The Future Of Naughty Christians

[KingJ]

1. I didn't say "all encompassing sins"... that changes the meaning of what I said drastically...
I said the list of sins is all-encompassing, as in: The list of sins covers the gamut of sinful behavior seen in every person.

2. Matthew 5:28: Did you forget that Jesus fulfilled the law? That we no longer live under the law, but under grace. So no, adultery (or the thought of it) is not a sentence of death by stoning.

3. Matthew 5:39: In context, He is explaining that vengeance is His. We do not repay evil for evil on our own.

Abuse of power was rampant in Jesus' day... Did you know that the crowd that tried to stone the adulteress were breaking the law themselves? Only a magistrate could impose the penalty for breaking a law.

Jesus, IN CONTEXT, was telling them that it isn't their job to impose punishment on law-breakers. Jesus expects us to forgive the wrong-doer, and leave the punishment to Him.

IN CONTEXT, a slap on the face is an assault to one's dignity, not at the level of rape.

IN CONTEXT, Matthew 5 is a lesson on righteousness directed at His followers, not a lesson on legal rights or for unbelievers.

4. Adultery in your mind violates the 10th Commandment. It has always been a sin.

I don't "preach" at all... and I don't ever single out one sin to condemn when I myself sin everyday. But I would follow these instructions when confronting someone about their sin:

"Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently." Galatians 6:1

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

1. I am not entirely with you then. I am not a homosexual offender. I am not an adulterer. If I was committing mortal sins I would be fasting and begging God for mercy every second of the day.

2.God does not change. If He ordained that X deserved death by stoning, we can be certain that that punishment still pleases Him. The only difference is in how the punishment is administered. The Jews He chose to do it as the OT records it. The gentiles will get what is coming to them in the next life. Us Christians who continue in this unrepentant sin will lose our salvation and receive a worse punishment in hell.

3. We can draw a lot from Matt 5:39. I agree with what you said but you are dodging my point. Not resist and evil person CAN be interpreted as allowing yourself to be raped. Rapist = evil person. Rape = evil dead, do not resist the rapist = allow yourself to be raped. We can only but see it as a rhetorical overstatement as much of Matt 5 is.


4. I agree 100% with you there. But you did not answer my question. Is thinking of someone else immorally justification for divorce per Matt 5:28? Yes or No?

I'm with you on this ATP. Not sure why some here are having trouble with the concept of a Christian sinning vs a person unrepentantly living a sinful life.

Wasn't it Paul who said "I die daily"? So, even those who are saved must surrender everyday and resist the temptation to sin.

When Paul said Rom 7:15, was he alluding to the fact that he was still murdering?

 

[ATP]

''They will not inherit the kingdom'' = anyone who does such. They = They who do X and Y.

Nope. It's not talking about "anyone". 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, and that is what some of you were, but you were washed...........

1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Rev 21:7-8 NIV Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Prov 21:31 NIV The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD.

John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Rom 8:35 NIV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Rom 8:37 NIV No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

1 Cor 15:57 NIV But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 2:14 NIV But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ's triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.

1 John 5:4 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

He is using a figure of speech, a metaphor KingJ.

 

[KingJ]

1. Nope. It's not talking about "anyone". 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, and that is what some of you were, but you were washed...........

1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

2. Rev 21:7-8 NIV Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

3. Prov 21:31 NIV The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD.

4. John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

5. Rom 8:35 NIV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

6. Rom 8:37 NIV No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

7. 1 Cor 15:57 NIV But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

8. 2 Cor 2:14 NIV But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ's triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.

9. 1 John 5:4 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

10. He is using a figure of speech, a metaphor KingJ.

1. Like I said, as long as it remains ''were''.
2. Amen. I like the KJV it says ''he that overcometh''.
3. Amen. It is all up to God. God can remove or keep our names in His book of life Ex 32:33.
4. Amen. If we remain 'in Christ' we will overcome the world.
5. Trouble, hardship, nakedness and danger won't.....but our will and then in turn God, will / can.
6. See 4.
7. See 4.
8. See 4.
9. See 4.
10. He will not literally spit us out, I agree. We will just have our name blotted out His book.

ATP, ONLY God can make a case for OSAS, not us!!! We are NOT God.

We are told in simple terms by Paul to continue to work out our salvation Phil 2:12, and to not be too confident if we think we standing 1 Cor 10:12.

By us pushing OSAS we are pushing a belief of ''live as you want, as long as you repeated some magical lines you are fine and will make it to heaven''.

 

[OzSpen]

The problem is that in the modern Christian community over 80 percent are engaged or have engaged in adultery.

So that many, unless they repent and do it no more, will not see the Kingdom.

From where did you obtain that statistic? What is the evidence for your information about adultery?

 

[pom2014]

From where did you obtain that statistic? What is the evidence for your information about adultery?

This is based on rates of people surveyed that have admitted to dirty or lustful thoughts.

Christians on most surveys, dealing with relationships, average the same as the general population.

Violation of Matthew 5:28.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

We are told in simple terms by Paul to continue to work out
our salvation Phil 2:12

†. 1Cor 6:9-10 . .Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The most important category that Paul listed in that passage is "the
unrighteous" category. Well; it so happens that the only righteousness that
God will accept is the righteousness of God, which is a quality of
righteousness impossible to produce by human beings; and that's why it's an
imputed righteousness instead of a behavioral righteousness. (Rom 3:21-22)

So even if somebody reforms, and is no longer a fornicator, nor an idolater,
nor an adulterer, nor effeminate, nor an LGBT, nor a thief, nor covetous, nor
an alcoholic, nor a reviler, nor a swindler; they will still go to hell when they
pass on should they leave here without first obtaining the righteousness of
God.

and to not be too confident if we think we standing 1Cor 10:12.

†. 1Cor 10:1-6 . . Brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how
that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat
the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they
drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown
in the wilderness.

Although everyone over the age of twenty was forced to die in the
wilderness except for Joshua and Caleb; none were sent back to die in
Egypt. In other words: God didn't de-save them.

Though God sentenced His people's adults to die in the wilderness; He never
once abandoned them, and He went right on providing for them too. And
though Aaron and the Levites were among those to die, God didn't
decommission the priesthood; nor shut down any of the Tabernacle services.

I committed an act of insubordination back when I was in the US Army in
the early decade of the 1960's. Because of it I was passed over for a
promotion. They didn't kick me out of the Army; I kept right on soldiering till
my enlistment was up and was given an Honorable Discharge.

The point is: though Yhvh's people, whom God rescued from Egyptian
slavery, lost their chance to enter the land of milk and honey, they weren't
kicked out of the family of God. They lost a major blessing yes; but they
kept right on being God's people-- that status was totally unaffected.

†. 1Cor 10:6-15 . . Now these things were our examples, to the intent we
should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters,
as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and
drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of
them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let
us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of
serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were
destroyed of the destroyer.

. . . Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are
written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

. . .There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but
God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;
but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able
to bear it. Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to
wise men; judge ye what I say.

So then, the lesson is-- at least partially --that if Christ's believing followers
make the same mistakes that Yhvh's people made, they won't lose their
place in God's family. However, those mistakes can cause Christ's believing
followers to lose some major blessings and/or even end up very ill or very
deceased.

FYI: Paul said "I speak as to wise men". Well, I'm afraid not very many
Christians are wise enough to understand the proper application of 1Cor
10:1-15 but instead go about using it as a proof text that Christ's naughty
followers can become de-saved. Trouble is: there's more unwise than wise
so the unwise are heard more often than the wise. And like they say: Repeat
false information often enough and in time people will think it's true;
especially when the information is endorsed by someone they trust.

=====================================

 

[pom2014]

Webers,

You know that sounds just so splendid when you put it that way.

But alas we have one tiny fly in our ointment.

Judas.

He was pressed into duty by our King. Enlisted, drafted if you will. And yet he turned away. He was even given the HIGHEST courtesy by our King at the last supper. The sop.

And yet, he turned away. And he IS NOT to be in The Kingdom. Because he willingly chose to not be.

This is a Kingdom. And we still have freewill to say yea or nay to the King. And we can still die from our rebellion.

Rebellion is rebellion. That merits death. Or else two things have gone critically wrong.

1. God cannot enforce his laws and is therefore NOT GOD.
2. If we rebel and still be in heaven, then our freewill is taken away and GOD IS NOT GOD.

No matter how you reason it, God ceases to be the ruler he is.

So to say that you can rebel against our King and still be just peachy with him is a lie. That is the enemy talking.

And they should know. They rebelled first and what is their reward for that? destruction.

So if it stands for angels and for Judas; then why doesn't stand of ANY of us?

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Judas.

Though Judas was one of Christ's hand-picked followers, he was never one
of Christ's believing followers; but was, in point of fact, described as "the
son of perdition" (John 17:12).

It's sad that you would actually try to invalidate the holy apostle Paul by
citing a pre-condemned to hell scoundrel like Christ's betrayer. Shame on you.

You know, I've never seen it to fail that wherever the gospel goes, there's
always somebody on hand to pull the rug out from under its beneficiaries
with a slipshod interpretation.

===========================================

 

[pom2014]

Judas was one of his selected people judas had the ability to repent and turn away from what he was about to do, but he didn't want to leave his old wine ways.

It was his freewill that did it. God didn't take that away like you'd have us think, just as you do when once we're saved we lose our freewill and can't turn against the King.

Once we become his people we lose all choices. And if we exercise choice then we must never have been with him. How convenient. No true Scotsman eh?

Its pure evil to say God takes away our freewill. But thankfully you're free to bad mouth God and Jesus. Oh that's right you're unable because now you lost you're freewill. Just a puppet, a plaything.

 

[OzSpen]

This is based on rates of people surveyed that have admitted to dirty or lustful thoughts.

Christians on most surveys, dealing with relationships, average the same as the general population.

Violation of Matthew 5:28.

You have not provided documentation for this. What's your statistical source that confirms this. Otherwise, it is an assertion, without proof.

I await your links to research data that confirm this.

-

Though Judas was one of Christ's hand-picked followers, he was never one
of Christ's believing followers; but was, in point of fact, described as "the
son of perdition" (John 17:12).

It's sad that you would actually try to invalidate the holy apostle Paul by
citing a pre-condemned to hell scoundrel like Christ's betrayer. Shame on you.

You know, I've never seen it to fail that wherever the gospel goes, there's
always somebody on hand to pull the rug out from under its beneficiaries
with a slipshod interpretation.

===========================================

John 6:70 reveals the Judas situation: 'Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”' 'Choose' is singular, aorist, middle indicative of eklegw. The 12 were elected in point action (meaning of aorist tense) as a singular group. John 6:71 states that Judas was 'later to betray him' (NIV) or 'about to betray' him.

The fact is that Judas was elected with the 12 but Jesus in his foreknowledge knew what Judas would do. So it is possible to be elected to be in the closest 12 with Jesus and yet one can turn away to the point of betraying Jesus - because of the devil.

So, Jesus chose

 

[ATP]

1. Like I said, as long as it remains ''were''.

But that's what you are saying, you are adding to scripture. 1 Cor 6:11 NIV doesn't say "as long as it remains were". Nope, it says "but you were". Plain as day.

 

[williemac]

Interesting discussion. If I may contribute a passage or two. John 5:24 (NKJ)..." Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me HAS everlasting life and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but HAS PASSED from death to life".

The key to having everlasting life is not in our moral conduct. It is in faith first and foremost and in the promise that we have escaped judgment. Very simple: no judgment = no condemnation. The judgment of God against sin was taken into the body of Jesus at Calvary. Through faith, we are identified with His death and the old man of sin is pronounced dead, crucified with Christ. If this old man rears his ugly head, according to 1John 2:1, we have an advocate with the Father. What is His role? To prevent God's judgment on us, as it has already been administered to our old man by proxy. In fact the old man, our flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God anyway. The death sentence is permanent. It applies to all humanity. It is the new man and our soul that enters the kingdom, having life already. The part of us that contains the sin nature is positionally dead. The part of us that contains the righteous nature of Jesus is eternal.

This apparently is a well kept secret, as there are many who prefer to bring our moral conduct back into the arena of qualification. But Rom. ch.5 disputes this type of idea, as we are told it is through the obedience and the righteousness of ONE MAN that we are given the free gift of life and the free gift of righteousness. What I wonder is just what part of free is so difficult for some people to accept or understand?

This is the way to understand what grace is and what it means. Grace is the giving of a free gift. Faith is the means by which it is recieved. To anyone who imagines that our conduct is required as well, my question is "what happened to your faith?" Did it need some help? Did it need adding to? Was the work of Christ not enough? Is faith just a down payment? Is there some fine print?

Those who Jesus said He would spew from His mouth needed somthing. They were lacking some important things, as Jesus described what they were. Then He gave them some advice. I will suggest it was not just random or unrelated advice.It would have been the solution to their lack...." I stand at the door and knock"...What does that tell you? It tells me they were lacking the Spirit. They were not cold, as they were serving Jesus. They were not hot as they had not yet received Him. Their behavior or moral conduct was never brought up in the conversation.

As for those who can walk from faith. Not that easy. According to Heb.6, 1-6, anyone who falls away cannot be restored. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance (change of mind). This is not a behavioral issue. Walking or falling away is not about sin. It is about ending one's relationship with God. And if it happens, it is permanent.

We have children who misbehave. what do we do with them? We chasten them. Jesus promised all whom He loves, He rebukes and chastens. He didn't say "some". He said "all". Jesus would not chasten anyone who is in the category described as having fallen away. Such a person is gone forever. Sin cannot accomplish that kind of severe situation. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

Some might argue this is a license to sin. Wrong! A license in so many words amounts to permission. If we had permission there would be no chastening or correction necessary. In fact, chastening would be unfair if it were because of something we had a license for.

I know this reply may come off as somewhat provocative. If only the church at large could be provoked into accepting God's goodness.

 

[ATP]

3. Amen. It is all up to God. God can remove or keep our names in His book of life Ex 32:33.

Ex 32:33 exists in the OT. The Mosaic Covenant is not the Covenant of Grace in the NT, two different covenants here. There was also no seal of the promised Holy Spirit in the OT.

 

[KingJ]

We have children who misbehave. what do we do with them? We chasten them. Jesus promised all whom He loves, He rebukes and chastens. He didn't say "some". He said "all". Jesus would not chasten anyone who is in the category described as having fallen away. Such a person is gone forever. Sin cannot accomplish that kind of severe situation. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

A Christian in mortal sin is not on par with a child misbehaving. Rather a child stabs another to death. Or a brother rapes his sister. If it was just misbehaving I agree with you.
If it was a once off I would also agree with you. But if it is ongoing...we have a problem.

 

[ATP]

If it was a once off I would also agree with you. But if it is ongoing...we have a problem.

If it was ongoing, God would be contradictory to his Word Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

These passages speak of the ungodly nonbelievers...

1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 1:7 NIV In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

ATP, ONLY God can make a case for OSAS, not us!!! We are NOT God.

Jude 1:24 NIV To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—

 

[DogLady19]

1. I am not entirely with you then. I am not a homosexual offender. I am not an adulterer. If I was committing mortal sins I would be fasting and begging God for mercy every second of the day.

2.God does not change. If He ordained that X deserved death by stoning, we can be certain that that punishment still pleases Him. The only difference is in how the punishment is administered. The Jews He chose to do it as the OT records it. The gentiles will get what is coming to them in the next life. Us Christians who continue in this unrepentant sin will lose our salvation and receive a worse punishment in hell.

3. We can draw a lot from Matt 5:39. I agree with what you said but you are dodging my point. Not resist and evil person CAN be interpreted as allowing yourself to be raped. Rapist = evil person. Rape = evil dead, do not resist the rapist = allow yourself to be raped. We can only but see it as a rhetorical overstatement as much of Matt 5 is.


4. I agree 100% with you there. But you did not answer my question. Is thinking of someone else immorally justification for divorce per Matt 5:28? Yes or No?


When Paul said Rom 7:15, was he alluding to the fact that he was still murdering?

1. The LIST of sins is all-emcompassing, not the sins themselves. I don't even know what an "all-encompassing sin" would loook like!
Can you think of any sin that would not include one or more of the following?: sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, thievery, greed, drunkenness, slander, or swindling. I can't. That's why I say the LIST in 1 Corinthians 6 is "all-encompassing"... All 10 commandments are represented in that list.

Yes, people who have committed their lives to Christ seek mercy if they habitually commit the same sin. The sin is forgiveable, otherwise our begging for mercy woud be a waste of time. Those who embrace (justify and refuse to repent of) their habitual sin are living according to the flesh, not the spirit. But ALL of us have sins that we repeatedly commit. We continue to boldly go to the throne of grace, we will continue to have God's mercy.

2. God does not change, but Jesus' death and resurrection set a New Covenant with Him and man. Stoning is no longer the penalty for sin, but death still is... Sin causes the death by the power of God's righteousness, not us.

Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The "but" is a qualifier.

God does not change, but He certainly can change how he exacts justice. A good example is that is found in Jonah 3:10

3. "Not resisting and evil person" can mean rape to anyone who does not read the context in which those words were said.

4. I already answered your question. Perhaps you just didn't like my answer. I said, Jesus gave adultery as an allowable offense to justify divorce for those whose hearts were hardened by the act. Those who are capable of mending the relationship with their spouse, should do so and keep their marriage in tact. This would apply to a spouse who violates the 10th Commandment.
Think about it in everyday terms. When wife has a wandering eye and lusts after other men, does this not cause many husbands to feel like she cheated on him? Yes... yes, indeed it does. And Jesus was making it clear that it does...

In Romans 7, Paul is talking about the struggle to free himself from the slavery of sin that is inherent in his flesh. When he wrote this, he had already repented of committing murder and was forgiven by God. he had no reason to keep asking for forgiveness of sins that he no longer committed, but those he still committed. At the end of Romans 7, Paul says: "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Again, keep things in context.

A Christian in mortal sin is not on par with a child misbehaving. Rather a child stabs another to death. Or a brother rapes his sister. If it was just misbehaving I agree with you.

If it was a once off I would also agree with you. But if it is ongoing...we have a problem.

Jesus died for misbehavior as much as He died for stabbing and rape. To a perfect God, ALL sin is offensive to Him, even "misbehavior"...

 

[ATP]

Notice the words..

1. sexually immoral, immorality 1 Cor 6:9 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV, Jude 1:7 NIV
2. the name of Jesus Christ 1 Cor 6:11, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV
3. denies, denying, deny 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV
4. antichrist 1 John 2:22 NIV
5. condemnation Jude 1:4 NIV
6. did not believe Jude 1:5 NIV
7. punishment of eternal fire / the lake of fire Jude 1:7 NIV

I want us to focus on these specific words. All these words describe nonbelievers that are not born again by any means. Are we connecting the dots here in 1-7...

1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 John 2:22 NIV Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 1:7 NIV In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

- ATP

 

[KingJ]

1. The LIST of sins is all-emcompassing, not the sins themselves. I don't even know what an "all-encompassing sin" would loook like!
Can you think of any sin that would not include one or more of the following?: sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, thievery, greed, drunkenness, slander, or swindling. I can't. That's why I say the LIST in 1 Corinthians 6 is "all-encompassing"... All 10 commandments are represented in that list.

Yes, people who have committed their lives to Christ seek mercy if they habitually commit the same sin. The sin is forgiveable, otherwise our begging for mercy woud be a waste of time. Those who embrace (justify and refuse to repent of) their habitual sin are living according to the flesh, not the spirit. But ALL of us have sins that we repeatedly commit. We continue to boldly go to the throne of grace, we will continue to have God's mercy.

2. God does not change, but Jesus' death and resurrection set a New Covenant with Him and man. Stoning is no longer the penalty for sin, but death still is... Sin causes the death by the power of God's righteousness, not us.

Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The "but" is a qualifier.

God does not change, but He certainly can change how he exacts justice. A good example is that is found in Jonah 3:10

3. "Not resisting and evil person" can mean rape to anyone who does not read the context in which those words were said.

4. I already answered your question. Perhaps you just didn't like my answer. I said, Jesus gave adultery as an allowable offense to justify divorce for those whose hearts were hardened by the act. Those who are capable of mending the relationship with their spouse, should do so and keep their marriage in tact. This would apply to a spouse who violates the 10th Commandment.
Think about it in everyday terms. When wife has a wandering eye and lusts after other men, does this not cause many husbands to feel like she cheated on him? Yes... yes, indeed it does. And Jesus was making it clear that it does...

In Romans 7, Paul is talking about the struggle to free himself from the slavery of sin that is inherent in his flesh. When he wrote this, he had already repented of committing murder and was forgiven by God. he had no reason to keep asking for forgiveness of sins that he no longer committed, but those he still committed. At the end of Romans 7, Paul says: "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Again, keep things in context.

Jesus died for misbehavior as much as He died for stabbing and rape. To a perfect God, ALL sin is offensive to Him, even "misbehavior"...

1. No, Murder is murder, adultery is adultery. The only way sin is all encompassing is in a downward spiral. A murderer can be a thief, but not a thief a murderer. Ie sin quickly reaches full measure when it is mortal.

2. You are making no sense with your first line. Try understand that God ordained X happen because of the level it upset Him. He wanted certain evil removed, not relocated. People who disrespected the Sabbath were excommunicated, murderers were stoned. Big difference in irritation level wouldn't you say?

All sin equals death, amen. But we can see from Hades and paradise that not all death is the same.

3. Yes lets add the context that they must turn the cheek whilst not resisting.

4. You lose common sense in your long explanations. That is why I asked for a Yes or No. So, your answer is YES. YES we can use immoral thoughts as justification for divorce. That is madness, you realize that?

5. So Paul did NOT continue in murder. Do you think God would have used him for what he did, if he did? The answer is a resounding NO. Now can you please just acknowledge that.

If it was ongoing, God would be contradictory to his Word Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

I agree with this. Tomatoe VS Tomato ^_^.

The most important category that Paul listed in that passage is "the
unrighteous" category. Well; it so happens that the only righteousness that
God will accept is the righteousness of God, which is a quality of
righteousness impossible to produce by human beings; and that's why it's an
imputed righteousness instead of a behavioral righteousness. (Rom 3:21-22)

So even if somebody reforms, and is no longer a fornicator, nor an idolater,
nor an adulterer, nor effeminate, nor an LGBT, nor a thief, nor covetous, nor
an alcoholic, nor a reviler, nor a swindler; they will still go to hell when they
pass on should they leave here without first obtaining the righteousness of
God.

Do you think Jesus / salvation got people into paradise OT?

Do you think God would keep Himself from people that sin but hate it / want reform? Ie is God dumb?

Although everyone over the age of twenty was forced to die in the
wilderness except for Joshua and Caleb; none were sent back to die in
Egypt. In other words: God didn't de-save them.

Though God sentenced His people's adults to die in the wilderness; He never
once abandoned them, and He went right on providing for them too. And
though Aaron and the Levites were among those to die, God didn't
decommission the priesthood; nor shut down any of the Tabernacle services.

I committed an act of insubordination back when I was in the US Army in
the early decade of the 1960's. Because of it I was passed over for a
promotion. They didn't kick me out of the Army; I kept right on soldiering till
my enlistment was up and was given an Honorable Discharge.

The point is: though Yhvh's people, whom God rescued from Egyptian
slavery, lost their chance to enter the land of milk and honey, they weren't
kicked out of the family of God. They lost a major blessing yes; but they
kept right on being God's people-- that status was totally unaffected.

Are you saying that nobody is kicked out the army?

God is not dumb. Just like the army did not kick you out for something trivial, likewise God will not. But, mortal sins are not trivial. You can fight with your wife and refuse to do as she wishes, but good luck trying to keep your marriage intact after adultery.

As for the Jews....Exodus 32 tells me that He ordained many be killed on the spot and have their names blotted out of His book for the mortal sin of idolatry.

 

[DogLady19]

1. No, Murder is murder, adultery is adultery. The only way sin is all encompassing is in a downward spiral. A murderer can be a thief, but not a thief a murderer. Ie sin quickly reaches full measure when it is mortal.

Ugh! You didn't read a word that I wrote!

And I don't really buy the whole "levels of heaven" stuff... There is nothing in scripture to support that Jesus' death and resurrection only did a partial job of forgiving sins.

 

[KingJ]

Ugh! You didn't read a word that I wrote!

And I don't really buy the whole "levels of heaven" stuff... There is nothing in scripture to support that Jesus' death and resurrection only did a partial job of forgiving sins.

The point on paradise is that WE got ourselves there OT. Paradise is not heaven. It was a waiting place.

My only point is that mortal sins point to being further lost. Of course a repentant mortal sinners goes to heaven. Of course an unrepentant white liar goes to hell. God sees a heart that loves darkness > light John 3:19. God is the judge, not us. But God forbid we wear blind folds when scripture says we can know someone by their works.