The First Resurrection

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Truth7t7

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Yes, we may disagree.

However, consider, if you will, the idea of the 1st resurrection occurring when Jesus rose from the dead and the 2nd resurrection happening when and if a person was born again. Why should it be more complicated than that?

No need to respond here again. Thank you for your consideration.
Thanks for the response Amadeus

Why should it be more complicated than the very simple and clear scripture before your eyes, two resurrections are seen below (First) the righteous to eternal life, (Second) the wicked to eternal damnation

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

amadeus

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Thanks for the response Amadeus

Why should it be more complicated than the very simple and clear scripture before your eyes, two resurrections are seen below (First) the righteous to eternal life, (Second) the wicked to eternal damnation

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
A resurrection is bringing to Life [born again] that which is dead. The unbelievers who have never believed have never acknowledged/accepted Christ and for them there is no resurrection!

"The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:4-5
 

Truth7t7

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A resurrection is bringing to Life [born again] that which is dead. The unbelievers who have never believed have never acknowledged/accepted Christ and for them there is no resurrection!

"The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:4-5
Amadaues Direct Question?

Do you deny a future bodily resurrection of the believer, and the receiving of the glorified tangible body, like the body maintained by Jesus after he rose from the dead?
 
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amadeus

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Amadaues Direct Question?
I have no direct question if you have none! I simply continue with this hopefully 24/7:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
 

Truth7t7

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I have no direct question if you have none! I simply continue with this hopefully 24/7:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
Your non-response to my simple direct question below, will lead me to believe that you deny the future glorified tangible body received at the resurrection

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

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Amadeus Direct Question?

Do you deny a future bodily resurrection of the believer, and the receiving of the glorified tangible body, like the body maintained by Jesus after he rose from the dead?
 

amadeus

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Your non-response to my simple direct question below, will lead me to believe that you deny the future glorified tangible body received at the resurrection

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Oklahoma is ok

Amadeus Direct Question?

Do you deny a future bodily resurrection of the believer, and the receiving of the glorified tangible body, like the body maintained by Jesus after he rose from the dead?
The only thing that showed up on my screen for your post was:
"Amadeus Direct Question?

This is apparently a temporary problem with the forum itself the kind of which I have seen here before. Sorry but that was all I read. I will try to answer your question.
 
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amadeus

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Amadaues Direct Question?

Do you deny a future bodily resurrection of the believer, and the receiving of the glorified tangible body, like the body maintained by Jesus after he rose from the dead?
This time your full post is seemingly there. So much for modern technology and perfect communication. LOL

What is a body to you? A physical body of flesh and blood according to what the five senses men are supposed to have?

1) sight
2) hearing
3) touch
4) smell
5) taste

Is that perhaps a fictional perception which carnal men speak about as if it were reality?

My answer to your question is not so precise and few people, including yourself I would guess, will seriously consider it.

For me Reality is God and the things of God as perceived by the Holy Spirit, the "eyes and ears to see and/or hear" in us, if we have them. What men who do not know God have is only what they believe they perceive via those five senses and what they are able to figure out using their brain and carnal devices.

Dead people have no real vision. They are blind and dead.

A man who is drawn to God and then approaches God as God calls to him has the beginning of a Real vision [not the fictional carnal perception], the beginning of something that need never perish:

First back to what Solomon inspired by God wrote about it:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:14

Jesus speaks of it in more detail:

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16

Paul lets us know where we are when things seem so very unclear and blurred at times:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:12 [Did Paul not include himself in that "we"?]

And here in the Revelation it speaks of how to see when we cannot:

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see" Rev 3:18


The "future" is when if not now?

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it" Psalm 118:24

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
 
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Truth7t7

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This time your full post is seemingly there. So much for modern technology and perfect communication. LOL

What is a body to you? A physical body of flesh and blood according to what the five senses men are supposed to have?

1) sight
2) hearing
3) touch
4) smell
5) taste

Is that perhaps a fictional perception which carnal men speak about as if it were reality?

My answer to your question is not so precise and few people, including yourself I would guess, will seriously consider it.

For me Reality is God and the things of God as perceived by the Holy Spirit, the "eyes and ears to see and/or hear" in us, if we have them. What men who do not know God have is only what they believe they perceive via those five senses and what they are able to figure out using their brain and carnal devices.

Dead people have no real vision. They are blind and dead.

A man who is drawn to God and then approaches God as God calls to him has the beginning of a Real vision [not the fictional carnal perception], the beginning of something that need never perish:

First back to what Solomon inspired by God wrote about it:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:14

Jesus speaks of it in more detail:

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16

Paul lets us know where we are when things seem so very unclear and blurred at times:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:12 [Did Paul not include himself in that "we"?]

And here in the Revelation it speaks of how to see when we cannot:

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see" Rev 3:18


The "future" is when if not now?

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it" Psalm 118:24

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
Thanks for the sincere reply Amadeus, your response didn't really answer the direct question?

Jesus Christ maintained a body of flesh and bone after the resurrection, the Apostles tangibly touched this body that appeared in the room with the doors being shut, and vanished out of sight, this body ate tangible earthly food in fish and honeycomb?

The scripture teaches that when Jesus appears, we shall be like him?

Question: Do you believe in the literal glorified body of flesh and bone as seen in Luke below, will be received by the believer at the resurrection?


1 John 3:2-3KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure

Luke 24:24-47KJV
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 
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Amazed@grace

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The scripture clearly teaches "Tribulation Saints" and "Non Tribulation Saints" or (The Rest Of The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 below, both will partake in the (First Resurrection) on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6


(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Aren't those verses referring to the dead supporting , "soul sleep"?
 

amadeus

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Thanks for the sincere reply Amadeus, your response diner really answer the direct question

Jesus Christ maintained a body of flesh and bone after the resurrection, the Apostles tangibly touched this body that appeared in the room with the doors being shut, and vanished out of sight, this body ate tangible earthly food in fish and honeycomb?

The scripture teaches that when Jesus appears, we shall be like him?

Question: Do you believe in the literal glorified body of flesh and bone as seen in Luke below, will be received by the believer at the resurrection?


1 John 3:2-3KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure

Luke 24:24-47KJV
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
You want a definite simple answer? No!

My total answer is not a simple, no, but would be even longer and more complex than that given in my previous post, and less definite. I still perceive myself too much of the time still in a body of flesh and bone with a brain in my head and physical senses apparent as my means to perceive things. Where and what does one perceive in or of third heaven? Who has perceived it before finishing their prescribed course? Paul? John? Others?

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." I Cor 2:9


But... there is certainly much more than I have thus far perceived although there is more now than when I first began. Your vision may be clearer to you than that, but how could I know without that God showed me that as well?

You believe your vision is more correct than mine? I leave that judgement... if it is really needed in the capable hands of God!
 

Truth7t7

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Aren't those verses referring to the dead supporting , "soul sleep"?
Soul Sleep "Big smiles", the verses are directly related to the future resurrection of all on the last day

No I'm not 7th day Adventist as you suggest, nor do I follow the false prophetess in Ellen G. White
 
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Truth7t7

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You want a definite simple answer? No!

My total answer is not a simple, no, but would be even longer and more complex than that given in my previous post, and less definite. I still perceive myself too much of the time still in a body of flesh and bone with a brain in my head and physical senses apparent as my means to perceive things. Where and what does one perceive in or of third heaven? Who has perceived it before finishing their prescribed course? Paul? John? Others?

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." I Cor 2:9


But... there is certainly much more than I have thus far perceived although there is more now than when I first began. Your vision may be clearer to you than that, but how could I know without that God showed me that as well?

You believe your vision is more correct than mine? I leave that judgement... if it is really needed in the capable hands of God!
Thanks for the direct response "No" as that was my observation to begin with

Amadeus there will be a future resurrection of the believer, and the believer will receive a glorified body as the scripture clearly teaches

Question: Do you believe in a literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens?
 

amadeus

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Thanks for the direct response "No" as that was my observation to begin with

Amadeus there will be a future resurrection if the believer, and they will receive a glorified body's the scripture clearly teaches

Do you believe in a literal visible second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens?
Visible to whom? Only to those with "eyes to see"? You keep using words which in themselves raise up questions in me. "Visible" is one of those words and "literal" is another and "heavens" yet another. Three words in one question. If you do not define a word in terms clear to me any answer I provide may be clear to me but likely misunderstood by you.

What does the Bible say? The Bible actually does not speak as we speak, does it?
 

Amazed@grace

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Soul Sleep "Big smiles", the verses are directly related to the future resurrection of all on the last day

No I'm not 7th day Adventist as you suggest, nor do I follow the false prophetess in Ellen G. White
Not am I SDA.
I'm commenting on verses like what were posted from John 5. The dead coming firth from their graves.
When we recall the passage that tells us no one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven, the John 5 verse seems to be telling us the buried who are in Christ remain there until his second coming.
 

Truth7t7

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Visible to whom? Only to those with "eyes to see"? You keep using words which in themselves raise up questions in me. "Visible" is one of those words and "literal" is another and "heavens" yet another. Three words in one question. If you do not define a word in terms clear to me any answer I provide may be clear to me but likely misunderstood by you.

What does the Bible say? The Bible actually does not speak as we speak, does it?
Question: Do you believe in a literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven, as will be seen by humans on earth,as scripture teaches below?

Luke 21:27-28KJV

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Mark 13:26KJV
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

Truth7t7

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Not am I SDA.
I'm commenting on verses like what were posted from John 5. The dead coming firth from their graves.
When we recall the passage that tells us no one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven, the John 5 verse seems to be telling us the buried who are in Christ remain there until his second coming.
Are you 7th day adventist, I'm well aware of the their teaching regarding soul sleep, in denial of a literal hell in torment for the wicked upon death.
 

amigo de christo

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The gospel was first preached to Abraham. The Lord told him all nations would be bless. You who separate old from the new have not understood the the old is revealed with the new.
Yes indeed the gospel was preached unto abraham . And that seed was Christ . That all who do believe are blessed in Him .
Paul makes mention of this .
The promise unto the Fathers was all about the coming covenant in Christ . And many died through all ages
having faith in this coming messiah . One generation saw Him and He told them blessed are your eyes and ears .
That many had waited and not seen it . BUT THEY TOO had faith .
Its all about the gospel my friend . Believe in Christ Jesus . But those who beleive not will be damned . That too HE SPOKE .
Thus let the orginal gospel be sounded out unto the end . Believe in the one whom God did send , or perish .
ITS that simple . And if we are His we would love His sayings , being hearers and doers of the word .
 
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amigo de christo

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Question: Do you believe in a literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven, as will be seen by humans on earth,as scripture teaches below?

Luke 21:27-28KJV

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Mark 13:26KJV
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
You better believe it . When paul was writing to the church about His coming , THIS was all future .
FOR we all know paul already believed . YES JESUS WILL COME AGAIN .
But on the day , the lambs will fly home , but woe wail unto the world . For once the door shuts
many will beat , but it will not be opened again a second time .
 

Truth7t7

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Yes indeed the gospel was preached unto abraham . And that seed was Christ . That all who do believe are blessed in Him .
Paul makes mention of this .
The promise unto the Fathers was all about the coming covenant in Christ . And many died through all ages
having faith in this coming messiah . One generation saw Him and He told them blessed are your eyes and ears .
That many had waited and not seen it . BUT THEY TOO had faith .
Its all about the gospel my friend . Believe in Christ Jesus . But those who beleive not will be damned . That too HE SPOKE .
Thus let the orginal gospel be sounded out unto the end . Believe in the one whom God did send , or perish .
ITS that simple . And if we are His we would love His sayings , being hearers and doers of the word .
In the Old concealed, in the New revealed

Jesus Is The Lord of the Old Testament, Amen!
 
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