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The harlot's deception of the nations

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Fullness of the Gentiles, Aug 14, 2021.

  1. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    Revelation 13:23b-24
    “..for by your sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

    Revelation 19:20
    “And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast, and those who had worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.

    Revelation 13:11b, 13-15
    "..he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.”

    “And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

    In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  2. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Read the book of the Revelation again because you're obviously missing some important bits. Hint: look for the 3 unclean spirits like frogs
     
  3. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    The beast will "open his mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven." (Revelation 13:6) "And the dragon gave him its power and its seat and great authority." (Revelation 13:2)

    The false prophet deceives by its miracles and lying wonders. The harlot deceives the nations by sorcery.

    What other connection except the above would the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet have to the words,

    Revelation 16
    13 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14 For they are spirits of demons, working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that day, the great day of God Almighty.

    Without you elaborating or explaining your view or insight, I don't see what this has to do with the question, "In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?"
     
  4. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    No point in discussing a book that you're not really familiar with.
     
  5. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    In other words you really don't know, do you?
    I would not post on the Revelation if I was not familiar with it.
     
  6. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    (Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great Of Revelation Chapter 17

    The Levitical High Priest & Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

    (Revelation) 17:4KJV
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    Yes, The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

    (Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
    15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
    16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
    17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
    18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
    19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
    20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

    (Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

    (Revelation) 17:9KJV
    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
    Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

    The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

    (Revelation) 18:24KJV
    24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    (Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
    29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
    30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
    31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
    32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
     
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  7. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    So you've made up your mind.

    Actually, I've seen the reasons before your post why Babylon the Great = Jerusalem, but I've also seen the reasons why Babylon the Great = the Church.

    The New Jerusalem is a city of gold with precious stones, gates of pearls, and its street is of gold.(Rev 21:18-21)

    "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet. And she was gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication." (Revelation 17:4)

    Would Jerusalem on earth be classed as a harlot still, even if it were not classed as Christ's city.?

    The new Jerusalem is the holy city. If the Church becomes a harlot, then she's a harlot.

    Yet both Jerusalem and a harlot church qualify, scripturally.

    So I haven't made up my mind then.

    So back to the topic of this thread:

    There have to be TWO entities deceiving the nations if Babylon the Great is not also the false prophet, who "has two horns like a lamb, yet speaks like a dragon", because for sure we are told that Babylon the Great deceives the nations with her sorceries and she, like the Pharisees before her, is accused by God of being full of the blood of saints and prophets and the martyrs of Jesus.
     
  8. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    Jerusalem Is "The Great City" And Is Likened To Sodom And Egypt, The Harlot

    (Revelation) 11:8KJV
    8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Jerusalem, The Harlot

    (Revelation) 17:2KJV
    1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.


    (Isaiah) 16:2 & 9-16KJV
    2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

    9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
    10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
    11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
    12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
    13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
    14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.
    15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
    16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.


     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  9. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    In brief

    Land, countries, nations, are referenced in the "feminine" (she, her, etc.)

    He who controls all nations, is a "god". (Leader, king,)

    Nations also is the people thereof.

    Lands have borders, many Nations join together in leagues, ie Arab league of nations, European Union, United nations, etc.

    Horns, crowns reveal power.

    The Harlot/whore, will be the seat of government of the whole world, controlled by the anti-christ, (ie beast).

    The false prophet is a type of "side-kick" agent of the anti-christ.
    The false prophet is there to encourage people with a religious tendency, to Yield, trust and believe the anti-christ.
     
  10. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Of course not, but the 3 unclean spirits are neither the beast or false prophet so your OP is fallacious and uninformed.
     
  11. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    Yes, the harlot is a city (Revelation 17:18; Revelation 18:10, 16, 19).

    She claims her husband is alive:

    "For she says in her heart, I sit as a queen, and I am not a widow; and I do not see mourning at all." (Revelation 18:7b)

    It could be Jerusalem, and it could be the Vatican, and it could be a city we don't even know of yet which claims Christ as her Groom.

    So let me ask some more questions:

    How many entities are there in the Revelation deceiving the nations through their miracles and lying wonders (sorcery), who will be killing those who refuse to worship the beast and his image, and who God holds guilty for the blood of prophets and saints that was shed by it/her? One entity, or two entities?

    If it's two, why would one of them be said to have two horns like a lamb? Every word in the Revelation is significant of something, so "two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon" has significance. What's the significance do you think? (I'm asking without having any definite belief about the answer myself).
     
  12. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    So what IYQAIO (in your qualified and informed opinion) (as opposed to my fallacy) do the frogs represent?
     
  13. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    Yes, I've seen that too. But this does not prevent her from being a type of another city which happens to be said to be clothed with the same gold, precious stones and pearls as the holy city, New Jerusalem. I.O.W everything you quote still does not preclude a church.
     
  14. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    They're not frogs, they're unclean spirits, but thanks for proving my point. Sorry about the attitude but I'm tired of dealing with Cultic notions and your choice of a Darby translation is kind of a dead give away.
    By the way, the fullness of the gentiles, as per Daniel, is the fullness of transgression, the peak of rebellion, interesting choice for a screen name.
     
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  15. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    The (Frog/Heket) was a high ranking god of the Egyptians, as (Revelation) 11:8 states Jerusalem will be spiritually likened to Sodom and Egypt during the tribulation

    The 3.5 year tribulation is going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as the (Two Witnesses) seen in (Revelation - 11) will bring plagues seen in (Revelation) 16:1-11 upon (The Beast) and wicked world
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  16. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    May God bless you in all things, and I pray that He also gives to you the same degree of insight and correct understanding of the scriptures which you believe and imply you have. In Jesus name, Amen

    I pray that without any sarcasm meant or intended.
     
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  17. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    I knew that. But you're not saying who the entities represent, or why the deception of the nations by the harlot and her sorcery is not included in it.
    By the way. I'm not quoting Darby but I use a number of different translations, always comparing one with the other, and checking Greek words used and what they mean, as I go along. The YLT uses the same literal translation of the verse that has upset you so much:

    "And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'" (Genesis 48:19, Young's Literal Translation).

    Now since the Hebrew words mean "fullness" and "Gentiles", is that perhaps why at least two English translations of the Old Testament use the literal translation, do you think?

    PS: It's not wrong to translate it as "a multitude of nations", because that's what became of the house of Israel.
     
  18. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    Well now that's a good answer, thank you. It was informative (regarding the frog and one of the gods of the Egyptians) and without the sarcasm and insulting tone of others who don't like my questions.

    Still does not mean it's the same city destroyed in A.D 70 and rebuilt later. It COULD be that city, but it could also be another city (a Christian harlot). There is a high chance that the "temple" that the man of sin will seat himself up in (2 Thessalonians 2:4), is the church. Why I say that is another very long post with a lot of information about the Greek word naos for temple, and when it was last used in the New Testament in reference to the temple in Jerusalem. There are two Greek words used in the New Testament in reference to the temple in Jerusalem. Following the use of each word throughout the New Testament will tell you a lot.

    But the question of "which city" = the harlot , still does not answer my question in this thread.

    How many entities are deceiving the nations with sorcery or miracles and lying wonders in the Revelation? Is it one, or two?
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    (Isaiah) 66:1-4 clearly suggest that there will be a future temple built in Jerusalem and renewed animal sacrifice

    The word (Delusion) is used twice in the KJV, both associated with a (Temple/House) seen below

    (Isaiah) 66:1-4KJV
    1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
    2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
    3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
    4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not
    .

    (2 Thessalonians) 2:3-11KJV
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
     
  20. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles Active Member

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    You're giving me more background on something I have seen too, without coming to the same conclusions as you (because I won't make up my mind until all my questions are answered - and I don't mean "answered by you, here and now, I mean answered by scripture and whenever and through whoever), so I'm enjoying this.

    Our thinking is not that far apart - but as Christians we can't ignore any facts in order to remain faithful to our interpretation, or else we run the danger of being deluded ourselves.

    Who is apostatizing in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Is it not the same people upon whom the strong delusion is sent?
     
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