The Holy Trinity

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Irish

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[sup]46[/sup]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

This is not a big mystery, He was quoting Psalms 22 on the cross, beginning to end. His last words were the equivalent to "it is finished. So the whole time while suffering on the cross he was still teaching us. No weak moments here at all. If you study Psalms 22, you will see that he is talking about a future date. So to recap, He quoted the beginning and the end of psalms 22, which to someone reading between the lines can obviously see, beginning to the end. When he said "it is finished", he wasn't even talking about the cross.

What does Emmanuel mean?.........

There are three offices Of God.........


Irish
 

us2are1

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Christ said that God is Spirit. That makes God and the Holy Spirit one and the same. Christ said that He was the father. That makes the father and the son One and the same. That makes one Spirit and one flesh. But there is not three there is only One.
 

jerzy

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Considering the fact that there are three Persons in the One Divine Being is so clearly revealed in the Word of God that it cannot be contradicted, it is evident in both the Old and New Testaments...

A proof text woulf suffice.

Christ said that God is Spirit. That makes God and the Holy Spirit one and the same. Christ said that He was the father. That makes the father and the son One and the same. That makes one Spirit and one flesh. But there is not three there is only One.

Perhaps you should refer to hundreds of proof texts (like below) of God's word instead of to your reasoning.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob YHWH).
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

If according to Christ God the Father is Spirit. Then you have lost one of your trinity.

If according to Christ He is the Father . Then you have lost another member of your trinity.

If you will not listen to the scripture from where you claim to have gotten your faith then you will die in the sin of believing the lies of the devil and perish for eternity. Therefore repent and believe the gospel of Christ.

9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
 

jerzy

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Sep 7, 2012
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John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

What about this one?

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Perhaps you would consider the prior text to your quote?

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If according to Christ God the Father is Spirit. Then you have lost one of your trinity.

How come? Show written "God the Spirit" or "God the Holy Spirit".

If according to Christ He is the Father.

"If" is a question not an answer to me.

Then you have lost another member of your trinity.

I don't have a trinity.

If you will not listen to the scripture from where you claim to have gotten your faith then you will die in the sin of believing the lies of the devil and perish for eternity.

Is this your position on hundreds of proof texts of which I quoted few just above?

Therefore repent and believe the gospel of Christ.

I believe that every word of God is truth. I quoted few above.

Should I repent for quoting them?

Can you provide a proof text at least contradicting those above?

[quote]9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; [/quote]

Yet he always called upon the Father.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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What about this one?

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Your understanding is not all there. You can't go another sentence down to forget the previous one. They thought that Christ was a ghost. But Christ was actually there in the flesh.

God came and talked to Moses as a burning bush. is God a burning Bush? God came and talked to Job as a tornado. Does that make God a tornado? God came and talked to Abraham as three Men "three lords" at once. Two of which went off to burn Sodom and Gomorrah and one who stayed and talked with Abraham. God can walk out of heaven as a billion troops and still remain in heaven at the same time.

life is continuing because of Gods act of will. He did not create it and walk away so to speak.

24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
28for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, "Surely the darkness shall fall on me," Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You.
13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

These are all the Spirit of God which is the Holy Spirit and God is Spirit.

28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?








.If you have the Spirit of God it is God Himself that fills you.
 

jerzy

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Your understanding is not all there. You can't go another sentence down to forget the previous one. They thought that Christ was a ghost. But Christ was actually there in the flesh.

So he wasn't a spirit.

God came and talked to Moses as a burning bush. is God a burning Bush? God came and talked to Job as a tornado. Does that make God a tornado? God came and talked to Abraham as three Men "three lords" at once. Two of which went off to burn Sodom and Gomorrah and one who stayed and talked with Abraham. God can walk out of heaven as a billion troops and still remain in heaven at the same time.

How you know that those three man weren’t angels?

What you think of this?

Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.​
Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.​

These are all the Spirit of God which is the Holy Spirit and God is Spirit.

True, God is Spirit because man has no idea who He is and how He does His works.

However, there is a Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit by which God does His works.

You are just mixing up those in order for you to derive to a conclusion which is not supported in the scriptures.

28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Thanks for pointing out that Jesus refers to Spirit of God not God the Spirit.


If you have the Spirit of God it is God Himself that fills you.

If you have the Spirit of God it is that God does His works in/through you by His Spirit.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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So he wasn't a spirit.



How you know that those three man weren’t angels?

What you think of this?

Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.​
Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.​



True, God is Spirit because man has no idea who He is and how He does His works.

However, there is a Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit by which God does His works.

You are just mixing up those in order for you to derive to a conclusion which is not supported in the scriptures.



Thanks for pointing out that Jesus refers to Spirit of God not God the Spirit.




If you have the Spirit of God it is that God does His works in/through you by His Spirit.

Christ was there in the flesh risen from the dead He still had the Spirit of God in Him.

Angels are messengers. That is what the word "angel" means and nothing else. Where ever it is used it has with it the type of messenger it is.

You have many debased beliefs that are keeping you from the absolute truth of God.
 

Sabitarian

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To all of you Trinitarians, you need to understand the parts of speech in the original language. There were modifiers for male and female, you know adverbs, adjatives, pronouns and the like. Thus if you have a neutered pronoun as the Holy Ghost is translated from in the original it is a mistranslation as any neutered pronoun is It, that or the like and not him. A male dog that is neutered is no longer a male, but an it, as it can no longer reproduce. English does not have separate modifiers for male and female, but there are still languages that do such as Russian and translating from Russian to English has the same problems as ancient Greek or Hebrew, the modifier will tell you if it is male, female or it. I hope that this makes it clear to you.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

epostle1

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In seeking to understand the traditional family, Christians should keep in mind that not only are individual persons created in the image of God, but so is the family itself. The human family is the closest analogy that mankind will ever come to concretely understanding the Blessed Trinity.

The creeds teach that while there is one God, He exists in three distinct persons. The bible, on the other hand, reveals that man is made in the 'image of God'. From these two truths, therefore, we can acknowledge that the complete image of God is found in the Triune understanding of Him.

This understanding of His Triune nature is reflected by the human family whose personal relationships approach the likeness of the Trinity. There are multiple demonstrations of this truth:

Consider the unity of the Trinity which is reflected in the unity of the family. Or the "family of persons" which is found in both. The persons of the Trinity share the 'same substance ' while a human family becomes one flesh: wife with husband and parents with children.

There is also another element in the Trinity that lends itself to human likeness. The Nicene Creed professes this about the Trinity: "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life who proceeds from the Father and the Son."

In Catholic theology, the Holy Spirit is said to proceed from the will of both the Father and the Son, or in other words, through the activity which they engage in, otherwise known as "love".

The Holy Spirit is poured forth through the exchange of love between the Father and the Son. This is why perhaps Jesus says to the Apostles: " Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." (John 16:7)

In the eternal economy of the Trinity, therefore, a person 'proceeds' from the love between two other persons. And so, the Holy Spirit is love 'proceeding' or 'coming from' the first two persons of the Blessed Trinity. The human family has a rather striking parallel to this dynamic. The ultimate act of intimacy in a marriage mirrors the eternal exchange of love between the first two persons of the Trinity.

And like the eternal or continual procession of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity, the act of love between a man and a woman causes a 'procession' of another human person (i.e. the birth of a child).

Thus, it is precisely because the homosexual sex act is not ordered to the procession of another person, that it can never be a Trinitarian reflection of the divine essence.

Indeed, the sexual act itself, which is supposed to be a reflection of the Trinitarian relationship, becomes, through the homosexual act, a blasphemy against God since it ends up distorting the Trinitarian image of Him.

The human sexual act either affirms God's image or it distorts it. This is why all forms of contraceptive sex, including the homosexual act, are serious sins: they seek to create God in another image. It is anti-Trinitarian.


What is the Trinity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMI4rA4cuiM
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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The human family is the closest analogy that mankind will ever come to concretely understanding the Blessed Trinity.

There is no "blessed trinity" in scripture. There is one Spirit and one body. The Spirit of God and all of those who make up the body of Christ.

Even the first commandment states it:

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
 

Sabitarian

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kepha31,
It appears that you need to understand the different parts of speach, in post 69 I gave you the the the different parts of speach in the original language, but you following the Papacy and their apostacy do not see it for what it is. Who is it that translated the King James Bible? Thus if they teach trinity, they translate the masculin NEUTERED pro noun he in stead of "it" as the language tells us. That is why a man who has had his testicles removed is no longer called a man. I realize that you will never understand any of this as you have been blinded by the adversary and are not strong enough to study for your self and find truth. A concordance and interlinary could help in your search, but you will ask the advisor of the adversary for his understanding on this subject, which leaves you a slave in the army of Satan.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

revturmoil

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kepha31,
It appears that you need to understand the different parts of speach, in post 69 I gave you the the the different parts of speach in the original language, but you following the Papacy and their apostacy do not see it for what it is. Who is it that translated the King James Bible? Thus if they teach trinity, they translate the masculin NEUTERED pro noun he in stead of "it" as the language tells us. That is why a man who has had his testicles removed is no longer called a man. I realize that you will never understand any of this as you have been blinded by the adversary and are not strong enough to study for your self and find truth. A concordance and interlinary could help in your search, but you will ask the advisor of the adversary for his understanding on this subject, which leaves you a slave in the army of Satan.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
...and you call yourself a humble servant of the Lord Most High.

I really find your post disgusting and offensive. It's people like you who make people like me dislike 'Protestant-ISM.'
AND....

You are another one who doesn't understand what 'apostasy' is.

If the trinity were true (as taught by the church) Jesus would not have said, "The father is greater."
And he would not have said, "Only the father knows!"
 

Butch5

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Considering the fact that there are three Persons in the One Divine Being is so clearly revealed in the Word of God that it cannot be contradicted, it is evident in both the Old and New Testaments:Question,Whats roles do each members of the Trinity play in salvation?

Three persons in one divine being? That's not what the Scriptures teach.
 

Raeneske

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I seriously thought I'd never see so many anti-trinitarians as myself. I am anti-trinitarian. I do not believe there is only one God however. I believe there are three.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Simple enough, there are THREE Gods. These three are one, as stated in numerous areas I'm sure, does not mean these three are "literally one" as many would like to say. My proof that Jesus is a God?

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus Christ, being referred to as the Word made flesh (John 1:14), was in the beginning with God. Meaning, Jesus Christ had his existence in eternal times past. God (Jesus) was made flesh, dwelt among us, died for us, and was raised. Jesus is Divine as is His Father, which can be our Father. Jesus is also Alpha and Omega, etc. There are many titles that prove He is in fact a God, He is just not His Father.
 

Sabitarian

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kaoticprofit,
In the first place I am not a protestant nor a Christian, but a Sabitarian. I merely give you the Word in context according to God and argueing with the parts of speach in the original language will not give you another way to translate the scripture in context. Plus unless I am incorrect in my understanding of your post, we are saying the same thing, there is no trinity, but a duality. Father, the leader and Son the follower who does as He is told.
Raenenske,
Your scripture is miss translated and should be the Holy Spirit as in the Spirit of God the Father and Son. Not a separate person. Get a concordance and interlinary and do a word search on the original words and it will become clear to you.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

Justin Mangonel

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The central problem with speaking to some who hold the doctrine of the trinity as inviolate is that you are not dealing with people on a purely reasoned level. Unfortuantely, because it is heresy, demonic spirits are at the root of it and they drive the conversation. The difficult truth is that it is a doctrine of demons.
 

Sabitarian

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Justin Mangonel,
The doctrine actually came from the apostate Church and was warned about by Paul in one of his epistles. The Papacy [ high archy of the Catholic Church] is responsible for all of the paganism brought into the Church and the change of the seventh day to the first day is their claim of authority over all Churches as they have followed all of the traditions of the Papacy. Man made traditions are not of God and will be punished according to Revelation 22: 18-19. That is what Christ had against the traditions of the elders that the Pharisees were forcing upon the Jews.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

Pelaides

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The central problem with speaking to some who hold the doctrine of the trinity as inviolate is that you are not dealing with people on a purely reasoned level. Unfortuantely, because it is heresy, demonic spirits are at the root of it and they drive the conversation. The difficult truth is that it is a doctrine of demons.
The origins of the belief in the trinity is not demonic,but comes from Christ himself .Matthew28:19 "Go therefore,and teach all ,and nations,baptizing them in the name of the father,and of the son,and of the Holy Spirit".

Now for one reason or another it is interpreted by some denominations that the 3 entities are the same thing.
 

Justin Mangonel

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Sab,

You are very right...

The name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is Jesus.

What i don't like about the trinity is a few things.

1. It is a doctrine based upon intimidation and fear. In many circles you must believe in it or your shunned and possibly even told you are not saved. Talk about adding to the gospel.

2. It obscures the real thing that God is trying to show us through Christ. If Christ is one of three God's then there is no pattern for us mere mortals to follow. However, if Christ was a man born of a woman filled with all the fullness of the Godhead then that is something we can do...at least to the measure given us.

3. Any of the creeds are just ludicrous. They are documents of pure compromise without even any pretext at subtlety. Basically they are abuses of the meaning of languages they use terms is such contradictory fashion.

4. Jesus was not God but a man who was filled with God. God did not die upon the cross for that violates the very definition of what it means to be eternal.

5. Why on Earth would someone go to bat for the Catholic trinity when literally everything else they believe has been proven to be heresy. Salvation by works, indulgences, purgatory, vicar of Christ, icons (insert idols), celibacy for either sex etc. However, to be fair they did get the no birth control and not abortion stands right but I am not sure for the right reasons.

6. It makes it really tough to witness to Muslims who got the one God doctrine right a long time ago.

I guess when you are inside of this doctrine it has hard to see the forest for the trees. Try telling a Jew about the trinity and see what God's chosen have to say about it.

Having said that let me add this: Catholics are no more messed up doctrinally than most people when compared to the degree of revelation God wishes to give us. Really, anyone who actually listens to the Holy Spirit from any denomination is a good Christian as far as I am concerned.