The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[markalan]

Others here are aware of my work intervening on behalf of neglected, abused, and at risk children.

That is very commendable but it does not answer the question.

 

[Matthias]

That is very commendable but it dos not answer the question.

I would not “allow an unlimited number of little children in a school to be slaughtered rather than intervene.”

 

[markalan]

I would not “allow an unlimited number of little children in a school to be slaughtered rather than intervene.”

I can see you are reluctant to say how you would intervene.

 

[Matthias]

I can see you are reluctant to say how you would intervene.

However I would choose to intervene, it would not involve me using a weapon of the world.

 

[Matthias]

I think you're right.

Do you own a weapon?

 

[markalan]

However I would choose to intervene, it would not involve me using a weapon of the world.

Then in many situations you would be killed, and of no use to anyone ... while the killing still went on ... the killing that could have been stopped by you.

Pacifism in extreme situations becomes morally indefensible.

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts 13:4
"For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good.
But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

The argument that a follower of Jesus must not be "God's servant" (according to Acts 13:4) is belied by the fact that the centurions (Mat 8, Acts 10) were not condemned ... nor did John the Baptist condemn the soldiers who came to him.

Acts 13:4 teaches that one in authority can be a servant of God.
Agreed.

 

[Matthias]

Then in many situations you would be killed, and of no use to anyone ... while the killing still went on ... the killing that could have been stopped by you.

You’ve made the assumption that if I were armed with a weapon of the world that I would be able to do what even the police aren’t certainly able to do.

Even if you were to show up at a school crime scene armed to the teeth with firearms - and assuming the police didn’t mistake you for the assailant of the school children - there is no guarantee that you would be able to precent even one child from being harmed. There is a high risk that you would accidentally kill or wound some of the children (and their teachers) yourself.

Pacifism in extreme situations becomes morally indefensible.

See the history of early Christianity.

You would even kill Christians. I wouldn’t.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can see you are reluctant to say how you would intervene.

He would pray.
Jesus is at his beck and call.

@Matthias

 

[Matthias]

He would pray.
Jesus is at his beck and call.

@Matthias

I would certainly pray. Wouldn’t you? But I would do more than that.

Do you own a firearm?

 

[GodsGrace]

You’ve made the assumption that if I were armed with a weapon of the world that I would be able to do what even the police aren’t certainly able to do.

Even if you were to show up at a school crime scene armed to the teeth with firearms - and assuming the police didn’t mistake you for the assailant of the school children - there is no guarantee that you would be able to precent even one child from being harmed. There is a high risk that you would accidentally kill or wound some of the children (and their teachers) yourself.



See the history of early Christianity.

You would even kill Christians. I wouldn’t.

I tagged you in because I mentioned you to the other member.

However...we've been through this before and you're entitled to your opinion.
I'm really not willing to debate it.

I don't agree.
Have stated my position.

End of discussion.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would certainly pray, but I would do more than that.

Well, since you're unwilling to state a good alternative,,,the conversation is moot.

 

[Matthias]

Well, since you're unwilling to state a good alternative,,,the conversation is moot.

I would ask to borrow your gun.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would ask to borrow your gun.

So you're against owning a weapon but would be willing to use one in an extreme situation.
That is commendable.
Are you serious?
Why does it feel like a trick reply?
But I don't think you're a trick reply type....

 

[Matthias]

So you're against owning a weapon …

No.

… but would be willing to use one in an extreme situation.

Not to kill someone.

That is commendable.
Are you serious?
Why does it feel like a trick reply?
But I don't think you're a trick reply type....

It wasn’t a trick reply. Would you loan me your gun?

 

[GodsGrace]

No.

Oh I know you so well.

It wasn’t a trick reply. Would you loan me your gun?

Of course it was.

As was your question.

I don't own a gun.

 

[Riven]

You’ve said that killing an enemy for the greater good is still murder. Doesn’t that make it one’s moral and civic duty to murder?

No. Killing an enemy, for whatever reason, is just buisness. Murder is killing innocent people that are not your enemies.

 

[Riven]

Do you own a weapon?

Why are you asking everyone if they own a weapon? Go buy your own.

 

[Matthias]

I don't own a gun.

Then let’s put the question to you that @markalan put to me. How are you going to prevent it?

 

[Matthias]

No. Killing an enemy, for whatever reason, is just buisness.

It’s not the business of Jesus, the apostles, and the followers of Jesus.

Murder is killing innocent people that are not your enemies.

That’s not what you said earlier.