The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[GodsGrace]

I think that this is only partially correct.

Luther said:​

​

“When I was a monk, I wearied myself greatly for almost fifteen years with the daily sacrifice, tortured myself with fasting, vigils, prayers, and other rigorous works. I earnestly thought to acquire righteousness by my works.”​

​

He began to see Christ not as a loving Savior, but as a harsh and terrible judge. This is why Luther wearied himself – and others – nearly to death. He would be in the confessional for hours at a time and then, after leaving, would return again due to some unconfessed sin or to confess that he had not quite been sorrowful enough in his previous confession.​

​

An exasperated mentor of his in the monastery said, “Brother Martin, why don’t you go out and commit some real sins, and come back when you have something to confess?”​

​

Source: The Life of Martin Luther — A Brief Biography of the Reformer

The question always is, how many good works and of what kind are enough? Luther isn't the first person I've seen who became a ******* neurotic seeing Christ as a harsh and terrible judge. And no wonder he grabbed the lifeline he saw.

What I posted is 100% correct.
If Luther was a neurotic,,,it was his own fault,,,not that of the church.


And funny that Triumph gave you a like when you're repeating exactly what I stated.

As to how many good works are needed?
This is a silly question and does now show proper understanding of scripture and what Jesus taugth.

Here is what Jesus taught.....
Do we Protestants believe that we must obey Jesus or not?


Matthew 7:24-27 The Wise Man
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.


Matthew 7:26-27 The Foolish Man
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”



I prefer being like the wise man.
Jesus and HIS teachings are the life line.
If someone is neurotic,,,that is HIS problem, not that of the church.


Here's a question for you...just as silly as yours.

How much faith does it take to be saved?


Let's dispense with the silly questions and repeat what Jesus taught on these theads.

 

[Lambano]

What I posted is 100% correct.
If Luther was a neurotic,,,it was his own fault,,,not that of the church

Physicians are supposed to heal the sick. But in Luther's case, the doctor's prescribed cures made the patient sicker. And since the doctor himself was sick, the community decided they couldn't trust doctors..

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire חסד, not sacrifice.’”

 

[GodsGrace]

Physicians are supposed to heal the sick. But in Luther's case, the doctor's prescribed cures made the patient sicker. And since the doctor himself was sick, the community decided they couldn't trust doctors..

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire חסד, not sacrifice.’”

Not all the community was sick.
Just a few.

Just like today.
Everyone I know here is Catholic...not all are saved.
Among those, there are no neurotics...they seem like well-adjusted persons.

I'm sure there are some that I don't know.
THIS does NOT make the system bad.

Neurotics carry their neurosis with them wherever they go.
Even to their religious affiliation.

How many OSAS'ers do you think there are that believe this because they're living in sin
and cannot clear their conscience except to believe that obedience is not mandatory
and they could never lose their salvation - no matter what.

Lies that will lead some to hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Physicians are supposed to heal the sick. But in Luther's case, the doctor's prescribed cures made the patient sicker. And since the doctor himself was sick, the community decided they couldn't trust doctors..

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire חסד, not sacrifice.’”

Cute image.
But no response to Matthew 7..which is JESUS teaching.

 

[GodsGrace]

Physicians are supposed to heal the sick. But in Luther's case, the doctor's prescribed cures made the patient sicker. And since the doctor himself was sick, the community decided they couldn't trust doctors..

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire חסד, not sacrifice.’”

There would be so much to be said.

"Physicians heal the sick."

How?
By lying to them?

If a person has cancer should the dr tell them to go home and take two aspirin and get some rest?

People have cancer Lambano.
They need to hear the truth.
They need to HEAR and OBEY what Jesus said...
not what they THINK Paul said.
Paul agreed with Jesus...he just made it more difficult to understand and has caused some problems.

Problems that did not exist UNTIL the Reformation.
We're in a mess now.

And many will be lost due to this mess.
God is God...He doesn't issue suggestions...
He issues commands.

 

[Lambano]

Neurotics carry their neurosis with them wherever they go.
Even to their religious affiliation

Though all my friends growing up were Catholic, these days I'm more familiar with my fellow Protestants. The empirical evidence is that religious neuroses are ecumenical. (I use the e-word here just to get a rise out of Amigo.) There are very few Catholics on this forum, and the ones I've seen here are either neurotic also or have been beaten down so much by the Protestants that they're always on the defensive.

 

[GodsGrace]

Though all my friends growing up were Catholic, these days I'm more familiar with my fellow Protestants. The empirical evidence is that religious neuroses are ecumenical. (I use the e-word here just to get a rise out of Amigo.) There are very few Catholics on this forum, and the ones I've seen here are either neurotic also or have been beaten down so much by the Protestants that they're always on the defensive.

Bread is not neurotic but would fall into the second category.
Extreme frustration.
Some of it is caused by incorrect statements made about the CC.

Amigo doesn't need a rise....he is always in a risen state!

I wouldn't use forums as a determining factor for anything.

I like to follow what Jesus said.
We can rest easy in Him.

But we do have to be IN HIM.

 

[GodsGrace]

Though all my friends growing up were Catholic, these days I'm more familiar with my fellow Protestants. The empirical evidence is that religious neuroses are ecumenical. (I use the e-word here just to get a rise out of Amigo.) There are very few Catholics on this forum, and the ones I've seen here are either neurotic also or have been beaten down so much by the Protestants that they're always on the defensive.

Just to remind you that I am protestant...

But I really dislike the CC being accused of what it is not responsible for.

I also protect Protestantism with my Catholic friends (they're all catholic).
Not true...I have one JW friend. When I say friend...I mean friend (not acquaintance).

They also have some misconceptions about Protestants...
however, I NEVER hear a word about Protestantism at a Mass like I hear talk of Catholicism at services.
It's just the lay persons...they have no clue.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know when thee practice began.

It began in the 2nd century but became widespread in the 4th century. Notice how we keep coming back to the 4th century?

No.

Why aren’t you pleased with the Crusaders?

I don't mind. It's a means to an end.

What is the end you are looking for?

That's human history in a nutshell.

Human history is a disaster. The history can’t be changed but it’s in process of being replaced with the new creation, and that started with Jesus of Nazareth - the second Adam - being born into the world. This is God’s rescue plan. The followers of Jesus are in the world but not of the world.

 

[Lambano]

If a person has cancer should the dr tell them to go home and take two aspirin and get some rest?

People have cancer Lambano.
They need to hear the truth.

Luther had a spiritual cancer, all right. But it wasn't the kind that the prescriptions of the time could heal. Jesus also healed that kind of spiritual cancer, but the doctors of the time forgot that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Luther had a spiritual cancer, all right. But it wasn't the kind that the prescriptions of the time could heal. Jesus also healed that kind of spiritual cancer, but the doctors of the time forgot that.

He was a Catholic monk.
He should have known the cure.

The cure is to obey God.
It is NOT faith alone...which is what those that like to make their guilt go away
like to believe.

Your turn.

 

[Lambano]

He was a Catholic monk.
He should have known the cure.

The cure for cancer is to not have cancer? That wasn't Luther's problem. Did you read the article?

 

[GodsGrace]

The cure for cancer is to not have cancer? That wasn't Luther's problem. Did you read the article?

I don't need to read the article.
I've been studying luther for a few years now.
His guilt made a mess of the Christian Religion.
What the CC was doing wrong should have stopped..
and he was right about that.

He over-compensated.
His emotional well-being superseded the theology.
He was WRONG.
Faith Alone is not taught in the NT.

 

[Riven]

It began in the 2nd century but became widespread in the 4th century. Notice how we keep coming back to the 4th century?

What's the connection?

Why aren’t you pleased with the Crusaders?

Because they failed. If you want evidence, look at western Europe today.

What is the end you are looking for?

Detachment. Not too dissimilar to Christianity's idea of dying to one's self.

 

[Matthias]

What's the connection?

The church underwent major change in the 4th century. Constantine’s Act of toleration in 313) lead to Theodosius I declaring Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire (in 380). Christianity became a nation of the world.

Because they failed.

Would you be pleased with the Crusaders if they had succeeded?

Detachment.

Detachment from what? Yourself?

Not too dissimilar to Christianity's idea of dying to one's self.

What is the idea that isn’t “too dissimilar to Christianity’s” idea called?

It sounds to me like you’re looking for something which isn’t Christianity but is something like Christianity.