The Fruit Of The Spirit

[fivesense]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and ask if it may be possible.

The Lord told the pharisees that accused Him of casting out demons by the power of beelzabub that Satan could not cast out Satan, and a kingdom divided against itself ends up kaput.

When we see the fruit of the Spirit manifesting in people's lives, believers or not believers, is that evidence of the Spirits' activity in the earth, convicting men/women of sin and righteousness and judgment?

Is it possible that even in unbelievers, such fruit is the Spirit's fruit, even if it is an unsanctified vessel?

Other than the Adversay's counterfeiting work, which never lasts too long, I mean in standard everyday folks? Is the fruit the result of the work of Holy Spirit, regardless of belief or faith?

fivesense

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi fivesense,
Could you say what fruit your talking about?

Off hand your post reminded me of how the Sun shines on all.
And how whether a person is an atheist or not, say, ---if he applies physical laws
like - get up early, work hard - you are successful... do nothing and you get nothing....
you know, basic everyday laws of cause and effect.

But, I don't think that was what you were saying exactly.

Thanks,
:) Miss Hepburn

 

[fivesense]

Hi fivesense,
Could you say what fruit your talking about?

Off hand your post reminded me of how the Sun shines on all.
And how whether a person is an atheist or not, say, ---if he applies physical laws
like - get up early, work hard - you are successful... do nothing and you get nothing....
you know, basic everyday laws of cause and effect.

But, I don't think that was what you were saying exactly.

Thanks,

Miss Hepburn

You know, love, joy, peace, self-control, the ones Paul talks about in Galations 5. I have always wanted to label it theft when I see it in unbelievers, but is there a chance that it still is the result of Holy Spirit?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

You know, love, joy, peace, self-control, the ones Paul talks about in Galations 5. I have always wanted to label it theft when I see it in unbelievers, but is there a chance that it still is the result of Holy Spirit?

Thanks for clarifying. :)

I really still know that physical and spiritual laws apply to all. In the sense that if a person lives a good life, follows the Golden Rule of doing unto others what you would want done to you.. - is a good person - why wouldn't they feel joy, love, patience, etc. Or have wealth and success in everything, for that matter.

If you said this to an atheist friend of mine he would hit the roof at the audacity ---that a person that believes in God is the only one that would have patience, joy, etc. He would think you were really stupid for such a question. To put it into a different perpective, that is - from an unbeliever.
Good is good. Cause and effect still hold firm.

(One time I emailed him how in a movie I had just seen - there was this atheist that was just the nicest person!!
He wrote back -" Yeah, I've known some Christians that were nice, too." What an idiot statement I made to him !!!)

... but is there a chance that it still is the result of Holy Spirit?

Well, may I ask you then --what do you think it is the result of? Sometimes we get to an answer by
going at it a different way --like what something is not or other alternatives.

Again, remember the Sun shines on a murderer and also a child.
:) Miss Hepburn

 

[jiggyfly]

IMO apples come from apple trees, so the fruits of the Spirit come from HolySpirit.

 

[gregg]

2co11;14,15 that will do it

 

[Brother Mike]

What a topic!!!! Normally this is a argument about the Holy Spirit giving us fruit or our Born again spirit that produces fruit made of incorruptible seed by the Word of God.

The answer to that question is Both. Without Your new nature, you could never comprehend the Word, as it does not make sense to the natural man. Without the Holy Ghost, the Love could not be shed abroad in our Heart (Spirit) by the Holy Ghost.


But the Sinner?????????????????????????????

It's not the Spirit of God, for God has given each man the LAW written into their heart, and having never heard the Gospel shall be judged by that conscience.


Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)



Jesus Is Lord

 

[fivesense]

What a topic!!!! Normally this is a argument about the Holy Spirit giving us fruit or our Born again spirit that produces fruit made of incorruptible seed by the Word of God.

The answer to that question is Both. Without Your new nature, you could never comprehend the Word, as it does not make sense to the natural man. Without the Holy Ghost, the Love could not be shed abroad in our Heart (Spirit) by the Holy Ghost.


But the Sinner?????????????????????????????

It's not the Spirit of God, for God has given each man the LAW written into their heart, and having never heard the Gospel shall be judged by that conscience.


Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)



Jesus Is Lord

Brother Mike, I always look closely at what I read and it is saying the WORK (action) of the law, which is not the same as having it "written in their hearts". But I delight in God's precision. In fact, it will not be until Christ's return to Jerusalem that anyone will have the law written in their hearts. If the law were written in men's hearts, He would have said so here. He did not. I also point out the truth that the ten commandments were never given to anyone to follow except the Jews, as this passage clearly states. Israel alone has the commandments, a holy obligation, of which we were never partakers. Our relationship to God is not the same. For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 8:10

Of course, we can "spiritualize" this truth, making it fit our notions about God, but it is best to take God seriously and literally when He speaks.

What I'm trying to get at is this, Is the Spirit so powerful and active in the earth that even unbelievers are subject to its influence? When the Lord left the earth and sent the Spirit of Truth, did people start to come under its power, and begin to bring forth fruit from conviction of sin, judgment, and righteousness that they were unaware of before? I'm not including believers, because they have the Spirit and the Father to point to. But unbelievers who show forth these fruits, and there are a great many, are these under the Spirit's power of conviction?
fivesense

Thanks for clarifying.

I really still know that physical and spiritual laws apply to all. In the sense that if a person lives a good life, follows the Golden Rule of doing unto others what you would want done to you.. - is a good person - why wouldn't they feel joy, love, patience, etc. Or have wealth and success in everything, for that matter.

If you said this to an atheist friend of mine he would hit the roof at the audacity ---that a person that believes in God is the only one that would have patience, joy, etc. He would think you were really stupid for such a question. To put it into a different perpective, that is - from an unbeliever.
Good is good. Cause and effect still hold firm.

Well, may I ask you then --what do you think it is the result of? Sometimes we get to an answer by
going at it a different way --like what something is not or other alternatives.

Again, remember the Sun shines on a murderer and also a child.

Miss Hepburn

Thanks Miss H, I can see that the cause and effect thing would explain alot. I didn't really look at it that way. I like that response, "Why wouldn't they" enjoy the fruits, if they follow the Golden Rule and other spiritual laws. God does indeed cause the sun to shine and all.
fivesense

IMO apples come from apple trees, so the fruits of the Spirit come from HolySpirit.

Good, good, good. But you are leaning towards my bias, and I can see my mind trying to keep God in a box. Nevertheless, this response goes into the balance.
fivesense

 

[Brother Mike]

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:


I said:

It's not the Spirit of God, for God has given each man the LAW written into their heart, and having never heard the Gospel shall be judged by that conscience.

Fivesense said:

What I'm trying to get at is this, Is the Spirit so powerful and active in the earth that even unbelievers are subject to its influence?

ummmmmmmm................. I'll be.............


I still believe that man will not have excuse, and that man by instinct and nature know right and wrong. However, I can't ignore your argument.

After considering this, and what I said, I will have to say that I WAS WRONG.......... If the Holy Ghost does not influence natural man, then what point does the Holy Ghost have being here.......................ummmm......

There is really now no excuse when the book of life is opened in that day of Judgment.

Thanx Fivesense........

Jesus Is Lord

 

[fivesense]

2co11;14,15 that will do it

For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2C 11:13-15

I was thinking about that as well Greg, how that the Adversary can and does do alot of counterfeiting. If this passage wasn't talking about false apostles, and the of those who speak spiritual things to others, I would consider that the fruit of the Spirit could be faked. But how long? and as Jiggyfly says, the tree will show its fruit. Probably we all can see when a person is up to something in order to get ahead and get an advantage somehow, even if it means being a nice guy for a while. Still, I bet the enemy is making inroads here as well, being at it for millennia.
fivesense

This is to Brother Mike,

I still believe that man will not have excuse, and that man by instinct and nature know right and wrong. However, I can't ignore your argument.

After considering this, and what I said, I will have to say that I WAS WRONG.......... If the Holy Ghost does not influence natural man, then what point does the Holy Ghost have being here.......................ummmm......

There is really now no excuse when the book of life is opened in that day of Judgment.

Thanx Fivesense........

Jesus Is Lord
[/quote]

No, thank you Mike, for gladdening my heart with your love of the Father and the Truth. I agree that no one will escape judgment for their deeds, He is a God of justice. Not one single wrongdoing between men will remain unaddressed by the Great Judge and Lord. Not a one. It encourages me to know this. It also encourages me to take caution in flapping my gums, lest I offend someone with my vanities or ignorant remarks. This too, will be addressed some day if not taken care of today.
fivesense