The Great Apostasy

[bbyrd009]

That is the reality of all who are born of the linage of Adam...which is everyone.

um, i dunno about this "sinners born into the world" part though, or i mean i know only too well lol, Quote it and let's see i guess.
It's not in There tho, honest. It's another Catholic Lie

now As long as the world manufactures sinners, it is greatly against the righteousness of God, that i can agree with

 

[ScottA]

um, i dunno about this "sinners born into the world" part though, or i mean i know only too well lol, Quote it and let's see i guess.
It's not in There tho, honest. It's another Catholic Lie

now As long as the world manufactures sinners, it is greatly against the righteousness of God, that i can agree with

Romans 5:12
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—"

God has not produced a world of sinners, but has cast them out of His presence into prison as captives, with a plan of salvation. And this, by His great mercy, grace, and righteousness.

 

[bbyrd009]

Romans 5:12
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—"

we are told elsewhere that ppl sin "from their youth" ergo not "from the womb" and we also know that babies cannot sin, and even certain adults who cannot ever attain the Age of Accountability, so this v is obviously not sufficient to your purpose, sorry

 

[ScottA]

we are told elsewhere that ppl sin "from their youth" ergo not "from the womb" and we also know that babies cannot sin, and even certain adults who cannot ever attain the Age of Accountability, so this v is obviously not sufficient to your purpose, sorry

No, we all are born out of sin, i.e., "in Adam." All are born "in kind." In this case, that is "fallen."

The scriptures are pretty clear: "All have fallen short."

Do you have something on the age of accountability, from [before] youth, or such?

 

[farouk]

Hello @friend of ,
"I've noticed that younger generations have far less engagement with the churches I've attended recently. I look around and see the pews packed with older folks, but youth seem to be a rare sight. Is this a sign of the times? In a few more decades, churches are foreseeably set to lose a sizable percentage of attendees if younger generations don't engage and pick up where our parents and grandparents left off."

This could also have something to do with location?
I can only speak from what I am now experiencing within my local bodies and where I now attend are many young people...more so than older folks. My "other" Church-lol-has many elderly but also has a ton of children, there are lot's of generations there and the youth ministry in both places is awesome. Idk, I suppose it is different all over with demographics?

I think the urban demographics of parts of NY have changed vastly, right?

 

[Nancy]

No, we all are born out of sin, i.e., "in Adam." All are born "in kind." In this case, that is "fallen."

The scriptures are pretty clear: "All have fallen short."

Do you have something on the age of accountability, from [before] youth, or such?

I have often wondered about the "age of accountability". It seems that the Hebrew tradition of the Bar and Bat Mitzvah might look at the age of 12? And then you have a scripture about 'he who knows to do right and does not, will be judged' it's in the bible in some variation, lol

 

[farouk]

I have often wondered about the "age of accountability". It seems that the Hebrew tradition of the Bar and Bat Mitzvah might look at the age of 12? And then you have a scripture about 'he who knows to do right and does not, will be judged' it's in the bible in some variation, lol

I would reckon its a Godward thing, first and foremost...

 

[ScottA]

I have often wondered about the "age of accountability". It seems that the Hebrew tradition of the Bar and Bat Mitzvah might look at the age of 12? And then you have a scripture about 'he who knows to do right and does not, will be judged' it's in the bible in some variation, lol

Yeah, even though we would like to consider children as being without sin, I think we have to go back to who and what we are children of, meaning of the fallen. Otherwise we go against “There is none righteous, no, not one;"

 

[101G]

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

that is done,

but the the most frightening thing is to be in church and be a none believer. because,
2Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thess 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God is sending a strong delusion, that's bad, (for the none believer). so no matter what, the Great Apostasy is coming, only, as said, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first.

 

[Enoch111]

um, i dunno about this "sinners born into the world" part though, or i mean i know only too well lol, Quote it and let's see i guess.
It's not in There tho, honest. It's another Catholic Lie

You can blame the Catholics for a lot, but not this.

Here is what is stated in Scripture, and is applicable to all human beings: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Ps 51:5).

These are the words of David by divine inspiration. It should be clear that while he is referring to himself, he is not necessarily referring to his parents having him illegitimately. David was the son of Jesse, and there is nothing in the Bible that says that either Jesse or his wife were evil, or having illicit sexual intercourse. So what is this verse telling us?

Because of Adam, ever human being is born *in sin* -- with a sin nature -- and that every mother and father is also a sinner by birth and by choice. *There is none righteous, no not one*. Therefore the Gospel is for *every creature* and all need to be saved by grace.

 

[friend of]

The falling away and the departure, is the separation from God, which is to be born in the flesh ("As a star falling from heaven."). For this very reason Jesus preached that men "must be born again of the spirit of God."

So then you are saying the day of the Lord has come already, on an individual basis to those who are born again in Spirit. Am I following you correctly?

 

[ScottA]

So then you are saying the day of the Lord has come already, on an individual basis to those who are born again in Spirit. Am I following you correctly?

You are speaking of something I said elsewhere, but yes.

What I was just saying above, however, is that it is wrong to wait for "the falling away" that comes first before the return of the Lord - because "the falling away" began...with "the fall." And we are now living in the time of Christ's coming in the flesh, His reign and His salvation upon the earth.

What Paul was saying in the assumed great apostasy passage, was simply an assurance that if you are living in the flesh, not to worry - you didn't miss anything, for that is what comes first (then the spirit, then the end). And, yes, he also clarified the timing, as "each in his own order."

 

[Enoch111]

What Paul was saying in the assumed great apostasy passage, was simply an assurance that if you are living in the flesh, not to worry - you didn't miss anything, for that is what comes first (then the spirit, then the end). And, yes, he also clarified the timing, as "each in his own order."

That's a rather imaginative way of interpreting Scripture.

 

[friend of]

Scott A I appreciate your postings here but I'm not sure I can fully get on board with your interpretation of that passage in scripture. Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians about Christ's returning, when he mentions the "day of Christ." I feel he is speaking about an appointed time when Christ will literally return, which is why Paul is reassuring the born again Thessalonians that that day has not yet come.

If a falling away happens first, then that means that people are already in a state of existence before falling in order to be alive to fall at all.

Further, if "that man of sin" is Adam, the first man, then I think Paul would have clarified it at this time, as there would be no reason to conceal said fact as he is writing to edify the Thessalonians, not to be cryptic. I don't believe the (singular) son of perdition describes Adam, nor do I feel it describes us on a personal, relational level, as not all who are acknowledged sinners are so proud as to exalt themselves above all called God.

 

[bbyrd009]

we all are born out of sin, i.e., "in Adam." All are born "in kind." In this case, that is "fallen."

The scriptures are pretty clear: "All have fallen short."

Do you have something on the age of accountability, from [before] youth, or such?

oh ya, sorry, i thought the phrase would do, um, sinners from a young age or something like that, but even your ref will do; all have fallen short certainly implies a prior state of 'unfallen?' Babies cannot sin, and anyone who cannot determine right from wrong cannot sin, this is even est'd in law?

 

[bbyrd009]

Here is what is stated in Scripture, and is applicable to all human beings: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Ps 51:5).

that was mom's prob, not the kid's though, seems to me from a simple reading of the v? i get that there is apparent support for either pov, and i suggest that the "we are all born evil" one is easily dismissed, even if it is also true in a certain sense.

 

[ScottA]

That's a rather imaginative way of interpreting Scripture.

How might you reassure your brethren without giving the complete details but reveal just enough to assure those of every future generation until the end? No doubt Paul could not have said it just right either...but then again, it would not have been him talking, but the Holy Spirit. And yet the complete details should come to light at the end. Check your watch.

 

[ScottA]

oh ya, sorry, i thought the phrase would do, um, sinners from a young age or something like that, but even your ref will do; all have fallen short certainly implies a prior state of 'unfallen?' Babies cannot sin, and anyone who cannot determine right from wrong cannot sin, this is even est'd in law?

That is a compassionate notion, but even babes are born out of sin or of righteousness, and there is only One begotten of righteousness. All others are born of the linage of Adam, a sinner...making the father of them all, Satan. This Jesus even said of the leaders and priests of Israel.

 

[CoreIssue]

We are warned in Galatians about denominationalism. The following of the doctrines of one man or group. No thinking for yourself.

Be good little boys and girls, read this doctrinal book and sign a membership form saying you will follow it and defend it without question.

The fruit of that is hollowness and indoctrination.

Young people have questions that are not been answered by churches.

When I was 10 I had tons of questions. While I had a good church they discouraged questions thinking they could lead to problems.

Dr. Dick Dick St. Marie from the Emmaus Bible college would come and preach sometimes. When he saw what's going on he told me to keep questioning, digging and being hungry. And told them they were wrong what they were doing.

The church is long gone. But I am still hungry.

The Bible refers to the churches of today as being tombs full of cobwebs.

That is why with rare exception the strongest Christians belong to small nondenominational churches if any church at all.

This is truly the time of the apostasy. More and more churches are going liberal because liberals are the most outspoken.

When you lose the youth you lose the future.

 

[ScottA]

Scott A I appreciate your postings here but I'm not sure I can fully get on board with your interpretation of that passage in scripture. Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians about Christ's returning, when he mentions the "day of Christ." I feel he is speaking about an appointed time when Christ will literally return, which is why Paul is reassuring the born again Thessalonians that that day has not yet come.

If a falling away happens first, then that means that people are already in a state of existence before falling in order to be alive to fall at all.

Further, if "that man of sin" is Adam, the first man, then I think Paul would have clarified it at this time, as there would be no reason to conceal said fact as he is writing to edify the Thessalonians, not to be cryptic. I don't believe the (singular) son of perdition describes Adam, nor do I feel it describes us on a personal, relational level, as not all who are acknowledged sinners are so proud as to exalt themselves above all called God.

But you have it backwards.

Which is more "literal", the world or the kingdom? But here you assume that a return in terms of the world is what is literal...even when Christ has said, "the world sees me no more." And which is His glory, what is manifest in the world and in the flesh, or in the spirit? Surely, you have every good reason not to believe that He will return again in the manner of the lowly world, and every reason to believe that He will return high and lifted up, which is in the glory of the kingdom of God whom is spirit.

So I have told you why Paul actually reassured them, because the flesh comes first and they had not missed anything, but should rather be looking for Christ's return "as He is." This is "spirit and truth."

As for the falling away, Paul was referring to their current status as being born of the flesh since Adam - which indeed, comes first. Yes, the fall has been since the beginning.