The Holy Spirit
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Hmm,
So is the argument:
Is the Son also the Father?
Because I understand both are the same as well as the Holy Spirit is the Son which is the Father.
I don't see 3 seperate entities.
I see the Father = Mind
I see the Spirit = Heart
I see the Son = Soul/Body
Just like a person has all of these mind, heart and soul,
So is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the one and selfsame Lord.
Is this what the discussion is about?
I don't understand apologetics..
Thank You
Hugs
Jesus.
Exodus 24:9-11 KJV
9) Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10) And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11) And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Much love!
Actually, just to jump in here for a moment, the Greek "kai", often translated "and", has two uses. The first is called the "copulative" use, which adds two different things together, Peter and John. The second is called the "explicative" use, which exlains a first noun with a second. John, even the fisherman. Context tells you which you are looking at generally speaking. In some cases you may need to visit a parallel passage for the definitive answer.
Simply stated, when you see "kai" in the text, you can read it as "and", or as "even". So the determination needs be made.
Much love!
I explained it in plain English and all your babble doesn't change that.
There is no further defense necessary and all your ranting doesn't change it.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You didn’t explain anything in the Bible just your unbiblical ideas about 2 persons which the Greek refuted .
next
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
No that is modalism. The Son is not the Father and the Son is God. The Trinity is not polytheist but is Monotheistic.
The Holy Ghost was definitely present in the Old Testament, and speaking of the Israelites: But they rebelled, and vexed His Holy Spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. (Isa 63:10) [Note: "Holy" should have been capitalized in the KJV. There are many instances where "Spirit" has also not been capitalized, which is unfortunate]
Also kindly take careful note of this verse: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:21). What is Peter telling us here? That every writer of every Old Testament book was writing or speaking under the influence and inspiration of the Holy Ghost. The Lord Jesus Christ regarded the entire Tanakh (OT) as divinely inspired. And the Holy Spirit was indeed given to men in OT times (see Psalm 51:11).
But the outpouring and GIFT of the Holy Spirit was only available after the finished work of Christ. See Acts 2.
I'm familiar with that but i was strictly sticking with the English for the point i was making in that specific post for a reason.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
wrongly as in false teaching.
as we can see its all Greek to you.
hope this helps !!!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Because you do not know the first thing about NT Greek as you just pretend to sheepdog. I demonstrated that fact from 2 simple passages from 2 Peter 1:1 and Titus 2:13. In both cases its impossible to be the Father from the Greek and the context. Let me know when you are able to make an exegetical argument to refute me, your ideas do not count as they are nothing but eisegesis.
hope this helps !!!
Again, I stated it correctly, you are just trying to bulldoze a false point. Carry on because it is still in error.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
the 2 person fallacy is all yours, you made that up to support your bias but as everyone reading this thread can see I supported its 1 person from both the Greek and the surrounding context from both Peter and Titus.
Let me know when you actually ready to make a real apologetic to defend your position. Until now its been completely absent in every single one of your posts in this thread. I on the other hand have made an exegetical and apologetic argument to support its 1 person in both passages- Jesus Christ who is identified as our Great God and Savior and our God and Savior.
Your snood comments are not an apologetic response but are just excuses to avoid dealing with the actual Greek text.
hope this helps !!!
No defense needed
God the father is the Supreme God, Jesus is God and the Son of God- the two are NOT the same person. I have stated that numerous times and nothing more than that.
That is the whole of scripture. Your argument is false.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Where is “ supreme “ god mentioned in the Bible ?
chapter and verse please ?
your assumption once again is false and made up out of thin air .
The word "supreme" is an English selection for translation purposes by the translator so by definition ( Supreme being the unchallenged #1) that usage ( in title and intent) is everywhere
From "Lord" God, "Excellent" ( to go beyond), "Almighty" and so on. In Job 38, God goes into detail about His "supremacy".
Now to Jesus
Matthew 28:18- Jesus was GIVEN ( by the Supreme) all authority (He didn't have it before He was given it)
Ephesians 1:20-23- When God raised Christ ( the Supreme raised Him- Jesus didn't raise Himself) put Him at the "Right Hand" (That position is for the 2nd in Command)
There are others- 1Peter 3, John 17
As i said, God is the father and Supreme God, Jesus is God and the Son of the father, The 2 are not the same.
Its that simple.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I a
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Lord God Almighty !
These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.
Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty
Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:
We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.
Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.
Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),
Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
hope this helps !!!
I am so happy you chose to use the word Almighty as a synonym for Supreme as once again you made my case for Christ as the Supreme God, the Almighty God as will see below when we compare scripture with scripture like any GOOD bible student who "claims" to be an "apologist" should be doing themselves.
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Lord God Almighty !
These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.
Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty
Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:
We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.
Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.
Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),
Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
hope this helps !!!
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