Mayflower, why did the original tongues edify the speakers? Because they understood what they were saying. Paul told them to interpret so all could understand and be edified. Tongues speakers today haven't a clue about what they are saying. And I think if you recorded a tongues message, and had several different Pentecostal churches interpret it, they would all say something different.
The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power
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I know it is debated as to whether or not the complete arw these gifts or when believers get to heaven. Itmakes more sense to me in Heaven. There will no longer be hope or faith for example. It will be complete when we see God.
Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)
Notice the Revelation would also confirm them to the end. So they would not seek the gifts until the end of the world. But only until the Revelation of Christ. Apostle John provided the Revelation of Jesus Christ in either the 60s or 90s AD.
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)
So he was saying the gifts would expire with the Revelation of Jesus Christ that we now know was written by John in either 60s or 90s AD.
All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.
It may not be fruitful to not have an interpretation, but it doesnt mean that praying in the spirit is not real. If someone is speaking to God, God knows what we are saying, even if we do not.
The point is, they were edified because they knew what they were saying before they interpreted. This alone proves today's claims are bogus.
Thanks for the scriptures. Know I do watch and pray about things I read. But wasn't Christ already gone when Paul said this? Could the Revelation of Jesus Christ be His return?
I am a bit tuckered of this. In going to get my daughter down to nap and take one myself. Lol. Have a good day Dave and Farouk
Not in this sense. Paul says to seek the gifts until the Revelation that will also confirm us until the end (return of Christ).
Jeff Wiebe
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I'm a bit troubled by this. If Gods word cant mislead why are there so many denominations? Its not misleading if you understand. Understanding completely is almost impossible on your own. We need opinions, facts, history and a lot of study. It is hard on your own even with Gods help. So in reading your post I will disagree somewhat.
I guess I should have said God does not mislead. Psalms says that His Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path. So there may be gray areas I do need help with and therefore do want to get the right teachings for, but I have learned that the Word of God is the ultimate authority. I need to lead my heart to go wherever He sends me and to give me discernment who to listen to and not listen to.
I think what I am not understanding is "that will also confirm us." I definitely will be seeking the spiritual gifts until Christ returns. Amen to that!!! But Lord help me seek the gifted rather then the gift. Glory to God!!!
Jeff Wiebe
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That is not clever.
Any fool can seek out 'off the wall' extremist articles and post them.
So , because you can't 'argue your own point' you have to go and find something horrid to back up your own position. Shame on you.
Very cowardly. Just a lot of silly fear-mongering.
"Seedy" characters like Jesus' disciples and Paul. Oh, and if you had the intellectual integrity to actually watch the posted documentary on Azusa Street, you would learn (1) that the Martin Luther of the Pentecostal movement, William Seymour spend many hours over many days in prayer and fasting, seeking God's guidance and blessing before this great revival was ignited; and he told his audience not to promote speaking in tongues when they witnessed to outsiders, but instead to share the Gospel of God's saving grace mediated by Christ's atoning sacrifices. You just don't have a clue. 600 million Charismatic Christian converts were the ultimate result pf that unprecedented revival, one quarter of the world's Christian population. Meanwhile, anti-Charismatic evangelical denominations are losing their young people in droves. It's obvious which outreaches are truly blessed by the Holy Spirit.
Study the seedy characters behind the 1900s emergence of Pentecostalism. The strong possibility of voodoo spawning the practice of "tongues". Which is believable since tongues today are nothing like the originals when defined by scripture. Start there and try to find one trustworthy person who was involved. If it were for today, the Church would be doing it, not just some sects who broke away.
Paul uses two words for "coming of Jesus Christ" One is Apocalypse = Revelation of Jesus Christ. This happened when John wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ. And Parousia = "Return of Christ". So you are chasing up the wrong tree by seeking gifts that ceased millennia ago, settling for phony attempts at the real thing. If they were real, the church would be doing it, not just a few break-away sects with questionable histories.
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Jeff Wiebe
Member
That is not clever.
Any fool can seek out 'off the wall' extremist articles and post them.
So , because you can't 'argue your own point' you have to go and find something horrid to back up your own position. Shame on you.
Very cowardly. Just a lot of silly fear-mongering.
John Macarthur is no joke. Definitely not "off the wall". I don't agree with some of his teaching but most I do. Earlier in this discussion I did argue my point based on scripture and history. Knowing the history of Corinth is important in understanding Paul's letter. The gifts are for teaching the unbeliever not personal edification. Study the origins of Pentecostalism as Dave suggests. I have to some degree and discovered its roots are evil that have been twisted to what we have today. Deception.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Not really. I did a study of revival whilst I was at bible college. One phrase stuck in my mind and it was this....
If you don't want revival you won't have it. if you want revival you will get it.
The same with the gifts of the spirit. If you don't want them you won't get them. If you do want them you will be given them.
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