The GREAT commission

[CNKW3]

I cannot cut and paste individual points as I have to get ready for work shortly, and my IPad is horrible for cutting and pasting !
I think we have different approaches to study- you state that you want people to look at what you write and ' see if they agree, and if not break and down as to why ' yes that is study, but you go on to clearly state that ' what you believe is true ' - so that shows, or relays, that your mind is already made up on the subject of baptism. Am I right ?

Yes you are right. But I’m welcome to read and study other passages that people submit that believe upholds their doctrine. Only through diligent comparison can you come to the truth. Truth does not contradict itself. But that is what you usually find....contradiction. That’s why I want to study it. The problem is...few people ever do that. Many just want to tell me how I’m wasting their time and everybody knows none of this matters we are saved by faith and that’s it. It’s all been settled why continue to try....blah blah. That is what I get. How can anyone have a constructive study if you are not willing to study verse for verse.
You believe baptism does t save? Then what scripture do you use to support that?
You believe repentance is unnecessary? Then what do you use to support that.
You believe the gospel only includes the death,burial, and resurrection of Jesus? Then what passages do you appeal to for support?
If you don’t have any then that’s a problem.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God. Rom 10:17
This is how you study the Bible.
The Bereans were more noble because they didn’t just take Paul’s word for it, they....
Searched the scriptures daily to find out if what Paul was saying was right. Acts 17:11

So , from the readers point of view, your aim is to challenge them to understand why you believe what you believe, despite the fact that you have already done that in other threads. I know from your other threads that you believe baptism saves- so my point is ' why start another thread that covers the same subject and repeats all the same arguments again '

The thread is not about baptism. The great commission includes repentance plus other items. I don’t think I have seen one person even mention the word repentance in days. All people want to talk about is faith/belief as if that is ALL there is to being a Christian. And all they want to do is bash baptism in water as if the devil himself came up with the idea. I’m sorry but I’m amazed by the reactions I get to plain and clear passages of scripture. Acts 22:16 is one if the clearest passages in all of the NT and I get it from all sides.

I have apologised in my previous post - I did single you out , and that was wrong.
I just don't get why so many seem to think that the more they say something, the more likely it is to be heard. I guess it's the repedative subject matter that has been frustrating me.
It's true I don't believe baptism saves , but then to be honest it's NEVER been something I have ever heard before In my entire Christian life, baptism was never discussed when I first came to faith, and yet it was something I did because I felt led to , but there was a gap of about a year- but it doesn't mean that I was not saved in that first year. You do not believe in the works of the HS outside of Gods word, but my own experiences are different - it doesn't mean you are not a Christian, or I am not a Christian, it just means we see things differently. It's not always about being right or wrong.
I am just perpetuating this, and that was not my intention- I have to go to work X
Rita

You will gain more of my understanding through reading my reply to you in post 40

 

[ScottA]

What is the meaning of what? Being obedient to the great commission?
It’s elementary. If you want to be saved you MUST hear the gospel, believe the gospel which teaches one MUST repent and be baptized in water for the remission of sins. No more difficult than that.

That description is correct. But you are in over your head. In your many posts and threads you have ventured beyond the shallow waters of baptism to speculate a meaning that is incorrect...and thus, you are preaching your own understanding, and a lie.

According to the correct description of baptism that you have outlined above, one who is baptized in [liquid] water will, by the plan of God, go on to receive the greater baptism of the Holy Spirit, of which water baptism is only symbolic. But you have been claiming that it is the [liquid] water that does the saving. It is not. All of the New Testament is words that are spirit, teaching by spiritual discernment, many more things beyond the words, which even the apostles could not bear during the time of Christ. For you now to speculate the meaning to be less than their full spiritual interpretation, misrepresents the greater truth of God for our times, the times of the gentiles, that promised time of God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. Which apparently has not come to you, for you speak only the words as written in their elementary definition, as milk meant for babes.

You would do well to stop your speculations, and stop adding the meaning of things that are not written. You are hindering the greater plan of God. Stick to what is written, what is elementary, until you have been visited by the Holy Spirit. Then get out of the way.

Meanwhile, if you have questions, do not be offended, just ask.

 

[CNKW3]

That description is correct. But you are in over your head. In your many posts and threads you have ventured beyond the shallow waters of baptism to speculate a meaning that is incorrect...and thus, you are preaching your own understanding, and a lie.

Prove it!

According to the correct description of baptism that you have outlined above, one who is baptized in [liquid] water will, by the plan of God, go on to receive the greater baptism of the Holy Spirit, of which water baptism is only symbolic.

Prove it! I’m looking for scripture. Where is it? Is it embedded somewhere up there?

But you have been claiming that it is the [liquid] water that does the saving. It is not.

Prove it! Where’s the Bible that says what you just said. If you can’t provide then move on..

All of the New Testament is words that are spirit, teaching by spiritual discernment, many more things beyond the words, which even the apostles could not bear during the time of Christ. For you now to speculate the meaning to be less than their full spiritual interpretation, misrepresents the greater truth of God for our times, the times of the gentiles, that promised time of God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. Which apparently has not come to you, for you speak only the words as written in their elementary definition, as milk meant for babes.

Prove it! Where does the NT say....there are many things for us “beyond the words”.

You would do well to stop your speculations, and stop adding the meaning of things that are not written.

Give me an example of what you accuse me of...

You are hindering the greater plan of God. Stick to what is written, what is elementary, until you have been visited by the Holy Spirit. Then get out of the way.

Meanwhile, if you have questions, do not be offended, just ask.

i believe you just like to hear yourself talk. Because you are full of empty opinion.

 

[ScottA]

Prove it!


Prove it! I’m looking for scripture. Where is it? Is it embedded somewhere up there?

Prove it! Where’s the Bible that says what you just said. If you can’t provide then move on..


Prove it! Where does the NT say....there are many things for us “beyond the words”.


Give me an example of what you accuse me of...

i believe you just like to hear yourself talk. Because you are full of empty opinion.

Listen to you "Prove it!"

But, I have given you all of what you demand already, and you don't even see it when I quote it. Shall I now repeat myself repeating what the scriptures say? Obviously, the repetition has not been met in you by the Holy Spirit...as the Holy Spirit does not need proof of Himself. So, no, I will not try to prove what you have already refused. Your lack of receptiveness is not against me, but against the Holy Spirit. Therefore, take your petition to God.

As for me, I have warned you according to what is written: You have been warned.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I believe that some of if not the most important scriptures in the Bible is that of the great commission.
Right before Christ ascended to heaven he gave the apostles his last commission. These are his last wishes so to speak. If ANYBODY wants to be saved then these words are extremely important. We find three main accounts in Mt, Mk, Lk. Let’s see what we can learn from these accounts.

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 24:46-47 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


When we look at the highlighted words we can know what christ expected when it comes to our salvation....
First we learn that Christ has ALL authority, which means anything we do in religion must come from his direction (which is only found in the NT, not given to us directly today)

Christ wanted.....
...The gospel preached Mk 16:15, Lk 24:46 (death burial resurrection Lk 24:46)
...To ALL nations (Jew and gentile) Mt 28 Lk 24
...The gospel believed. Mk 16:16
...Obedience Mt 28:19
...Repentance. Lk 24:47
...Baptism in water. (We know it’s water because man is commanded to administer it and man cannot administer HS baptism) so much for being all alone and walking out saved. Mk 16:16; Mt 28:19
...Remission of sins (acts 2:38, ac 22:16, Rom 6:17,18 connect this to water baptism) Lk 24:47
...Teaching to observe ALL things Mt 28:19
And all of this would have a beginning. Lk 24:47. That beginning took place in Jerusalem on Pentecost in acts 2.

If anybody wants to be saved then all these things must be observed...
hearing, belief, repentance, obedience, baptism, and teaching must take place in order for that to happen. These are words directly from Christ. It was his will that these things be spread to all the world and it is without dispute. Is it any coincidence that this is exactly what we find in example after example of people being converted.
But for some reason people have seen fit through the years to basically remove all of the above and somehow be saved, having their sins removed, by going up front at a Billy Graham crusade, somehow being baptized with the HS, or on their bed, all by themselves.
The great commission cannot be fulfilled all alone. That is an impossibility. So much can be learned from a study of the great commission. I pray you will study and consider what these important passages are teaching us.

+ I believe the Great Commission is what is needed most these days. I'm unsure what you mean though - that people aren't observing what Christ taught?

 

[user]

Here is our only need for actual water in salvation:

John 3:5
"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

...On the contrary, He did not add "Oh, and one must also be baptized in water" -- YOU did.

As for what Jesus meant when referring to water, He meant it symbolically, meaning "in spirit":

If Jesus meant "in spirit" then you have him saying...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of "in spirit" and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The word used for water is hudōr / hudatos ...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[G5204] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples


Thank you,
God bless!

 

[ScottA]

If Jesus meant "in spirit" then you have him saying...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of "in spirit" and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The word used for water is hudōr / hudatos ...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[G5204] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples


Thank you,
God bless!

You misunderstood my post.

That verse was my proof-text, showing "water" is simply a parable of the "spirit." In the above verse it has both the object ("water") and the subject ("spirit") of the parable language He used. But that was not my point.

My point was to show that water baptism was simply a foreshadowing of baptism by the Holy Spirit.