The harlot's deception of the nations

[michaelvpardo]

May God bless you in all things, and I pray that He also gives to you the same degree of insight and correct understanding of the scriptures which you believe and imply you have. In Jesus name, Amen

I pray that without any sarcasm meant or intended.

Thanks for the kind comments and prayer, but I know far more than I ever wanted to know about scripture, the world, the flesh, and the devil. It doesn't make me a happier person.
I met a guy once, when I was very young in the faith, who took offense at my light handling of the word when I attempted to address a broad ranged biblical topic in the limitations of fifteen minutes of teaching. Maybe, 20 years later, I've become him.
Most of the people I've encountered on this forum, and I mean specifically the "end times" stuff, prophesy and such, come to this area of the unknown, not to learn, but to teach some new idea or speculate about events that haven't occurred yet or may be happening now.
NEWS FLASH: no one knows the future but God, yet every living soul who has given a thought to tomorrow has some notion of what it will be.
The Lord keep you, the Lord bless you, the Lord make His face to shine upon you and give you peace. That's all I've got my friend and I apologize for such a negative tact.
I was a bit of a heretic hunter in my youth and took great delight in using scripture to tear down unsound arguments and unsound doctrine. I don't know if all humanity is subject to predatory instinct but the ones in charge always have been and it's hard to find legitimate outlet for such a drive. Turns out that eschatology forums are great hunting grounds. Who knew?
I'm endeavoring to rise above my base nature by the power of His Spirit so I will beg your pardon and leave you to the young lions. It's a jungle out there.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're giving me more background on something I have seen too, without coming to the same conclusions as you (because I won't make up my mind until all my questions are answered - and I don't mean "answered by you, here and now, I mean answered by scripture and whenever and through whoever), so I'm enjoying this.

Our thinking is not that far apart - but as Christians we can't ignore any facts in order to remain faithful to our interpretation, or else we run the danger of being deluded ourselves.

Who is apostatizing in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Is it not the same people upon whom the strong delusion is sent?

You desire to put (The Church) in apostasy

It is the false church, those that cry Lord, Lord, who were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit

The strong delusion is the False Prophet who is a human man, who will perform false miracles, calling fire from heaven, used to deceive the world into receiving the mark, and image worship

 

[Earburner]

Can't find a place to edit title. I tried to edit title and clicked the wrong button so instead my post was posted.

TITLE OF THIS THREAD: THE HARLOT'S DECEPTION OFT THE NATIONS

Revelation 13:23b-24
“..for by your sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

Revelation 19:20
“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast, and those who had worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 13:11b, 13-15
"..he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.”

“And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?

No! The False Prophet is that empire that has 2 horns and spoke as a dragon. It is the False Prophet (2H Beast) that gives global political life to the image of the Beast. Can guess what global reaching political power is the image?
Clues:
1. Its not a religious organization.
2. The FP told the people of the world to make it.
3. It's headquarters is in the land of the FP

 

[Truth7t7]

No! The False Prophet is that empire that has 2 horns and spoke as a dragon. It is the False Prophet (2H Beast) that gives global political life to the image of the Beast. Can guess what global reaching political power is the image?
Clues:
1. Its not a religious organization.
2. The FP told the people of the world to make it.
3. It's headquarters is in the land of the FP

"False" The False Prophet Isnt An Empire AsYou Claim, He Is A "Human" Man Denoted By "Personal Pronouns" He, Him

Revelation 13:11-16KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jerusalem is God's home here on the renewed cleansed by fire earth with His family for all eternity!!!PTL.

 

[Taken]

Yes, the harlot is a city (Revelation 17:18; Revelation 18:10, 16, 19).

She claims her husband is alive:

"For she says in her heart, I sit as a queen, and I am not a widow; and I do not see mourning at all." (Revelation 18:7b)

It could be Jerusalem, and it could be the Vatican, and it could be a city we don't even know of yet which claims Christ as her Groom.

So let me ask some more questions:

How many entities are there in the Revelation deceiving the nations through their miracles and lying wonders (sorcery), who will be killing those who refuse to worship the beast and his image, and who God holds guilty for the blood of prophets and saints that was shed by it/her? One entity, or two entities?

If it's two, why would one of them be said to have two horns like a lamb? Every word in the Revelation is significant of something, so "two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon" has significance. What's the significance do you think? (I'm asking without having any definite belief about the answer myself).

So let me ask some more questions:

How many entities are there in the Revelation deceiving the nations through their miracles and lying wonders (sorcery), who will be killing those who refuse to worship the beast and his image, and who God holds guilty for the blood of prophets and saints that was shed by it/her? One entity, or two entities?

If it's two, why would one of them be said to have two horns like a lamb? Every word in the Revelation is significant of something, so "two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon" has significance. What's the significance do you think? (I'm asking without having any definite belief about the answer myself).[/QUOTE]

We first Learn about the "controlling" world power...Nations, Peoples, oppression per a Politically controlled power.

Then enter the TWO HORNS..."as a Lamb".
The TRUE Lamb...Sits at the Head of TWO Powers:
Political Government AND Religious Beliefs.

Nothing new; the Dragon ie, Satan ie, Devil...
MIMICKS the Lord God.

While his Political Government is being established...so also must a Religious aspect come into play....ie the TWO Horns (as a Lamb, but not the True Lamb)...
Speaking as the dragon.
One Horn political
One Horn religious
Both...under the authority of the dragon.

THESE two Horns...world Government & world Religion ... 24-7 repeat, repeat, repeat, glory and reverence and exalting....the anti-christ...
AS the supreme World head of:
Government & Religious Belief...that the dragon is he...head of both.

The Trickery...(magic, sorcery, as you eluded)
OF HOW TO GET the Whole WORLD...in agreement on a Religious aspect...???

Ponder a moment...
Silencing the Truth?
Punish Truth tellers?
Separate Truth tellers?
Eliminate Truth tellers?
Re-education camps?
Brain washing?
Drugs to distort the Truth?
Simple, free offered, (then required) medical procedure, that blocks brain activity to believe in God Almighty...(already created, tested, works...but not YET mass used.)

First stages...
mind control childrens education...in effect.
Introducing...World religions meshing...in effect.
Everyone "connected" to "THE Control GRID"...in effect and expanding to all for compulsion.
Sky "god"...man can not See...in testing.
Satellites...in the "sky".
A computer controlled..."pseudo god".
The "sorcery", "magic", is the phenomenal power of technology... that even NOW, is this generations "addictive LIFE LINE".
Today...men get a "taste" of technology, and instantly become addicted, demanding, wanting, begging for, more and more, and people, will ignore, paying for needs, food, clothing, shelter...to rush and buy the latest ever expanding and addictive...Technology.
It becomes their LIFE, and will easily Become "their" god.
AND the "dragon" is Depending on it.
AND even a BLIND man can See, it's Phenomenal success.
DO NOT BE fooled...Wicked men "OF" this World...are fully aware and taking full advantage of their ability to Control through...
FEAR and the GRID.

This WILL proceed..BUT..WILL ultimately FAIL....FOR ONE Primary Reason.

 

[Zao is life]

Thanks for the kind comments and prayer, but I know far more than I ever wanted to know about scripture, the world, the flesh, and the devil. It doesn't make me a happier person.
I met a guy once, when I was very young in the faith, who took offense at my light handling of the word when I attempted to address a broad ranged biblical topic in the limitations of fifteen minutes of teaching. Maybe, 20 years later, I've become him.
Most of the people I've encountered on this forum, and I mean specifically the "end times" stuff, prophesy and such, come to this area of the unknown, not to learn, but to teach some new idea or speculate about events that haven't occurred yet or may be happening now.
NEWS FLASH: no one knows the future but God, yet every living soul who has given a thought to tomorrow has some notion of what it will be.
The Lord keep you, the Lord bless you, the Lord make His face to shine upon you and give you peace. That's all I've got my friend and I apologize for such a negative tact.
I was a bit of a heretic hunter in my youth and took great delight in using scripture to tear down unsound arguments and unsound doctrine. I don't know if all humanity is subject to predatory instinct but the ones in charge always have been and it's hard to find legitimate outlet for such a drive. Turns out that eschatology forums are great hunting grounds. Who knew?
I'm endeavoring to rise above my base nature by the power of His Spirit so I will beg your pardon and leave you to the young lions. It's a jungle out there.

Thank you. I won't need to find ways to camouflage any heresy from any jungle predators. I don't produce any. The young lions and the old ones are predators who sometimes find the wrong prey. The crocodile spins and grabs them with its strong jaws and drags them to their own heresy death instead.

 

[Zao is life]

You desire to put (The Church) in apostasy

It is the false church, those that cry Lord, Lord, who were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit

The strong delusion is the False Prophet who is a human man, who will perform false miracles, calling fire from heaven, used to deceive the world into receiving the mark, and image worship

Part of the church is already in apostasy. Going back to obedience to the Law is turning from Christ. It really is. Those Christians who oppose it just don't know how serious it is (yet). A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Calling unsaved Jews "God's chosen people Israel" is produced by a delusion.

And if the head Syria was Damascus and the head of Ephraim was Samaria (Isaiah 7:8-9), then the head of Judah/Judea was Jerusalem, which received a mortal wound to its head in A.D 70.

I realize that the seven heads of the beast of Revelation 17 have all been identified by Christian consensus as Gentile kingdoms, but the principle remains the same,

and the best example we have to date of a kingdom that had existed before John received the Revelation but no longer existed when John received the Revelation (having received a mortal wound to its head), and yet still existed, and then rose again suddenly in 1948 and had its mortal wound to its head partially healed in 1967, is the very kingdom which is the realization of the goal of non-Christians called Zionists.

It was created by the United Nations, a Gentile body, and the people who emigrated following the birth of the Zionist movement in the late 1800's all came out of Gentile lands, and though they have called their country Israel, the only Israel that exists in God's eyes is the Israel which consists of Jews and Gentiles who through faith in Christ, are in Christ.

It's been a strong delusion for many Christians, who have marveled at it, saying, "See what God is doing before our very eyes in our time".

So do I believe the above is the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thessalonians by Paul?

No. I neither believe it, nor do I reject it. I merely keep these things in mind. More and more Christians today are not only insisting that Christians should keep the laws of Moses, but they also teach that the temple (which they say WILL be built again in Jerusalem) will have animal sacrifices for sins re instituted, and that this temple "is Ezekiel's temple" and "the millennium temple", and they say that these sacrifices "will continue during the millennium because it's prophesied, and it's Biblical".

So, if Christians can be deluded about that, and those ideas are being propagated and are growing, then it's not too difficult to imagine how the church (at least a large part of it) can apostatize and become deluded when God sends strong delusion.

But I do not desire it. Nor do I make up my mind about what that delusion might be.. I'm merely talking about possibilities.

However, the only people who can apostatize are those who are considered God's people. Unbelievers cannot "apostatize". They don't fall away from the faith they never had.

It's not a small part of the church that's going to go down.

And your accusation about what I "desire for the church" is going down too.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?

No, The false prophet and the harlot are not the same entity. The beast out of the sea that has seven heads and ten horns destroys the harlot, so we know the harlot and the false prophet (who serves the agenda of the beast out of the earth and is destroyed along with it) are not the same entity.

The harlot appears to be the world system of politics and economics and everything, literal and spiritual, that fallen humanity indulges and worships. A world system personified by some major city of the world, like New York City, for example. In the end, the system of the antichrist destroys that system (Revelation 17:16). I personally think it's getting clear that the end time beast system is Marxism and will destroy Capitalism. Which is God's judgment against our wicked and intoxicating system of economics (Revelation 17:17).

I can't nail down end times Babylon any better than that right now. Revelation's account of Babylon mirrors Isaiah's account of the destruction of Babylon in Isaiah 47. Compare the two. It's a very interesting read. Few people know that much of the language of Revelations comes right from the writings of the prophets. That, IMO, is the key to understanding Revelation.

 

[Earburner]

"False" The False Prophet Isnt An Empire AsYou Claim, He Is A "Human" Man Denoted By "Personal Pronouns" He, Him

Revelation 13:11-16KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

KJV-Rev. 13[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon [satan] gave him his power, and his seat [of government], and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

When you get some time, see Daniel for some good instruction on what "Beasts" are, in comparison to that which are "horns" and "heads" on a Beast.
Horns and/or heads are never a Beast, nor does a Beast ever become horns or heads.

Horns and heads, as well as mouths, are appendages of a Beast.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

More and more Christians today are not only insisting that Christians should keep the laws of Moses...

To me this is just a sign that God is reviving Israel. The church is revisiting it's roots. And not because the church sees Israel back in her land and existing as a nation again. This move of the church started long before 1948.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Horns and/or heads are never a Beast, nor does a Beast ever become horns or heads.

"The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom." Daniel 7:24

 

[Ferris Bueller]

but they also teach that the temple (which they say WILL be built again in Jerusalem) will have animal sacrifices for sins re instituted, and that this temple "is Ezekiel's temple"

I guess we'll see if it's Ezekiel's temple by whether or not they build it according to Ezekiel 40-48.

10As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, so that they may be ashamed of their iniquities. Let them measure the plan, 11and if they are ashamed of all they have done, then make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement and its exits and entrances—its whole design along with all its statutes, forms, and laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its complete design and all its statutes and may carry them out." Ezekiel 43:10-11​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Part of the church is already in apostasy. Going back to obedience to the Law is turning from Christ. It really is. Those Christians who oppose it just don't know how serious it is (yet). A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

I don't see law keeping, even in it's 'not for salvation' form, overtaking the church. Too many in the church convulse at the idea of not doing anything on the Sabbath day, lol. I believe the apostasy of the end time church is rooted in these new Hyper-grace theologies that change the grace of God into a license to sin. I think this is by far the greater and much more pervasive problem facing the church in these end times.

 

[Zao is life]

So let me ask some more questions:

How many entities are there in the Revelation deceiving the nations through their miracles and lying wonders (sorcery), who will be killing those who refuse to worship the beast and his image, and who God holds guilty for the blood of prophets and saints that was shed by it/her? One entity, or two entities?

If it's two, why would one of them be said to have two horns like a lamb? Every word in the Revelation is significant of something, so "two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon" has significance. What's the significance do you think? (I'm asking without having any definite belief about the answer myself).

We first Learn about the "controlling" world power...Nations, Peoples, oppression per a Politically controlled power.

Then enter the TWO HORNS..."as a Lamb".
The TRUE Lamb...Sits at the Head of TWO Powers:
Political Government AND Religious Beliefs.

Nothing new; the Dragon ie, Satan ie, Devil...
MIMICKS the Lord God.

While his Political Government is being established...so also must a Religious aspect come into play....ie the TWO Horns (as a Lamb, but not the True Lamb)...
Speaking as the dragon.
One Horn political
One Horn religious
Both...under the authority of the dragon.

THESE two Horns...world Government & world Religion ... 24-7 repeat, repeat, repeat, glory and reverence and exalting....the anti-christ...
AS the supreme World head of:
Government & Religious Belief...that the dragon is he...head of both.

The Trickery...(magic, sorcery, as you eluded)
OF HOW TO GET the Whole WORLD...in agreement on a Religious aspect...???

Ponder a moment...
Silencing the Truth?
Punish Truth tellers?
Separate Truth tellers?
Eliminate Truth tellers?
Re-education camps?
Brain washing?
Drugs to distort the Truth?
Simple, free offered, (then required) medical procedure, that blocks brain activity to believe in God Almighty...(already created, tested, works...but not YET mass used.)

First stages...
mind control childrens education...in effect.
Introducing...World religions meshing...in effect.
Everyone "connected" to "THE Control GRID"...in effect and expanding to all for compulsion.
Sky "god"...man can not See...in testing.
Satellites...in the "sky".
A computer controlled..."pseudo god".
The "sorcery", "magic", is the phenomenal power of technology... that even NOW, is this generations "addictive LIFE LINE".
Today...men get a "taste" of technology, and instantly become addicted, demanding, wanting, begging for, more and more, and people, will ignore, paying for needs, food, clothing, shelter...to rush and buy the latest ever expanding and addictive...Technology.
It becomes their LIFE, and will easily Become "their" god.
AND the "dragon" is Depending on it.
AND even a BLIND man can See, it's Phenomenal success.
DO NOT BE fooled...Wicked men "OF" this World...are fully aware and taking full advantage of their ability to Control through...
FEAR and the GRID.

This WILL proceed..BUT..WILL ultimately FAIL....FOR ONE Primary Reason.

Well we do agree that we are already on the way, for the reasons you listed. But the are two entities that the Revelation says will have deceived the nations. One is a harlot, and she is also held responsible for the blood of saints. All I've been trying to do is ascertain if she and the false prophet are one and the same.

You're saying they're not the same, so I accept that.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Zao is life]

No! The False Prophet is that empire that has 2 horns and spoke as a dragon. It is the False Prophet (2H Beast) that gives global political life to the image of the Beast. Can guess what global reaching political power is the image?
Clues:
1. Its not a religious organization.
2. The FP told the people of the world to make it.
3. It's headquarters is in the land of the FP

I also bear in mind that the image could be a temple in Jerusalem, if that's what you mean.

But no "woman" can be called a "harlot" unless "the woman" is part of God's chosen people. The harlot is the like the woman in Revelation 12, except she is a harlot, whereas the woman of Revelation 12 is pure. The harlot is also the antithesis of the holy city, New Jerusalem.

* I had to edit this because I said "is" a temple instead of "could be", which is what I meant.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then enter the TWO HORNS..."as a Lamb".

Horns are kings. A two horned beast has two kings, you know, like President and Vice President. And John says the two horned beast is like a lamb, but breathes fire like a dragon. This beast out of the sea, the false prophet, has all the big guns to force the agenda of the antichrist beast system onto the world. In the end, this antichrist beast system will turn on the harlot (the economic and political systems of the world) and her intoxicating influence on the kings and peoples of the world and bring her to a fiery end, all in accordance with God's judgment of the harlot.

 

[Zao is life]

No, The false prophet and the harlot are not the same entity. The beast out of the sea that has seven heads and ten horns destroys the harlot, so we know the harlot and the false prophet (who serves the agenda of the beast out of the earth and is destroyed along with it) are not the same entity.

You're right. The beast and the false prophet will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire after Christ Himself defeats the beast. The harlot will be destroyed by the (ten kings of the) beast.

The harlot appears to be the world system of politics and economics and everything, literal and spiritual, that fallen humanity indulges and worships. A world system personified by some major city of the world, like New York City, for example. In the end, the system of the antichrist destroys that system (Revelation 17:16). I personally think it's getting clear that the end time beast system is Marxism and will destroy Capitalism. Which is God's judgment against our wicked and intoxicating system of economics (Revelation 17:17).

I can't nail down end times Babylon any better than that right now. Revelation's account of Babylon mirrors Isaiah's account of the destruction of Babylon in Isaiah 47. Compare the two. It's a very interesting read. Few people know that much of the language of Revelations comes right from the writings of the prophets. That, IMO, is the key to understanding Revelation.

Yes, but if you look in the Old Testament it was only Israel/Judah that was ever accused of being a harlot. No (Gentile) nation was ever called a harlot, because a harlot in the Bible represents an adulterous woman.

In the case of the Revelation, it will be a part of the church (I'm definitely not saying the whole of the church, but a big part of it) that will be playing the harlot with the beast, its kings and its merchants, and delivering saints over to death, the way "the son of perdition" (Judas Iscariot) and the leaders of Judah/Judea delivered Christ, and, later, His apostles over to death. The only other man called "the son of perdition" in the New Testament is the man of sin who seats himself up in the Tabernacle of God, claiming to be God.

 

[Zao is life]

KJV-Rev. 13[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon [satan] gave him his power, and his seat [of government], and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

When you get some time, see Daniel for some good instruction on what "Beasts" are, in comparison to that which are "horns" and "heads" on a Beast.
Horns and/or heads are never a Beast, nor does a Beast ever become horns or heads.

Horns and heads, as well as mouths, are appendages of a Beast.

Yes, a beast represents a "kingdom" (political entity), horns represent the authority of that kingdom's kings, or princes or generals/powerful military leaders.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But the are two entities that the Revelation says will have deceived the nations. One is a harlot, and she is also held responsible for the blood of saints. All I've been trying to do is ascertain if she and the false prophet are one and the same.

The harlot has been making the nations and her kings drunk with the maddening wine of her adulteries for as long as mankind has been fallen. She is the economic and political systems of the world through which men are made rich and powerful. The riches of 'Babylon', and mankind's adultery with those riches, have always existed in the world. The false prophet—the beast out of the sea—and his deceptions is an end time entity.