The Gospel.

[brakelite]

There are certain facets to the gospel that many have forgotten, or are unaware of, and thus do not appreciate how "good" the "good news" really is. So I have taken it upon myself to bring a number of these facets or truths for your perusal. Comment as you wish.

Gospel truth 1. Jesus Christ accomplished something on the cross that applies to ever living human being on the planet...every man,woman, and child throughout all nations and throughout all of time. When Christ "died for all", He tasted "death for every one".

2 Cor. 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


It had to be the second death that He tasted, because the first death we all experience except those who are to be translated at His coming. Therefore there is no reason for anyone to die the second death, unless he deliberately resists or rejects the salvation already given him in Christ.(Hebrews 2:3) It is the second death that we must avoid at all costs. It is the second deathfrom which there is no resurrection, a death for which there is no hope. The second death is eternal, a dearth to which no vestige of life can be attached. Never.
At Christ's baptism, the Father accepted the entire human race "in Him". (Matt. 3:17) Therefore Jesus is already the Savior of all men (John 4:42) thus none need doubt that he/she is accepted by the Lord "in Christ." But Christ is 'especially' the Savior of those who believe (1 Tim. 4:10), for our salvation does not depend on our initiating a relationship with Jesus, but rather it depends on our response to that which He has already initiated with us.
Christ has abolished 'death', (the second death 2 Tim. 1:10). Since no-one need be lost unless he chooses to reject that which Christ has already accopmplished for him, the only reason he can be lost is his unbelief. (John 3:16-19) Jesus has "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Tim 1:10) ..... for every one, believers and ubelievers, He has brought " life",..... and for those who believe, He has brought "immortality."

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The above describes what Christ has accomplished for all men. It is a verdict of "aquittal" for all men, or :"justification". However, like the slaves who hadn't heard, or didn't believe in Lincolns Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, we may choose to walk out into freedom, or not. We have all been legally found "not guilty"....
Sadly, the vast majority of the human race will spurn it and throw it away. Let us not say of Christ "We will not have this Man to reign over us", and thrust the blessing of God away from us.

 

[Purity]

At Christ's baptism, the Father accepted the entire human race "in Him". (Matt. 3:17)

O dear Brakelite - what are you doing?!

Do you honestly believe every human being who ever existed will be raised for judgement; placed in Christs baptism and death?

"The man (of flesh and blood) that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead."

No hope of life in his first death! But what of those who have never heard of Jesus Christ - they are the beasts that perish!

Only the "responsible" are raised from death.

Daniel's visions concerning Christ's second coming, included one of this judgment seat in the form of a throne (Dan. 7:9-14).

The parables help to flesh out the details a lot. That of the talents likens it to the return of a master, who calls his servants and assesses how well they have used the money which he had left them (Matt. 25:14-29). The parable of the fishermen likens the call of the gospel to a fishing net, gathering all kinds of people (not all people!); the men then sat down (cp. the judgment sitting) and divided the good fish from the bad (Matt. 13:47-49).

The interpretation is clear:

"At the end of the world the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just".

Many will remain completely and utterly dead - nothing - not a breath!

P.

Matt. 3:17) Therefore Jesus is already the Savior of all men (John 4:42)

This is gross misreading of the Word.

God being pleased with his Son and his eventual sacrifice did not save all the people in the earth.

Acts 15:14

Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles

A people not all people!

Every time you post brakelite you prove to all you know not the true God of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Tim 1:10) ..... for every one, believers and ubelievers, He has brought " life",..... and for those who believe, He has brought "immortality."

How can this be true Brakelike if you believe you already possess an immortal soul?

How can Christ bring immortality to light if you already possess it?

Or maybe you don't!

 

[brakelite]

O dear Brakelite - what are you doing?!

Do you honestly believe every human being who ever existed will be raised for judgement; placed in Christs baptism and death?

"The man (of flesh and blood) that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead."

No hope of life in his first death! But what of those who have never heard of Jesus Christ - they are the beasts that perish!

Only the "responsible" are raised from death.

Daniel's visions concerning Christ's second coming, included one of this judgment seat in the form of a throne (Dan. 7:9-14).

The parables help to flesh out the details a lot. That of the talents likens it to the return of a master, who calls his servants and assesses how well they have used the money which he had left them (Matt. 25:14-29). The parable of the fishermen likens the call of the gospel to a fishing net, gathering all kinds of people (not all people!); the men then sat down (cp. the judgment sitting) and divided the good fish from the bad (Matt. 13:47-49).

Yes, everyone is raised to judgement, but no, not all are included in Christ's death.
At the beginning of the millenium, the righteous are raised from their graves, and the living righteous are translated. These return with Jesus to the mansions He has prepared for them that love Him. The rest of the dead, that is everyone else, are raised at the end of the 1000 years.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John 14:1 ¶ Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"At the end of the world the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just".

Many will remain completely and utterly dead - nothing - not a breath!

Until they are raised at the end of the 1000 years to face their final sentence. The second death. Jesus spoke of this, two seperate resurrections; the first for the righteous at His coming, the second at the end of the 1000 years.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

P.

This is gross misreading of the Word.

God being pleased with his Son and his eventual sacrifice did not save all the people in the earth.

Acts 15:14

Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles

A people not all people!

No, not my gross misreading of the word, your gross misreading of my post! I did not say that alll the people of the earth are saved. I said that Christ died for all people of the earth. It is up to each individual to choose whether he desires to be saved by accepting the sacrifice provided for him, or to reject it. The texts I quoted make this abundantly clear.

I am well aware that the road to eternal life is narrow, and few find it.

Every time you post brakelite you prove to all you know not the true God of Jesus Christ.

How can this be true Brakelike if you believe you already possess an immortal soul?

How can Christ bring immortality to light if you already possess it?

Or maybe you don't!

No-one possesses a soul purity, much less an immortal one. Genesis is clear...Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul....man is a soul, he doesn't possess a soul. As to being immortal, Genesis is just as clear, corroborated by declarations of man's mortality throughout the word of God.
Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Now if you know of anyone who managed to get past that flaming sword and eat of that tree, then I would love to meet him...

So how do we receive immortality, and when????

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.....its a gift....

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;...it is something we have a hope for....

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.....this hope or promise comes through Jesus....

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent...eternal life comes through a personal relationship with Jesus and the Father...

1 Cor. 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?....and most importantly, it comes to us at the resurrection; this is the Christian hope.

So, in response to your suggestion that maybe I dont believe I have eternal life, you are right, I dont. But I do have a promise from God Himself who cannot lie, that I will be given eternal life, therefore I can be assured that the time will come when I will receive the gift of immortality at the time of the second coming, whether I am living or die prior to that grand event matters not...either way I will be going to heaven with Jesus.

 

[Purity]

Yes, everyone is raised to judgement, but no, not all are included in Christ's death.

Read 1 Peter 4 to begin with cmp Dan 12:2NET

4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin, starting with the house42 of God. And if it starts with us, what will be the fate43 of those who are disobedient to the gospel of God? 4:18 And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the ungodly and sinners?45 4:19 So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls to a faithful Creator as they do good.

How many groups are deemed responsible for judgement? (read it carefully)

Conclusion: Only those responsible will be raised to judgement - God would be "unjust" to condemn a person to the grave a second time who never witness His light.

TBC.

At the beginning of the millenium, the righteous are raised from their graves, and the living righteous are translated.

The Word of God is emphatic the Wheat and Tares are raised together.

These return with Jesus to the mansions He has prepared for them that love Him. The rest of the dead, that is everyone else, are raised at the end of the 1000 years.

Heaven is not the promised reward for the saints. Rev 5:10 remember Dan 2 & 7 the stone fills the whole earth!

The ref to “Father’s House” Jesus identifies with Jerusalem John 2:16; Mark 11:15-17.

Old Testament Micah 4:1-2 Also spiritual house 1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:20; Heb 3:6

“Many Mansions” – “abiding places”. Only other occurrence “abode” John 14:23 (RV mg). Roth: “many dwellings”

“I Go To Prepare A Place” – this is the way the Ark was led out of Sinai Num 10:33. Nothing can be achieved until the establishment of a mediator Rom 8:17, 32

New Jerusalem is what Jesus is bringing (in mind) and eventually in reality upon the earth.

No, not my gross misreading of the word, your gross misreading of my post! I did not say that alll the people of the earth are saved. I said that Christ died for all people of the earth. It is up to each individual to choose whether he desires to be saved by accepting the sacrifice provided for him, or to reject it. The texts I quoted make this abundantly clear.

You suggested everyone was placed in Christ at his death which is false only a conscious willing mind can enter the New Covenant informed of the one who died for them. Only through covenant!

No-one possesses a soul purity, much less an immortal one. Genesis is clear...Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul....man is a soul, he doesn't possess a soul. As to being immortal,

Genesis is just as clear, corroborated by declarations of man's mortality throughout the word of God.

Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Now if you know of anyone who managed to get past that flaming sword and eat of that tree, then I would love to meet him...

So how do we receive immortality, and when????

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.....its a gift....

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;...it is something we have a hope for....

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.....this hope or promise comes through Jesus....

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent...eternal life comes through a personal relationship with Jesus and the Father...

1 Cor. 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?....and most importantly, it comes to us at the resurrection; this is the Christian hope.

So, in response to your suggestion that maybe I dont believe I have eternal life, you are right, I dont. But I do have a promise from God Himself who cannot lie, that I will be given eternal life, therefore I can be assured that the time will come when I will receive the gift of immortality at the time of the second coming, whether I am living or die prior to that grand event matters not...either way I will be going to heaven with Jesus.

Brakelite, if this is truly what you believe, it is unorthodox of you to not believe in the immortality of a soul - I will be surprised if other Christians here don't take offence.

So you must believe man ceases to exist totally upon death?

 

[brakelite]

If Christ had not died for the world, we would have all persishd. The Father laid upon Jesus the trespasses of the entire world. 2 Cor. 5:19; Isaiah 53:5,6. Therefore in reality Christ's sacrifice has justified "all men" by giving them a legal "verdict of aquital" in place of that judgement of condemnation in Adam. (Romans 3:23,24; Rom. 5:15-18.) When the sinner hears and believes this truth, he experiences justification by faith. (Romans 4:25; Eph. 2:8-10)

Read 1 Peter 4 to begin with cmp Dan 12:2NET

4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin, starting with the house42 of God. And if it starts with us, what will be the fate43 of those who are disobedient to the gospel of God? 4:18 And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the ungodly and sinners?45 4:19 So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls to a faithful Creator as they do good.

How many groups are deemed responsible for judgement? (read it carefully)

Conclusion: Only those responsible will be raised to judgement - God would be "unjust" to condemn a person to the grave a second time who never witness His light.

TBC.

The lost deliberately neagte the provision made for them in Christ and take back the condemnation upon themselves thrpough unbelief. (Hebrews 10:29; 2 Cor. 6:1)

Believers can say that "He HImself is the propitiation for our sins", but it is "not for ours only, but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)" For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish. " John 3:16
Since He paid the price for all our sins, the only reason anyone is lost is a refusal to believe, to appreciate, the gift already given "in Christ". John 3:18 The Lord does not put us in double jeopardy, for :the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all" Isaiah 53:6
How can He lay that iniquity upon us again Paul asks (Romans 8:33-39); the lost take it back upon themselves.

By the righteousness of one, the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. There is no exception here.

The Word of God is emphatic the Wheat and Tares are raised together.

Yes, they are raised together...but not harvested together.
Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Heaven is not the promised reward for the saints. Rev 5:10 remember Dan 2 & 7 the stone fills the whole earth!

The ref to “Father’s House” Jesus identifies with Jerusalem John 2:16; Mark 11:15-17.

Old Testament Micah 4:1-2 Also spiritual house 1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:20; Heb 3:6

“Many Mansions” – “abiding places”. Only other occurrence “abode” John 14:23 (RV mg). Roth: “many dwellings”

“I Go To Prepare A Place” – this is the way the Ark was led out of Sinai Num 10:33. Nothing can be achieved until the establishment of a mediator Rom 8:17, 32

New Jerusalem is what Jesus is bringing (in mind) and eventually in reality upon the earth.

Yes, eventually the New Jerusalem will be aupon the earth, at the end of the 1000 years. A new heavens and a new earth will be the home of the righteous. Eventually. In the meantime we go to heaven. I for one have no desire to be living upon the earth during the millenium when everyone else is dead. The reign of Christ actually upon the earth is a myth. Nowehere in scipture is this suggested in relation to the milenium.

You suggested everyone was placed in Christ at his death which is false only a conscious willing mind can enter the New Covenant informed of the one who died for them. Only through covenant!

As to everyone being placed "in Christ" I believe I have explained this sufficiently. If you still don't "get it" read my posts again. If you still don't get it after that, then there is nothing to be gained by my going over at all again.

Brakelite, if this is truly what you believe, it is unorthodox of you to not believe in the immortality of a soul - I will be surprised if other Christians here don't take offence.

So you must believe man ceases to exist totally upon death?

Since when has man's ideas of "orthodoxy" ever equated to truth? At least 50 million "unorthodox" Christians were slain during the dark ages by the "orthodox" church.
Man ceases to be conscious of His existence, becauser his thoughts persish. But he continues to exist in that his name is written in the Lamb's book, and he continues to exist in the memory of His creator.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you folks for caring!

"No one needs to be lost"? Unbelief, or a lack of agape for the truth? My point, one has to confront enough truth not that mixed with error, not having an agape for that truth before charged with unbelief from heaven.

Who has that truth, ie, I sure don't.

Old truthful Jack

 

[Purity]

The Father laid upon Jesus the trespasses of the entire world. 2 Cor. 5:19; Isaiah 53:5,6.

So how are your sins laid upon Jesus?

 

[brakelite]

In the OT the temple serecies, the priesthood, etc were a type of the gospel. To the nation of Israel. it was the gospel. It presented in graphic detail and in types and shadows, the ministry and work of the coming Messiah. When the sinner brought his animal, eg a lamb, to sacrifice, the sinner would lay his hands upon the innocent lamb, confess his sins, and slay the animal. His sins were thus transfered to the innocent animal, which died in his place. The blood of the now departed saicrifice was then transferred to the the temple to be sprinkled before the veil, thus in type, transferring the sins to the temple.
Once a year these 'sins' were removed on the day of atonement, Yom Kippur, the holiest and most solemn of all days for Israel, a day of judgement, a day of deep consecration and self examination. If anyone had not confessed and repented they were cut off from Israel.

All the festivals, services, items of furniture, were types and hed thier antitypical fulfillment in Christ. Christ became the passover Lamb. we are baptised into His death (the laver), Christ is the Bread of Life, (the shewbread), the Light (the candlestick) the sole intercessor (the altar of incense), and we are recreated by Him into His image that we may keep His law which was held within His throne.

Our sins are ladi upon HIm much in a same fashion as the sinner laid his iniquities upon the lamb. Through confession and repentance. In Israels' case they looked forward to the day when their Messiah would take upon Himself the iniquities of every person. (Isaiah 53) we as Christians look back to that day. It however only becomes effective for us as we confess, repent, and believe the gospel.

But I suspect you already know all this and have studied Christian thought and practice previously, , bot do not choose to believe it, opting for a way in which sin and iniquity is seen as being of a much less offensive thing to God than the rest of us, seeing you believe a mere man can atone for a sin against a law of the Almighty God.

 

[Purity]

In the OT the temple serecies, the priesthood, etc were a type of the gospel. To the nation of Israel. it was the gospel. It presented in graphic detail and in types and shadows, the ministry and work of the coming Messiah. When the sinner brought his animal, eg a lamb, to sacrifice, the sinner would lay his hands upon the innocent lamb, confess his sins, and slay the animal. His sins were thus transfered to the innocent animal, which died in his place. The blood of the now departed saicrifice was then transferred to the the temple to be sprinkled before the veil, thus in type, transferring the sins to the temple.
Once a year these 'sins' were removed on the day of atonement, Yom Kippur, the holiest and most solemn of all days for Israel, a day of judgement, a day of deep consecration and self examination. If anyone had not confessed and repented they were cut off from Israel.

All the festivals, services, items of furniture, were types and hed thier antitypical fulfillment in Christ. Christ became the passover Lamb. we are baptised into His death (the laver), Christ is the Bread of Life, (the shewbread), the Light (the candlestick) the sole intercessor (the altar of incense), and we are recreated by Him into His image that we may keep His law which was held within His throne.

Our sins are ladi upon HIm much in a same fashion as the sinner laid his iniquities upon the lamb. Through confession and repentance. In Israels' case they looked forward to the day when their Messiah would take upon Himself the iniquities of every person. (Isaiah 53) we as Christians look back to that day. It however only becomes effective for us as we confess, repent, and believe the gospel.

But I suspect you already know all this and have studied Christian thought and practice previously, , bot do not choose to believe it, opting for a way in which sin and iniquity is seen as being of a much less offensive thing to God than the rest of us, seeing you believe a mere man can atone for a sin against a law of the Almighty God.

Brakelite,

While I really enjoyed your post and I concur with it all it wasn't what I was asking.

Your life was totally unknown to Jesus Christ 2000 years ago - you were not even born - so how were your sins represented in his body?

P.

 

[shturt678]

Brakelite,

While I really enjoyed your post and I concur with it all it wasn't what I was asking.

Your life was totally unknown to Jesus Christ 2000 years ago - you were not even born - so how were your sins represented in his body?

P.

Thank you for caring again!

Only a head's up. brakelite's life was totally known to Jesus already back in eternity - looooooooooooooooong time ago (Eph.1:11) for openers.

Old also known Jack - I hope anyway.

 

[Purity]

Thank you for caring again!

Only a head's up. brakelite's life was totally known to Jesus already back in eternity - looooooooooooooooong time ago (Eph.1:11) for openers.

Old also known Jack - I hope anyway.

Yes, the same a Jesus, I know. 1 Peter 1:20

All God's created children are known to Him before the foundation of the world.

P.

 

[shturt678]

Yes, the same a Jesus, I know. 1 Peter 1:20

All God's created children are known to Him before the foundation of the world.

P.

Thank you for your response!

Except for Jesus, ie, for God, Christ was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," Rev.13:8.

Old created Jack

 

[Purity]

Thank you for your response!

Except for Jesus, ie, for God, Christ was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," Rev.13:8.

Old created Jack

God is not a sacrifice for sin - He makes the sacrifice - Hes the offerer not the offering

But keep trying Old Jack...in time you may get there if He wills.

 

[shturt678]

God is not a sacrifice for sin - He makes the sacrifice - Hes the offerer not the offering

But keep trying Old Jack...in time you may get there if He wills.

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Maybe you're right, however I do get Acts3:13, 14, "....His Servant Jesus....v.14..."Author of life.." Again this is the great Godman of Isaiah, chapters 40-66, who is His Son, indeed, but the Son who by His incarnation became "His Servant" God to work out our salvation in both natures, ie, God and man.

I almost forgot about Matt.27:46 The agony suffered on the Cross, ie, Jesus does not lament that the divine nature or it's divine powers have forsaken Him, but that antoher Peson ("thou") has left Him. Jesus = God.

Old Jack

 

[Purity]

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Maybe you're right

I am.

 

[brakelite]

God is not a sacrifice for sin - He makes the sacrifice - Hes the offerer not the offering

Your Christadelphian cultish deceptions blind you to truth. No created being could atone for the transgression of God's laws. Just as no-one else could forgive someone who offended me...only I can offer forgiveness for such...so also only God can forgive those who have transgressed His own laws. That is precisley why Jesus had the power to forgive. God didn't 'give' Jesus the power to fogive becauseHe was somehow deserving, or earned it, but rather it was granted Him as of right...He was entitled to forgive because as God it was His own law that was transgressed. The Father did not send someone else to die to atone for man's transgression. The Son Himself, as being One with the Father throughout all eternity, offered Himself a sacrifice for many. God did not put to death His Son, Jesus gave His life voluntarily. He was both the Priest and the Lamb.

In seeking us, Christcame all theway to where we are, taking upon Himself "the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin the flesh". Thus He is a Savior "nigh at hand, not far off". He "is the Savior of all men" even" the cheif of sinners". But sinners have the freedom to refuse Him and reject Him.

His name is 'Immanuel'...God with us. (Matt 1:23) Thougth He was "in the form of Godf, "He was made a little lower than the angels", "made of a woman, made under the law", "in all things ...made like unto His brethren", "made to be sin for us, who knew no sin. "As children are partakers of flesh He lalso Himself likewise took part of the same", and was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin".

Christ deliberately set aside His divine nature and took upon Himself man's nature and as a consequence was subject to death. He came into the world on purpose to die; and so from the beginning of His earthly life He was in the sdame condition that men are in, whom He came to save.

Your willful blindness to anything apart from Christdelphian doctrine proves you incapableof understanding the most basic of salvational doctrines...namely the essential belief that one ,must be born again spiritually and receive the Holy Spirit of God before one can see or understand the things of God

 

[shturt678]

Your Christadelphian cultish deceptions blind you to truth. No created being could atone for the transgression of God's laws. Just as no-one else could forgive someone who offended me...only I can offer forgiveness for such...so also only God can forgive those who have transgressed His own laws. That is precisley why Jesus had the power to forgive. God didn't 'give' Jesus the power to fogive becauseHe was somehow deserving, or earned it, but rather it was granted Him as of right...He was entitled to forgive because as God it was His own law that was transgressed. The Father did not send someone else to die to atone for man's transgression. The Son Himself, as being One with the Father throughout all eternity, offered Himself a sacrifice for many. God did not put to death His Son, Jesus gave His life voluntarily. He was both the Priest and the Lamb.

In seeking us, Christcame all theway to where we are, taking upon Himself "the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin the flesh". Thus He is a Savior "nigh at hand, not far off". He "is the Savior of all men" even" the cheif of sinners". But sinners have the freedom to refuse Him and reject Him.

His name is 'Immanuel'...God with us. (Matt 1:23) Thougth He was "in the form of Godf, "He was made a little lower than the angels", "made of a woman, made under the law", "in all things ...made like unto His brethren", "made to be sin for us, who knew no sin. "As children are partakers of flesh He lalso Himself likewise took part of the same", and was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin".

Christ deliberately set aside His divine nature and took upon Himself man's nature and as a consequence was subject to death. He came into the world on purpose to die; and so from the beginning of His earthly life He was in the sdame condition that men are in, whom He came to save.

Your willful blindness to anything apart from Christdelphian doctrine proves you incapableof understanding the most basic of salvational doctrines...namely the essential belief that one ,must be born again spiritually and receive the Holy Spirit of God before one can see or understand the things of God

Excellent! I even took some notes on this one - thank you!

Old Jack

 

[Purity]

Your Christadelphian cultish deceptions blind you to truth. No created being could atone for the transgression of God's laws.

That's the point Brakelite - he had to be taken from among men for Gods righteousness to be upheld.

Have ye not read?

Heb 10:5 So when he came into the world, he said, 'Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me.

What type of body? divine? pure? uncondemned?

As I have said many times Brakelite you do not understand atoning principles.

Just as no-one else could forgive someone who offended me...only I can offer forgiveness for such...so also only God can forgive those who have transgressed His own laws.

A sinless man can forgive you of every sin he himself had never transgressed.

That is precisley why Jesus had the power to forgive.

If only you understood forgiveness Matt 18:21

God didn't 'give' Jesus the power to fogive because He was somehow deserving, or earned it, but rather it was granted Him as of right...He was entitled to forgive because as God it was His own law that was transgressed.

(shaking my head in disbelief)

All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17)

So one who was made righteousness (God working in a Son) could he forgive sin who knew no sin? Where is the basis of forgiveness God's alone?

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Of course Jesus was made sin (or flesh) for this to occur as the flesh is the battlefield for righteousness.

You are correct it was a "right" established upon obedience to his Father.

The Father did not send someone else to die to atone for man's transgression. The Son Himself, as being One with the Father throughout all eternity, offered Himself a sacrifice for many. God did not put to death His Son, Jesus gave His life voluntarily. He was both the Priest and the Lamb.

Yes but not God - God cannot be intercessor or animal - He is Yahweh Who is above all and in all.

In seeking us, Christ came all theway to where we are, taking upon Himself "the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin the flesh". Thus He is a Savior "nigh at hand, not far off". He "is the Savior of all men" even" the cheif of sinners". But sinners have the freedom to refuse Him and reject Him.

So how was sin represented in Christs flesh - you cannot condemn something if its not there!

His name is 'Immanuel'...God with us. (Matt 1:23)

Yes, Isaiah is "Yahweh is Salvation" but Isaiah is not God!

Thougth He was "in the form of Godf, "He was made a little lower than the angels", "made of a woman, made under the law", "in all things ...made like unto His brethren", "made to be sin for us, who knew no sin. "As children are partakers of flesh He lalso Himself likewise took part of the same", and was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin".

Christ deliberately set aside His divine nature and took upon Himself man's nature and as a consequence was subject to death. He came into the world on purpose to die; and so from the beginning of His earthly life He was in the sdame condition that men are in, whom He came to save.

Your willful blindness to anything apart from Christdelphian doctrine proves you incapableof understanding the most basic of salvational doctrines...namely the essential belief that one ,must be born again spiritually and receive the Holy Spirit of God before one can see or understand the things of God

No, Phil 2 is expressly speaking about "status" i.e. a Son choosing servitude and forsaking the privileges that any Son has of his Father. If my son chose similarly it does not mean he takes on my nature only that his standing before me changes - he forsakes certain authority which he would otherwise have.

Conclusion:

The word "sin" is used in two ways in the Scriptures.

1. "the transgression of law,
2. It represents that physical principle of the animal nature which is the cause of all its diseases, death and resolution to dust.

Jesus took part in point 2 but never morally sinned - therefore he with His Fathers Word overcame every sin you committed therefore he can with his Father forgive sin - only on the basis of obedience can one forgive another their sin.

In fact, if the truth be fully known Brakelite, it was "through" this man Jesus which the Father forgave sins. Acts 10:43

Earlier in Acts 2:38 we read of the remissions of those sins which is found in Christ Jesus.

The word "remission" is the Greek aphesis which means "to let go," as was the second scapegoat into the wilderness, typically bearing the sins of the people (Lev 16:10) — the first goat having been offered. Both together represented the principle of acknowledgement of sins, and the bearing of them away. The word is rendered: "deliverance," "forgiveness," "liberty," "remission." See Isa 59:2; Hab 3:13; Luk 24:47; Act 10:43; Rom 3:25; Heb 9:22.

By complete identification with the sacrificial work of Christ, opportunity is given for sins to be taken out of the way; thus covered over (Heb. kaphar) as by the mercy seat in the work of atonement.

This work can only take place through a mediator between God and Man - the Man Christ Jesus...hence we go Brakelite to Psa. 110, for forgiveness could only be obtained through a mediator and high priest. Psa 110:4 declares that Christ would be "a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek," an office the Lord could only have held after his ascension into heaven (Heb 8:4).

That is where the Lord is now as High Priest - Not God or a God-Man but a High Priest taken from among man to mediate between God and Man - Christ Jesus our Lord!

Only now that Christ has entered into the Most Holy is there no condemnation for those in him Rom 8:1

So is it the righteousness of Jesus AS God which has been revealed? Rom 1:17

Nah!

The Righteousness of God alone. Foundation principle of the Gospel as per Rom 3:25,26 (read it carefully Brakelite)

Even the Law righteous Holy and Good condemned God!

O that's right it condemned Jesus.

Rom 3:25 is the basis of the atonement - a pure sinless mortal life in obedience...declared the righteousness of God - AND NOT THAT JESUS WAS GOD.

Amen and Amen

 

[shturt678]

That's the point Brakelite - he had to be taken from among men for Gods righteousness to be upheld.

Have ye not read?

Heb 10:5 So when he came into the world, he said, 'Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me.

What type of body? divine? pure? uncondemned?

As I have said many times Brakelite you do not understand atoning principles.


A sinless man can forgive you of every sin he himself had never transgressed.


If only you understood forgiveness Matt 18:21


(shaking my head in disbelief)

All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17)

So one who was made righteousness (God working in a Son) could he forgive sin who knew no sin? Where is the basis of forgiveness God's alone?

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Of course Jesus was made sin (or flesh) for this to occur as the flesh is the battlefield for righteousness.

You are correct it was a "right" established upon obedience to his Father.


Yes but not God - God cannot be intercessor or animal - He is Yahweh Who is above all and in all.


So how was sin represented in Christs flesh - you cannot condemn something if its not there!


Yes, Isaiah is "Yahweh is Salvation" but Isaiah is not God!


No, Phil 2 is expressly speaking about "status" i.e. a Son choosing servitude and forsaking the privileges that any Son has of his Father. If my son chose similarly it does not mean he takes on my nature only that his standing before me changes - he forsakes certain authority which he would otherwise have.

Conclusion:

The word "sin" is used in two ways in the Scriptures.

1. "the transgression of law,
2. It represents that physical principle of the animal nature which is the cause of all its diseases, death and resolution to dust.

Jesus took part in point 2 but never morally sinned - therefore he with His Fathers Word overcame every sin you committed therefore he can with his Father forgive sin - only on the basis of obedience can one forgive another their sin.

In fact, if the truth be fully known Brakelite, it was "through" this man Jesus which the Father forgave sins. Acts 10:43

Earlier in Acts 2:38 we read of the remissions of those sins which is found in Christ Jesus.

The word "remission" is the Greek aphesis which means "to let go," as was the second scapegoat into the wilderness, typically bearing the sins of the people (Lev 16:10) — the first goat having been offered. Both together represented the principle of acknowledgement of sins, and the bearing of them away. The word is rendered: "deliverance," "forgiveness," "liberty," "remission." See Isa 59:2; Hab 3:13; Luk 24:47; Act 10:43; Rom 3:25; Heb 9:22.

By complete identification with the sacrificial work of Christ, opportunity is given for sins to be taken out of the way; thus covered over (Heb. kaphar) as by the mercy seat in the work of atonement.

This work can only take place through a mediator between God and Man - the Man Christ Jesus...hence we go Brakelite to Psa. 110, for forgiveness could only be obtained through a mediator and high priest. Psa 110:4 declares that Christ would be "a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek," an office the Lord could only have held after his ascension into heaven (Heb 8:4).

That is where the Lord is now as High Priest - Not God or a God-Man but a High Priest taken from among man to mediate between God and Man - Christ Jesus our Lord!

Only now that Christ has entered into the Most Holy is there no condemnation for those in him Rom 8:1

So is it the righteousness of Jesus AS God which has been revealed? Rom 1:17

Nah!

The Righteousness of God alone. Foundation principle of the Gospel as per Rom 3:25,26 (read it carefully Brakelite)

Even the Law righteous Holy and Good condemned God!

O that's right it condemned Jesus.

Rom 3:25 is the basis of the atonement - a pure sinless mortal life in obedience...declared the righteousness of God - AND NOT THAT JESUS WAS GOD.

Amen and Amen

Thank you folks for caring again!

All I need to do is move you fast forward to Rom.5:10a where we were reconciled by God to God. Note "his Son."

Old Jack