The Great Tribulation of Satan

[whirlwind]

• Hebrews 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: (15) While it is said, To day if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

• Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

• Provocation ~ Irritation, exasperate, provoke

• Temptation ~ A putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, disciple or provocation); by impl. Adversity; - temptation, try. To test, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline; - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

I see the "day of temptation" as our time in the wilderness and the "hour of temptation" as the time of the great tribulation Jesus told us about in [Matthew 24:21]. Folks often confuse this time of Satan's deception with that of the wrath of God. They are not the same event.

• Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

There He tells us what the tribulation is...a time of great deception when false teachers abound. The locusts, scorpions and tares of this world are here to DECEIVE. It IS NOT the time of the wrath of God.

Is the day of temptation, the three and one half years, when we will be teaching and learning in the wilderness of our minds to see IF we hear His voice. What will occur during the hour of temptation....which I believe is the last five months of Satan's time when he and his fallen angels are here? Or, as has been proposed to me…what if the three and one half years are the time He shortened to five months?

• Matthew 24:35-38 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. (44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?

We are now building our ark and storing food and water for the hour that is to come and may now be....our ark for the day and hour of temptation. We don't know the day, won't recognize the day but we are storing food and water....His truth, for the final hour of temptation as we study.

• Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father Which speaketh in you.
  
• 26:40-41 And He cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, "What, could ye not watch with Me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak.

Do we watch, are we in the hour, are we in the day....or do we sleep?

 

[Christina]

Whirlwind
Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?(quote)

How can they possibly be the same ? Are you forgetting all the events that must occur during tribulation ?

These terms Hour and Day have many different ways they can be broken down
A day on earth is divided by 12 hours (12 Parts) that's 12 different parts of each daylight hour or 24 different parts in a full day and night ... each part is called hour
A day with the Lord or the Lords Day is 1000 years the equivalent to one hour in 1000years
is 5 months
there can also be more obscure meanings
according to the Greek a day can also be a season or an appointed time

My point here is just because the word is translated the same in English ... as Hour or Day... doesn't mean we are talking about the exact same Hour or the exact same Day nor even the exact same meaning of an hour and a Day ....Sometimes its a literal 60 min hour ..sometimes its an hour of 5 months(1000year hour) sometimes its a season ...We do not know the day or hour or exact appointed time
for the arrival of either Satan or Christ .... But you can not conclude they are the same hour
without combing the 6th and 7th trumps .... And God is not the author of confusion we are told of
two separate events the tribulation and after that tribulation... 6th trump lasting one hour (5 months) do we know when that hour starts ? No ....
The Lord comes at the 7th trump.. do we know that hour ? No.
but its not a 5 month hour ...that's only said once of Satan and his locust army

Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
This is Satan's Hour not Gods hour ...Gods hour comes after this tribulation

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

the two witnesses lie dead in the street the whole world is celebrating there deaths
then what happens

Rev.11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Notice it says within the same hour a great earthquake happens this could be a literal 60 min. hour or within the same 5 month hour of Satan ...
but we then have one more woe that comes quickly
Then comes the hour of Christs return ...This is the start of the Lords Day (1000 years)

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind
Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?(quote)

How can they possibly be the same ? Are you forgetting all the events that must occur during tribulation ?

These terms Hour and Day have many different ways they can be broken down
A day on earth is divided by 12 hours (12 Parts) that's 12 different parts of each daylight hour or 24 different parts in a full day and night ... each part is called hour
A day with the Lord or the Lords Day is 1000 years the equivalent to one hour in 1000years
is 5 months
there can also be more obscure meanings
according to the Greek a day can also be a season or an appointed time

My point here is just because the word is translated the same in English ... as Hour or Day... doesn't mean we are talking about the exact same Hour or the exact same Day nor even the exact same meaning of an hour and a Day ....Sometimes its a literal 60 min hour ..sometimes its an hour of 5 months(1000year hour) sometimes its a season ...We do not know the day or hour or exact appointed time
for the arrival of either Satan or Christ .... But you can not conclude they are the same hour
without combing the 6th and 7th trumps .... And God is not the author of confusion we are told of
two separate events the tribulation and after that tribulation... 6th trump lasting one hour (5 months) do we know when that hour starts ? No ....
The Lord comes at the 7th trump.. do we know that hour ? No.
but its not a 5 month hour ...that's only said once of Satan and his locust army

Consider that with the 7th trump it is written....

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery is finished when the angel "begins to sound" but the voice of the angel is for "days."

Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
This is Satan's Hour not Gods hour ...Gods hour comes after this tribulation

That is true. The seventh trump hasn't yet begun to sound.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

the two witnesses lie dead in the street the whole world is celebrating there deaths
then what happens

Rev.11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Notice it says within the same hour a great earthquake happens this could be a literal 60 min. hour or within the same 5 month hour of Satan ...
but we then have one more woe that comes quickly
Then comes the hour of Christs return ...This is the start of the Lords Day (1000 years)

Whirlwind
Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?(quote)

How can they possibly be the same ? Are you forgetting all the events that must occur during tribulation ?

By that I mean....

Matthew 24:35-38 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. (44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The Son of man comes when no man knows or is to know. We can't say it will be 3 1/2 literal days after the witnesses are killed for.......
1. the two witnesses are not two entities but two groups.
2. the great city is worldwide
3. they cannot be killed at the same moment in time for then we would know the day and no man knows the day.
4. The Son of man comes as in the days of Noah "before the flood until the day Noah entered the ark."


The very elect are the sons of God and they are also the sons of man. Jesus abides IN His very elect while they walk on the earth. The sons of man come as in the days of Noah...before the flood.

 

[Benoni]

The great tribulation is not a seven year time period, but "great pressure" look at the Greek here.

Sons of God are God's Elect, which are not all believers

There is big difference between God’s elect compared to the great multitude, which no man could number; but both are saved.

There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Elect/Overcomer and everyone else.
All are heir to salvation does not make you the elect.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .
Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Christina]

Whirlwind
Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?(quote)

How can they possibly be the same ? Are you forgetting all the events that must occur during tribulation ?

These terms Hour and Day have many different ways they can be broken down
A day on earth is divided by 12 hours (12 Parts) that's 12 different parts of each daylight hour or 24 different parts in a full day and night ... each part is called hour
A day with the Lord or the Lords Day is 1000 years the equivalent to one hour in 1000years
is 5 months
there can also be more obscure meanings
according to the Greek a day can also be a season or an appointed time

My point here is just because the word is translated the same in English ... as Hour or Day... doesn't mean we are talking about the exact same Hour or the exact same Day nor even the exact same meaning of an hour and a Day ....Sometimes its a literal 60 min hour ..sometimes its an hour of 5 months(1000year hour) sometimes its a season ...We do not know the day or hour or exact appointed time
for the arrival of either Satan or Christ .... But you can not conclude they are the same hour
without combing the 6th and 7th trumps .... And God is not the author of confusion we are told of
two separate events the tribulation and after that tribulation... 6th trump lasting one hour (5 months) do we know when that hour starts ? No ....
The Lord comes at the 7th trump.. do we know that hour ? No.
but its not a 5 month hour ...that's only said once of Satan and his locust army

Consider that with the 7th trump it is written....

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery is finished when the angel "begins to sound" but the voice of the angel is for "days."

Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
This is Satan's Hour not Gods hour ...Gods hour comes after this tribulation

That is true. The seventh trump hasn't yet begun to sound.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

the two witnesses lie dead in the street the whole world is celebrating there deaths
then what happens

Rev.11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Notice it says within the same hour a great earthquake happens this could be a literal 60 min. hour or within the same 5 month hour of Satan ...
but we then have one more woe that comes quickly
Then comes the hour of Christs return ...This is the start of the Lords Day (1000 years)

Whirlwind
Are the "day and hour" no one knows of speaking of the arrival of the Son of man or....of the day and hour of Satan's temptation, the great tribulation? Or…is this the day and hour of both events for they happen at the same time?(quote)

How can they possibly be the same ? Are you forgetting all the events that must occur during tribulation ?

By that I mean....

Matthew 24:35-38 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. (44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The Son of man comes when no man knows or is to know. We can't say it will be 3 1/2 literal days after the witnesses are killed for.......
1. the two witnesses are not two entities but two groups.
2. the great city is worldwide
3. they cannot be killed at the same moment in time for then we would know the day and no man knows the day.
4. The Son of man comes as in the days of Noah "before the flood until the day Noah entered the ark."


The very elect are the sons of God and they are also the sons of man. Jesus abides IN His very elect while they walk on the earth. The sons of man come as in the days of Noah...before the flood.

Well Whirl as for the first part I dont see a problem the voice of the angel(a he) I believe to be the shout the blowing of the trumpet and trumpets hearld the action so what is the action the Mystery is finished Christ arrives ....

The second part you will have to figure out I dont agree with your interptation ... so I cant answer the question .... But remember this one way to test if we are right ..When we have something wrong
we will eventually run into something thay wont fit or work consider perhaps this iis where you are
see my type study here and think on this and perhaps you will find your answer
http://biblestudy.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1081
God Bless

 

[gervais]

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth (G1492) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

whirlwind, christina,
If you have Companion Bibles look at the above verse and the side column comment on "knoweth." Knoweth = has any intuitive knownledge

Now for the question, can a man know or learn a truth from God the Father? Look at Mat 16:17

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

We are not able to know the “day and hour” intuitively but we can learn it from studying God’s Word

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Got to add something to this, we will not know the exact time, to the minute, just like we do not know to the minute when a child is going to be born. But we can learn to within a day or so. The closer we get the more specific we will be able to be.

Actually, I take issue with a lot of the things you both have said in this topic

 

[Christina]

Thank you gervais, I agree
you have made it very clear

 

[whirlwind]

The great tribulation is not a seven year time period, but "great pressure" look at the Greek here.

I didn't mention "seven years" Benoni. I did speak of the three and one half years and yes...it will be "great pressure." Are those the days shortened from seven years or are the 3 1/2 years shortened to the five months?

Sons of God are God's Elect, which are not all believers

There is big difference between God’s elect compared to the great multitude, which no man could number; but both are saved.

There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Elect/Overcomer and everyone else.
All are heir to salvation does not make you the elect.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .
Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I agree.

 

[whirlwind]

Gervais wrote....

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth (G1492) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

whirlwind, christina,
If you have Companion Bibles look at the above verse and the side column comment on "knoweth." Knoweth = has any intuitive knownledge

Now for the question, can a man know or learn a truth from God the Father? Look at Mat 16:17

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

We are not able to know the “day and hour” intuitively but we can learn it from studying God’s Word

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

He did foretell us "all things," and of those things He said.....

• Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

• 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

• 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

We are not to know the day and hour but....we do see the signs, we watch and know the season. His Spirit reveals deeper understanding of His Word but the Spirit does not reveal what He tells us is not to be revealed....the day and hour.

Got to add something to this, we will not know the exact time, to the minute, just like we do not know to the minute when a child is going to be born. But we can learn to within a day or so. The closer we get the more specific we will be able to be.

Actually, I take issue with a lot of the things you both have said in this topic

 

[Benoni]

Again I look at these years as symbolic an d spiritual not literal, pretty much everything else we agree.

The great tribulation is not a seven year time period, but "great pressure" look at the Greek here.

I didn't mention "seven years" Benoni. I did speak of the three and one half years and yes...it will be "great pressure." Are those the days shortened from seven years or are the 3 1/2 years shortened to the five months?

Sons of God are God's Elect, which are not all believers

There is big difference between God’s elect compared to the great multitude, which no man could number; but both are saved.

There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Elect/Overcomer and everyone else.
All are heir to salvation does not make you the elect.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .
Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I agree.

 

[gervais]

"We are not to know the day and hour but....we do see the signs, we watch and know the season. His Spirit reveals deeper understanding of His Word but the Spirit does not reveal what He tells us is not to be revealed....the day and hour. "

So, in your opinion, God is not able to tell someone "the day and hour?" Who told Peter that Christ was the son of God? You can have it your way, but God doesn't go by your rules. And you probably will not know. Have you read my study on the "telos and sunteleia?"

 

[whirlwind]

"We are not to know the day and hour but....we do see the signs, we watch and know the season. His Spirit reveals deeper understanding of His Word but the Spirit does not reveal what He tells us is not to be revealed....the day and hour. "

So, in your opinion, God is not able to tell someone "the day and hour?" Who told Peter that Christ was the son of God? You can have it your way, but God doesn't go by your rules. And you probably will not know. Have you read my study on the "telos and sunteleia?"

I didn't think it was my opinion. It is what is written.
[/quote]

 

[gervais]

Well, whirlwind, I can't open your eyes.

Mar 2:21No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
Mar 2:22And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

 

[whirlwind]

Well, whirlwind, I can't open your eyes.

Mar 2:21No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
Mar 2:22And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Okay but...what are you trying to open my eyes to?

 

[gervais]

Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: