1 Scripture is pointing to them with that 'locust' metaphor, which is even linked to the locusts of Revelation 9!
 

Davy

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The curse in Matthew 21:19, applies to the Jews and they have never produced the fruit of the Spirit and never will. Their Judgment and punishment is coming and only a remnant will survive. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 29:1-4, Romane 9:27
You are showing your Anti-Semitic leanings again.

I already showed you what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 about his brethren the unbelieving Jews, but you deny what Paul said there.

The withered fig tree represents Christ's enemies of the "synagogue of Satan", NOT deceived Jews which God blinded temporarily.

I'm also amazed at how many brethren don't even know who the "synagogue of Satan" really is; they think it's about unbelieving Jews like you do, and are wrongly taught they are already condemned to burn in the "lake of fire".

The "mystery of iniquity" that Apostle Paul mentioned is about the "synagogue of Satan" which Jesus mentioned. And apparently only 2 Churches in Asia understood it, because to those two only did Jesus mention them.

The "synagogue of Satan" is NOT about bloodline Jews. It is about the 'crept in unawares' of Jude 4. Jesus specifically pointed to them as those who only 'say... they are Jews, but are not". It's about the 'seed' of Israel, not some spiritual philosophical baloney. That means they are not descended from the 3-tribe "house of Judah". They are foreigners that crept in among Judah early in their history. That is why Jesus would say about the withered fig tree that they don't produce fruit forever. It's because those false Jews that crept in is about Satan's servants here on earth, the "mystery of iniquity".
 

Davy

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IMO.

PS: Jesus' reference to knowing that summer is near when we see the fig tree and all the trees putting forth leaves has always bewildered me (till now) - probably because of what different Christians say it "means".

So I'm very glad that as a result of your thread, and being aware that the are other threads about this analogy of Jesus saying different things about it, I spent more time with this reference Jesus made to the trees, asking God to help me to understand it. So thanks for your thread.

I still don't see a simple explanation of the parable of the fig tree that Jesus taught in your post. I think what Jesus said was very clear...

Matt 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye,
when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV


What... "things" was He talking about in His Olivet discourse. I think you understood that, it's about the SIGNS of the end of this world that He was giving. That's those "things" He was pointing to.

And verse 33-34 above is plain that the 'generation' He was pointing to has to be the final one that will literally "see all these things", including the destruction of today's stone structure that are upon the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Those SIGNS Jesus gave there are parallels to the Seals of Revelation 6, which is about the end of this world. So even that little word-play you did with 'end of the Age", with capitalizing that word Age is part of Preterism's attempt to mislead with trying to push those SIGNS haveing been back in history when they are actually for the very END of this world, the last SIGN Jesus gave being His future coming and gathering of His Church.

The first part of the 6th Seal mentions about Satan and his host of angels being like "untimely figs"...

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

That is about the coming Revelation 12:7-9 event of Satan and his angels being cast down to earth in our... earthly dimension, which is what will start the time of "great tribulation" that Lord Jesus forewarned. An 'untimely fig' represents the 'winter fig' in fig horticulture. It grows in the winter, but falls off in the spring, it's an early fig. Jesus said the time of harvest is summer.
 

Zao is life

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You see now, this is a good example of where a simple statement made by Jesus becomes a point of debate between one group of His followers and another.

"All the trees" in Luke 21:29 does not mean "two trees" as your post regarding the Olive tree and the fig tree suggested. The Greek word pas is used for all, which means all.

We need to read Jesus' analogy in context: Trees putting forth leaves makes us aware that summer is near. That's what Jesus said.
-------------------------------------------------------

Luke 21 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

28 But when these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

29 Then he told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the other trees.
30 When they sprout leaves, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near.
31 So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

What things should cause us to raise our heads because we know that our redemption draws near in verse 28? What things is Jesus referring to in verse 31?
--------------------------------------------------

Mark 13 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
28 And learn the parable of the fig-tree: when her branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
29 So you also, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, at the doors.
------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 24 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When its branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
35 The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.
------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Jesus did not begin to speak about a completely different subject or a completely different sign. It was a continuation of the signs He had been giving in His Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of His coming and the end of the Age, and it will be obvious even to non-Christians that Jesus was using an analogy, not giving another sign.

If we insert into this analogy used by Jesus any notion of:

(A) "The fig tree = all the Jews of Israel will be saved and 'Israel' will begin to produce fruit" "; or

(B) "The church will be producing fruit"

(or even the "maybe" that I first posted in my first post in this thread),

then we are practicing eisegesis, not exegesis, because there is nothing in Jesus' words regarding the fig tree and all the trees to suggest that He is giving another sign.

His words imply only that He is using the fact that we know that summer is near when the trees put forth leaves, as an analogy that when we see the signs He had just been giving

(and finished giving by the time He mentions the coming of the son of Man following the signs),

then we will know that He is near, "even at the doors".

The context will teach us when the mention of a fig tree and fruit is a symbol - either for a "tree" as a nation being broken off from the Kingdom of God forever (the fig tree being cursed), or for a "tree"(or its branches) bearing fruit.

This reference of Jesus during His Olivet Discourse to the fig tree and all the trees is simply not one of those places, IMO.

All of these threads and debates about the Fig tree just goes to show how Christians can, and do, take one verse or short passage of scripture, misinterpret it, and then use it as the foundation of a castle of theology or eschatological notions that we build on top of it.

But they are foundations of sand for sand castles built on the sea's side of the high-tide mark. One day when Jesus comes back all those theological and eschatological sandcastles are gonna be washed away. That doesn't mean they are sinful just because they are sandcastles. It just means Christians are human too.

IMO.

PS: Jesus' reference to knowing that summer is near when we see the fig tree and all the trees putting forth leaves has always bewildered me (till now) - probably because of what different Christians say it "means".

So I'm very glad that as a result of your thread, and being aware that the are other threads about this analogy of Jesus saying different things about it, I spent more time with this reference Jesus made to the trees, asking God to help me to understand it. So thanks for your thread.

:vgood: :Zek:

Matthew 24
29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When its branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.

------------------------------------------------------------------​
Parable: A short narrative illustrating a lesson (usually religious/moral) by comparison or analogy. (from Wiktionary)
------------------------------------------------------------------​

The fig tree or any tree (all the trees) putting out leaves is a sign that summer is near. Likewise, you will know Jesus is near when you see the signs preceding His return which he had given. He wasn't adding an extra sign. "All these things" = the signs He had given leading up to His return.

It's not a new sign of His coming. He had already given all the signs of His coming, ending them by speaking about His return following the signs. If we insert that meaning into the mention of a fig tree in the parable, we are practicing eisegesis. @rwb
 

rwb

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You see now, this is a good example of where a simple statement made by Jesus becomes a point of debate between one group of His followers and another.

"All the trees" in Luke 21:29 does not mean "two trees" as your post regarding the Olive tree and the fig tree suggested. The Greek word pas is used for all, which means all.

We need to read Jesus' analogy in context: Trees putting forth leaves makes us aware that summer is near. That's what Jesus said.

I never suggested the fig and olive trees meant "all" trees. I said: "There is two trees found in the New Testament that represent the spiritual Kingdom of God, the fig tree & the good olive tree." It's a simple TRUE statement that in the New Testament both the fig and GOOD olive tree are representative of the spiritual Kingdom of God.

In the parable Christ does say "and all the trees", but He singles out the "fig tree" specifically. As summer approaches we can clearly know this by ALL trees beginning to bud, but Christ wants us to pay special attention to the fig tree for a reason.

Luke 21 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

28 But when these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

29 Then he told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the other trees.
30 When they sprout leaves, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near.
31 So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

What things should cause us to raise our heads because we know that our redemption draws near in verse 28? What things is Jesus referring to in verse 31?
--------------------------------------------------

Mark 13 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
28 And learn the parable of the fig-tree: when her branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
29 So you also, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, at the doors.
------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 24 - closing Jesus' Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of the time of the end of the Age:​

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When its branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
35 The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.
------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Jesus did not begin to speak about a completely different subject or a completely different sign. It was a continuation of the signs He had been giving in His Olivet Discourse regarding the signs of His coming and the end of the Age, and it will be obvious even to non-Christians that Jesus was using an analogy, not giving another sign.

If we insert into this analogy used by Jesus any notion of:

(A) "The fig tree = all the Jews of Israel will be saved and 'Israel' will begin to produce fruit" "; or

(B) "The church will be producing fruit"

(or even the "maybe" that I first posted in my first post in this thread),

then we are practicing eisegesis, not exegesis, because there is nothing in Jesus' words regarding the fig tree and all the trees to suggest that He is giving another sign.

His words imply only that He is using the fact that we know that summer is near when the trees put forth leaves, as an analogy that when we see the signs He had just been giving

(and finished giving by the time He mentions the coming of the son of Man following the signs),

then we will know that He is near, "even at the doors".

The context will teach us when the mention of a fig tree and fruit is a symbol - either for a "tree" as a nation being broken off from the Kingdom of God forever (the fig tree being cursed), or for a "tree"(or its branches) bearing fruit.

This reference of Jesus during His Olivet Discourse to the fig tree and all the trees is simply not one of those places, IMO.

All of these threads and debates about the Fig tree just goes to show how Christians can, and do, take one verse or short passage of scripture, misinterpret it, and then use it as the foundation of a castle of theology or eschatological notions that we build on top of it.

But they are foundations of sand for sand castles built on the sea's side of the high-tide mark. One day when Jesus comes back all those theological and eschatological sandcastles are gonna be washed away. That doesn't mean they are sinful just because they are sandcastles. It just means Christians are human too.

IMO.

PS: Jesus' reference to knowing that summer is near when we see the fig tree and all the trees putting forth leaves has always bewildered me (till now) - probably because of what different Christians say it "means".

So I'm very glad that as a result of your thread, and being aware that the are other threads about this analogy of Jesus saying different things about it, I spent more time with this reference Jesus made to the trees, asking God to help me to understand it. So thanks for your thread.

The immediate problem I find in believing the parable is referring to the end or very near the end of days is that it would not be applicable for the disciples Christ was speaking to. Christ says "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." These things are everything he had already spoken from vss. 1-31 that ends "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Jesus tells them plainly when and how the end will come. Christ said the end would not come until "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." And as the gospel is being preached in all the world Christ warns His disciples "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Now we jump down to the parable where Christ tells them how they will know when the Gospel of the Kingdom being preached is beginning to be a witness unto all nations, and not only the Jews, before the end shall come. "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

What it is near? They and disciples in every new generation after them shall know when the Gospel of the Kingdom preached is producing spiritual fruit for the Kingdom of God which Christ brought to this earth. A Kingdom that cannot be seen with physical vision because it is within you. The disciples are not instructed to wait and look for a physical Kingdom of God to come to this earth by observing physical growth on physical trees. God's Kingdom has come, it is here and near to all who believe and call out to Christ for salvation. The fig tree began to blossom, but the growth from this tree, (unlike all the trees that naturally grow), is bearing spiritual fruit for the Kingdom of God within us. And what began with twelve shall grow throughout the earth to be an innumerable number of saints entering into the Kingdom of God through the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Christ began speaking about how we will be able to spiritually discern the Kingdom of God that Christ came to this earth with has come and we will know His Kingdom has come as unsaved man is born again through the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Spirit. Then after the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete, Christ tells us of His coming again with the clouds of heaven, not to establish His Kingdom on this earth, but to gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I'm glad the thread was of benefit for you. Thanks for participating.
 

rwb

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The fig tree or any tree (all the trees) putting out leaves is a sign that summer is near. Likewise, you will know Jesus is near when you see the signs preceding His return which he had given. He wasn't adding an extra sign. "All these things" = the signs He had given leading up to His return.

I think what you're missing in the parable, it is about more than signs about the appearance of Christ coming again. Throughout the Discourse He speaks of what shall come to pass for disciples in every generation, beginning with those whom He was speaking to, as we faithfully proclaim the Gospel unto all the nations of the earth in the power of the Holy Spirit. We must understand the Kingdom of God is not coming, because it has come! The way we can know His Kingdom is spiritual and not physical is that there will be new life where before there was none.
 

Keraz

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You are showing your Anti-Semitic leanings again.
I am in good company with how I show the virtual demise of the Jews, Only a faithful Christian remnant will survive the end times.

Jeremiah chapter 13:1-10 Jeremiah is instructed to buy a loincloth. He is then told to hide it near a river. After a long time, he retrieved it, but it was ruined.

Jeremiah 13:11-27 Thus, I shall ruin the enormous pride of Judah, these people with stubborn hearts, who worship other gods – they will become like that cloth, no good for anything. Hosea 8:14, Jeremiah 8:5-12
......I bound all Israel and all Judah to Me, so that they should become a source of renown and praise to Me, but they did not listen. Isaiah 31:6-7

....I shall make all who live in Jerusalem drunk..... I shall show no compassion nor refrain from destroying them. Obadiah 12-16

Pay heed, be not too proud to listen, for it is the Lord who speaks.
Give glory to God, before the light that you look for turns to darkness.

If in the depths you will not listen, then weep bitterly for the Lords people are carried off into captivity.
[Judah conquered by Babylon and again in AD70] Ezekiel 21:14
Say to the King and the Queen mother; take a humble seat, for your crowns have fallen. Ezekiel 21:25-27

The towns in the Negev are besieged, no one can relieve them. Judah has been swept clean away. This is paralleled by Ezekiel 20:46-47, Isaiah 9:18-19, Jer 10:18

Look up and see! Those people who are coming from the North.
The Lord’s people, all true Christians, migrating to the Land. Isaiah 41:8-10

Where is the flock that you were so proud of?
God’s people scattered among the nations.

What will you say when your leaders are missing? When you wonder why this has happened? It is because of your many sins. Isaiah 3:1-3
Can a Nubian change his skin? No more can you, [Judah] do good, so accustomed are you to doing evil. Isaiah 38-9

I will scatter you like chaff, before the desert wind. Jeremiah 33:14
This is your lot – I have decreed this for you, because you have forgotten Me and trusted in false gods. I will bare your shame for all to see. Isaiah 3:16-26
For your adulteries and shameful deeds – woe to you Jerusalem. How much longer will you be unclean? Nahum 1:12-15

This is a clear prophecy about the judgement of Judah in ancient times and again, soon to happen, proved by the unfulfilled prophesies here and throughout the Bible.
Then, the Lord’s faithful Christian people will enter the Land from the North. Isaiah 49:12 They will live there, in peace and security, to prepare for the Return of Jesus.
 

Zao is life

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The immediate problem I find in believing the parable is referring to the end or very near the end of days is that it would not be applicable for the disciples Christ was speaking to. Christ says "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" [o genea] the generation

Hebrews 3:10 (talking about the generation in the wilderness during the days of Moses):

"Therefore I was grieved with that generation [o genea] and said, They always err in their heart, and they have not known My ways."

[StrongsGreek]
1074 genea ghen-eh-ah' from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time. see GREEK for 1085

Colossians 1:26 ".. the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations [o genea], but now has been revealed to His saints."

Ephesians 3:21 "To him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations [o genea], to the ages of the ages. Amen."

Ephesians 3:4-5 "by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) which in other generations [genea] was not made known to the sons of men, as it is now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit."

Acts 15:21 "For Moses from ancient generations [genea] has those in every city proclaiming him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Acts 14:16 "who in past generations [genea] allowed all nations to walk in their own ways."

Acts 13:36 "For after he had served his own generation [genea] by the will of God, David fell asleep and was added to his fathers and saw corruption."

Luke 21:31-32 "So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, The same [houtos] the generation [o genea] shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled."

i.e "this generation" is the generation that is the same as the generation that is being spoken about in whichever verses the words houtos o genea (the same the generation) appear. The context of the surrounding passage decides what time or period in history it's referring to.

[StrongsGreek]
3778 houtos hoo'-tos, including nominative masculine plural houtoi hoo'-toy, nominative feminine singular haute how'-tay, and nominative feminine plural hautai how'-tahee from the article 3588 and 846; the he (she or it), i.e. this or that (often with article repeated):--he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who. see GREEK for 846 see GREEK for 3588

Luke 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this [houtos] the generation [o genea].

(i.e the generation that is the same as the generation being spoken about in the verse).


There are many verses in the gospels talking about "this the generation" that were alive in the 1st century, for example:

Luke 11:31 "The queen of the south shall rise up in the Judgment with the men of this [houtos] the generation [o genea] and condemn them. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon. And behold, One greater than Solomon is here."

There is no difference in meaning between the English words "this generation", "that generation", "the generation/s", "ancient generations" etc, and the Greek words that they are translated from. So to even suggest that every time Jesus said "this generation", He was talking about the 1st century generation (just because He often was), is a logical fallacy of note, though Preterists and Partial Preterists insist it is the case.

Jesus was talking about the generation that would be alive at the end of the Age when the signs of His return will be seen. That's the context.

Luke 21:31-32 "So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, The same [houtos] the generation [o genea] shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled."

@rwb There is no "jump" from the signs Jesus had given regarding the end of the Age and His return and what we read above. It's the generation existing when the things will take place that Jesus spoke about in His Olivet Discourse when He spoke about the end of the Age followed by His return. It's a continuation of what Jesus had just been speaking about, not a sudden jump to something else, as you claim.
 
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Zao is life

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I'm glad the thread was of benefit for you. Thanks for participating.
Was is past tense In other words. "Thanks for visiting. There's the door".

When I said thanks for your thread you could have waved goodbye silently if you wanted me to leave, then I would not have replied to your reply, because there would have been nothing to reply to :)

Well now I'm definitely not going away. I would have, because I had other things to do, but I'm staying now. Thanks for opening the door to all who agree and all who disagree with your own interpretation by opening a thread on your own interpretation of it.