The Holy Trinity

[Pelaides]

One denomination preaches you must go to church on saturday not sunday

one church preaches if you dont talk in tongues you are not saved

one church preaches you must immersed in water to be saved

whos right?whos wrong? all the churches have their strange beliefs and practises.

 

[THE Gypsy]

That's why it is important to follow Christ.

 

[Raeneske]

The trinity makes no sense. Someone wise once said something like this, "The trinity is not found within the Bible. You cannot convince me that I am my father's son, and my father has a son, and I am also my father, and my father is his son" - Something like that. It makes no sense, it's not found within scripture. It can be assumed into scripture, but it is not within it. As scripture saith, there are Three that bear record in Heaven. The Father (1), The Word (2) and the Holy Ghost (3). And they all agree in one. And as scripture says, Jesus is one with the Father, but we also are to be one with God, so it doesn't mean that they are literally one. When looking "line upon line, precept upon precept" we see that the Trinity is a falsehood.

John 17:21-23 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Let's stop and think for a moment. Jesus wants us all to be one, just as his Father is in Him, and He is in His Father. Can you please tell me, how human beings are going to be literally one? It that possible? No. But we can be one in agreement, and one in accord. Because the Father is in Jesus, does this make Jesus the Father? If that was the case, then that would make us Jesus, because Jesus declares that he will be one in us. And Jesus wants us one in Him and His Father. I'm sorry, but how much plainer can His speech be? He doesn't mean literally one, and never has he meant that he has meant literally one.

"Yeah but, Jesus said if you've seen him, you've seen the Father"

Yes, He did. But if we stop again for a moment, he explains this perfectly within the same chapter. This doesn't mean they're literally one. He manifested His Father's name (character) to the world. Which is why, when you look at Jesus, you can see His Father.

John 17:6 - I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

If you have seen Jesus, who manifested His Father perfectly, and kept His Father's Commandments, you have seen the Father. It's just like a Christian. You haven't literally seen Jesus if you've seen a true Christian, but you've seen someone reflect Jesus to you.

Isaiah 28:9-10 - Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

[Rex]

Raeneske
Do you think you can shoehorn all of that into this? It's a well thought presentation you have, nicely said.
I included the prelude because I believe it's most important.

[sup]9 [/sup]For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [sup]10 [/sup]that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; [sup]11 [/sup]strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; [sup]12 [/sup]giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. [sup]13 [/sup]He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, [sup]14 [/sup]in whom we have redemption through His blood,[sup][c][/sup] the forgiveness of sins.

[sup]15 [/sup]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [sup]16 [/sup]For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [sup]17 [/sup]And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [sup]18 [/sup]And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Pelaides]

That's why it is important to follow Christ.

Easy to say but hard to do.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Easy to say but hard to do.

Depends on your focus.

 

[Sabitarian]

Pelaides,
It is very simple as to what is right, just follow the example of Christ, He was baptized by immersion, speaking in tongues is merely speaking in a foreign language, thus if no one else understands the foreign language how are they to understand what is being said, unless some one is there to translate for them.
There is no scripture changing the 4th Commandment only the Catholic Church takng credit for the change as their sign of authority over all churches who keep the practice. Christ kept His Fathers laws including the 4th Commandment, thus if you follow His form of worship how can you go wrong?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[teamventure]

Jesus is God.

 

[Butch5]

The trinity makes no sense. Someone wise once said something like this, "The trinity is not found within the Bible. You cannot convince me that I am my father's son, and my father has a son, and I am also my father, and my father is his son" - Something like that. It makes no sense, it's not found within scripture. It can be assumed into scripture, but it is not within it. As scripture saith, there are Three that bear record in Heaven. The Father (1), The Word (2) and the Holy Ghost (3). And they all agree in one. And as scripture says, Jesus is one with the Father, but we also are to be one with God, so it doesn't mean that they are literally one. When looking "line upon line, precept upon precept" we see that the Trinity is a falsehood.

John 17:21-23 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Let's stop and think for a moment. Jesus wants us all to be one, just as his Father is in Him, and He is in His Father. Can you please tell me, how human beings are going to be literally one? It that possible? No. But we can be one in agreement, and one in accord. Because the Father is in Jesus, does this make Jesus the Father? If that was the case, then that would make us Jesus, because Jesus declares that he will be one in us. And Jesus wants us one in Him and His Father. I'm sorry, but how much plainer can His speech be? He doesn't mean literally one, and never has he meant that he has meant literally one.

"Yeah but, Jesus said if you've seen him, you've seen the Father"

Yes, He did. But if we stop again for a moment, he explains this perfectly within the same chapter. This doesn't mean they're literally one. He manifested His Father's name (character) to the world. Which is why, when you look at Jesus, you can see His Father.

John 17:6 - I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

If you have seen Jesus, who manifested His Father perfectly, and kept His Father's Commandments, you have seen the Father. It's just like a Christian. You haven't literally seen Jesus if you've seen a true Christian, but you've seen someone reflect Jesus to you.

Isaiah 28:9-10 - Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

The modern understanding of the Trinity is not correct. It is not three persons in one being. There is one God, the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ one Spirit. Jesus is God in the sense that He is deity. The Greek word "Theos" means deity.

 

[Selene]

There are three persons in one God. The Father is God. Jesus the Son is God. And the Holy Spirit is God.

 

[teamventure]

amen thanks Selene!!

 

[Thegoodground]

There are three persons in one God. The Father is God. Jesus the Son is God. And the Holy Spirit is God.

Selene, as a matter of interest where in the Scriptures do you find the teaching of the Holy Spirit as being a person?

 

[Rex]

Let me share my perseption
When God the Father who is Spirit John 4:23-24
When He said let their be light ---> there He was the physical manifestation of God ---> the first born of all creation Col 1:15

Jesus

The light of the world

John 14:16-17

 

[Raeneske]

The modern understanding of the Trinity is not correct. It is not three persons in one being. There is one God, the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ one Spirit. Jesus is God in the sense that He is deity. The Greek word "Theos" means deity.

I wouldn't refer to it as a "trinity", as I don't like to use that word, because it implies the meaning of today's Christian understanding. You are right, in stating there is one God & Father. And it is true, that Jesus is a deity. He is just not His Father, as others continually state. Paraphrasing a wise man, the trinity makes as much sense and me being my father's son, and him being my father, and also I am my father, and my father is his own son. There are three God's, though we don't generally speak like that. One God and Father. One Lord Jesus Christ. One Holy Spirit. These three, are one - in agreement. :) (As was indicated in my previous post).

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Considering the fact that there are three Persons in the One Divine Being is so clearly revealed in the Word of God that it cannot be contradicted, it is evident in both the Old and New Testaments:Question,Whats roles do each members of the Trinity play in salvation?

God - The Father, creator of all things

Jesus - The Son, came as our sacrifice that we might be saved.

Holy Ghost - God in us, gives eternal life.

 

[logabe]

Friend, you still have not dealt with the passage. In the Gen. passage it does not say that God spoke form heaven, it tells us the Lord on earth called down fire and brimstone from the Lord in heaven.

Jesus is the Son He is not the Father, he cannot be, consider Paul's words.


1 Timothy 6:13-16 ( KJV )
I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

No man has or can see God, yet men have seen Jesus, therefore He cannot be the Father.


1 Corinthians 15:26-28 ( KJV )
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Who is Excepted from the all things put unders Christ? It is the Father, Jesus can't be the Father and the Father be exempt from His autority

Jesus walked on earth for 33 years and very few knew who
he was. As the old man... you will never see Jesus as the
ALMIGHTY...

He will speak to us in parables for the purpose of hiding his
true identity... so seeing we might not see and hearing we
might not understand (Matthew 13:10-17).

10 And the disciples came and said to Him,
"Why do You speak to them in parables ?"
11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been
granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom
of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given,
and he will have an abundance ; but whoever
does not have, even what he has shall be taken
away from him.
13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables ; because
while seeing they do not see, and while hearing
they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being
fulfilled, which says, YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING,
BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ; yOU WILL KEEP ON
SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE ;
15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME
DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE
THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH
THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART
AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
16 "But blessed are your eyes, because they see ;
and your ears, because they hear.
17 "For truly I say to you that many prophets and
righteous men desired to see what you see, and did
not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not
hear it.

That is really hard for me to accept, but it is so true. I see
so many Christians that just can't understand the mysteries
of the kingdom of God, but that is exactly how God designed
his plan and we have to submit to that plan. So, if you don't
agree with me about Jesus being God... I understand.


Logabe

 

[Butch5]

I wouldn't refer to it as a "trinity", as I don't like to use that word, because it implies the meaning of today's Christian understanding. You are right, in stating there is one God & Father. And it is true, that Jesus is a deity. He is just not His Father, as others continually state. Paraphrasing a wise man, the trinity makes as much sense and me being my father's son, and him being my father, and also I am my father, and my father is his own son. There are three God's, though we don't generally speak like that. One God and Father. One Lord Jesus Christ. One Holy Spirit. These three, are one - in agreement. :) (As was indicated in my previous post).

I'm in agreement with you for the most part. I understand your reluctance to use the word Trinity, however, the original understanding of the Trinity is not what is stated today. The original is as I stated in the previous post which you seem to agree with. I agree that they are one in agreement, I'd also add that they are one is in the sense of nature which is what the earliest Christians taught. Jesus is of the same nature as the Father. Just as with humans, a son is no more or no lees human than his father, so Jesus is no more or less the substance of the Father. The earliest Christians used the example of fire. Suppose you have a campfire, then two day later you decide to start another fire. You take a branch and stick it into the first fire and it ignites. You then take that branch and place it on the wood pile for the second fire and it ignites. Now you have two fires, the second coming out of the first, yet the first fire is in no way diminished. The second fire though coming into existence two days later has it's beginning in the first fire and is as old as the first fire. This is how they said that Jesus was eternal, he existed in the Father before being begotten before time began.

Jesus walked on earth for 33 years and very few knew who
he was. As the old man... you will never see Jesus as the
ALMIGHTY...

He will speak to us in parables for the purpose of hiding his
true identity... so seeing we might not see and hearing we
might not understand (Matthew 13:10-17).

10 And the disciples came and said to Him,
"Why do You speak to them in parables ?"
11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been
granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom
of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given,
and he will have an abundance ; but whoever
does not have, even what he has shall be taken
away from him.
13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables ; because
while seeing they do not see, and while hearing
they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being
fulfilled, which says, YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING,
BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ; yOU WILL KEEP ON
SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE ;
15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME
DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE
THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH
THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART
AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
16 "But blessed are your eyes, because they see ;
and your ears, because they hear.
17 "For truly I say to you that many prophets and
righteous men desired to see what you see, and did
not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not
hear it.

That is really hard for me to accept, but it is so true. I see
so many Christians that just can't understand the mysteries
of the kingdom of God, but that is exactly how God designed
his plan and we have to submit to that plan. So, if you don't
agree with me about Jesus being God... I understand.


Logabe

If you'll look at that in context, Jesus made that statement to the Jews. It was not a statement made for Christians for all time. The reason they couldn't understand was because God was purposely blinding the Jews to bring about the Crucifixion. This blind was prophesied by Isaiah long before it happened.

Isaiah 6:9-10 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup] And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.'
[sup]10 [/sup] "Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed."



[sup]9[/sup] Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
[sup]10[/sup] For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. (Isa 29:9-10 KJV)



Paul also quotes it and applies it to Israel.

[sup]7[/sup] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[sup]8[/sup] (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. (Rom 11:7-8 KJV)

All of these passages are speaking of Israel and Jesus said,

[sup]24[/sup] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Mat 15:24 KJV)

There are three persons in one God. The Father is God. Jesus the Son is God. And the Holy Spirit is God.

What is God?

 

[Selene]

There are three persons in ONE God. The Father is God. Jesus the Son is also God. And the Holy Spirit is God. This is not an easy concept for humans to understand because our understanding of God is limited. We are finite creatures, and finite creatures cannot be excepted to understand something that is infinite in nature. With God all things are possible....and even human logic and reason cannot understand how this is so. For example, the verse in Isaiah 9:6 says that the Son is the eternal Father, Mighty God, and Counselor (which is another name of the Holy Spirit).

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Already, in the Old Testament, a prophecy is foretold of God's nature. The Son, Father, and Holy Spirit are one and the same God; yet, they are also distinct.

 

[logabe]

I'm in agreement with you for the most part. I understand your reluctance to use the word Trinity, however, the original understanding of the Trinity is not what is stated today. The original is as I stated in the previous post which you seem to agree with. I agree that they are one in agreement, I'd also add that they are one is in the sense of nature which is what the earliest Christians taught. Jesus is of the same nature as the Father. Just as with humans, a son is no more or no lees human than his father, so Jesus is no more or less the substance of the Father. The earliest Christians used the example of fire. Suppose you have a campfire, then two day later you decide to start another fire. You take a branch and stick it into the first fire and it ignites. You then take that branch and place it on the wood pile for the second fire and it ignites. Now you have two fires, the second coming out of the first, yet the first fire is in no way diminished. The second fire though coming into existence two days later has it's beginning in the first fire and is as old as the first fire. This is how they said that Jesus was eternal, he existed in the Father before being begotten before time began.



If you'll look at that in context, Jesus made that statement to the Jews. It was not a statement made for Christians for all time. The reason they couldn't understand was because God was purposely blinding the Jews to bring about the Crucifixion. This blind was prophesied by Isaiah long before it happened.

Isaiah 6:9-10 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup] And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.'
[sup]10 [/sup] "Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed."



[sup]9[/sup] Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
[sup]10[/sup] For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. (Isa 29:9-10 KJV)



Paul also quotes it and applies it to Israel.

[sup]7[/sup] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[sup]8[/sup] (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. (Rom 11:7-8 KJV)

All of these passages are speaking of Israel and Jesus said,

[sup]24[/sup] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Mat 15:24 KJV)


What is God?

Who is a Jew? Paul's definition is found in (Romans 2:28-29).

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly ,
nor is circumcision that which is outward in
the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly ; and
circumcision is that which is of the heart, by
the Spirit, not by the letter ; and his praise is
not from men, but from God.

Who is an Israelite? Once again, let's get Paul's definition.
(Romans 9:6-8),

6 But it is not as though the word of God
has failed. For they are not all Israel who
are descended from Israel ;
7 nor are they all children because they
are Abraham's descendants, but:
"THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS
WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh
who are children of God, but the children
of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Wow... what a mystery! Can we possibly understand the
implications of the statements that Paul has given to us.
Now we know why the Jews stoned him. Romans 10:11-13
says,

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER
BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE
DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew
and Greek ; for the same Lord is Lord of all,
abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME
OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Basically, Paul is telling us that through Isaac ( the promised
son) you and I become a Jew and eventually an Israelite. It
doesn't matter what genetics you have... what makes you an
Israelite is your faith in the plan of God.

I understand Paul was talking about genealogical Israelites in
Romans 11, but the plan was to gentilize them. Just because
one is descended from Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob does not make
him an Israelite. They are not all Israel who are from Israel.

As Steven Jones says,

God divorced Israel as a nation and maded them lose their name.
But he promised to remarry them in Hosea, and He will. However,
He will not marry the same carnal people that He divorced. They
will marry Jesus Christ the same way the gentiles do by having faith
in their King. Matthew 13:44 says,

44 "The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure
hidden in the field, which a man found and hid
again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all
that he has and buys that field.

We know the field is the world (Matthew 13:38). When God scattered
Israel and caused them to lose their name Israel, He hid them in the
world. The only way Israel could be "lost sheep" was to hide them among
the nations.

But Ezekiel 34:11 says that God Yahweh Himself would come to search
for His lost sheep. Yahweh God came to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ,
in part to search for His lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 15:24). So
the “sheep” are also the “treasure.” Jesus sold all that He had, in that He
gave up everything to come and die.

The most important element in this short parable is the fact that He did
not merely take the treasure when He found it, for that would have been
theft. In order to obtain the treasure, He had to purchase the field in
which it was hidden. Once He owned the field, then He could lawfully
claim the treasure in the field. This teaches us that in order to re-claim
His people, Israel, He purchased the entire world, for “the field is the world.”

This was the divine plan from the beginning, for in this way the world
benefited by Israel’s fall. Romans 11:12 says,

12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world
and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much
more will their fulfillment be!

The divine purpose was to gentilize Israel. By God divorcing Israel, she
became like all other nations in the sense that she was not married to
God. But because of the promises given in Hosea and other places, God
bound Himself to remarry and regather Israel into His house. Matthew
13:44 teaches, however, that He was to do this by purchasing the entire
field. Ultimately, this means that the entire field will become Israel, not by
physical genealogy, but by obtaining legal citizenship in the Kingdom of God.

In regathering Israel, the Gospel went to all the nations among whom
those Israelites lived. All began to hear the Gospel and have opportunity
to gather into God’s Kingdom. The way into God’s Kingdom is the same
for all people, “for there is no partiality with God” (Rom. 2:11).

Logabe

Who is a Jew? Paul's definition is found in (Romans 2:28-29).

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly ,
nor is circumcision that which is outward in
the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly ; and
circumcision is that which is of the heart, by
the Spirit, not by the letter ; and his praise is
not from men, but from God.

Who is an Israelite? Once again, let's get Paul's definition.
(Romans 9:6-8),

6 But it is not as though the word of God
has failed. For they are not all Israel who
are descended from Israel ;
7 nor are they all children because they
are Abraham's descendants, but:
"THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS
WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh
who are children of God, but the children
of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Wow... what a mystery! Can we possibly understand the
implications of the statements that Paul has given to us.
Now we know why the Jews stoned him. Romans 10:11-13
says,

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER
BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE
DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew
and Greek ; for the same Lord is Lord of all,
abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME
OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Basically, Paul is telling us that through Isaac ( the promised
son) you and I become a Jew and eventually an Israelite. It
doesn't matter what genetics you have... what makes you an
Israelite is your faith in the plan of God.

I understand Paul was talking about genealogical Israelites in
Romans 11, but the plan was to gentilize them. Just because
one is descended from Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob does not make
him an Israelite. They are not all Israel who are from Israel.

As Steven Jones says,

God divorced Israel as a nation and made them lose their name.
But he promised to remarry them in Hosea, and He will. However,
He will not marry the same carnal people that He divorced. They
will marry Jesus Christ the same way the gentiles do by having faith
in their King. Matthew 13:44 says,

44 "The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure
hidden in the field, which a man found and hid
again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all
that he has and buys that field.

We know the field is the world (Matthew 13:38). When God scattered
Israel and caused them to lose their name Israel, He hid them in the
world. The only way Israel could be "lost sheep" was to hide them among
the nations.

But Ezekiel 34:11 says that God Yahweh Himself would come to search
for His lost sheep. Yahweh God came to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ,
in part to search for His lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 15:24). So
the “sheep” are also the “treasure.” Jesus sold all that He had, in that He
gave up everything to come and die.

The most important element in this short parable is the fact that He did
not merely take the treasure when He found it, for that would have been
theft. In order to obtain the treasure, He had to purchase the field in
which it was hidden. Once He owned the field, then He could lawfully
claim the treasure in the field. This teaches us that in order to re-claim
His people, Israel, He purchased the entire world, for “the field is the world.”

This was the divine plan from the beginning, for in this way the world
benefited by Israel’s fall. Romans 11:12 says,

12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world
and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much
more will their fulfillment be!

The divine purpose was to gentilize Israel. By God divorcing Israel, she
became like all other nations in the sense that she was not married to
God. But because of the promises given in Hosea and other places, God
bound Himself to remarry and regather Israel into His house. Matthew
13:44 teaches, however, that He was to do this by purchasing the entire
field. Ultimately, this means that the entire field will become Israel, not by
physical genealogy, but by obtaining legal citizenship in the Kingdom of God.

In regathering Israel, the Gospel went to all the nations among whom
those Israelites lived. All began to hear the Gospel and have opportunity
to gather into God’s Kingdom. The way into God’s Kingdom is the same
for all people, “for there is no partiality with God” (Rom. 2:11).

Logabe

 

[Helen]

There are three persons in ONE God. The Father is God. Jesus the Son is also God. And the Holy Spirit is God. This is not an easy concept for humans to understand because our understanding of God is limited. We are finite creatures, and finite creatures cannot be excepted to understand something that is infinite in nature. With God all things are possible....and even human logic and reason cannot understand how this is so. For example, the verse in Isaiah 9:6 says that the Son is the eternal Father, Mighty God, and Counselor (which is another name of the Holy Spirit).

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Already, in the Old Testament, a prophecy is foretold of God's nature. The Son, Father, and Holy Spirit are one and the same God; yet, they are also distinct.

Well said,Amen x3
He called us to Faith, and that is the only way it can be understood...by the Spirit, ...and not via the mind...( except it be by the mind of Christ! :) )