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The Holy Trinity

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Boston, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I really don't think the larger print makes your arguement right or wrong, it just makes you look silly.
     
  2. rob

    rob New Member

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    JerryJohnson
    Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father.

    However, they also teach that before His earthly life, Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the ...the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (kurios), to the glory of God the Father.”
    I really don't think the larger print makes your argument right or wrong; it just makes you look silly.


    Rob
    Thank you for saying I look silly!
    If using the large font (quite accidentally) makes me look silly, then what does your use of a large font make you look like?
    Who then is he Father of Jesus and who is His mother according to your philosophy?
    What is a spirit creature? (Man is a tripartite being composed of body, soul, and spirit?).

    So now you are saying that Jesus is Michael the archangel? Please show me the chapter and verse which
    tells us this? Heb 1:1-6 regarding The Son - He is not an angel (Heb 1:5, & 13-14) but is worshipped by them (Heb 1:6)

    What does it mean to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father?
    In the Scriptures, Jesus of Nazareth has received many titles. He is called the Christ, Son of God, Son of Man, Saviour, and Messiah. He has also been called "Lord." Unlike many of the other terms given to Jesus, the term Lord is relatively common and as such its meaning is often taken for granted. But what does the Lordship of Christ actually mean?

    Jesus Himself gives the first inkling into the significance of being called Lord when He addresses a great multitude of people along with His disciples in the plain, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46). If anyone recognizes Jesus Christ as his or her Lord, then the first requirement from such a person is utter and total obedience. This obedience is given to Jesus Christ because of the authority that was granted to Him. Jesus said, as He departed for His throne in glory, ". . .All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Matthew 28:18).
     
  3. rob

    rob New Member

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    Logabe
    6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government
    will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor,
    Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


    Rob
    (For a child is born to us, A Son is given to us; And the government is upon His shoulder; And His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace).


    The child born of a human virgin (Isaiah 7:14) is the Son given by the Eternal Father. Christ is the child born of both the divine and human natures (Matt. 1:20-23), and He is also the Son in the divine nature given by the Eternal Father.

    Through the birth of the divine-human child, the Eternal Father gave us His divine Son as a gift. Through such a giving, everyone who believes in, i.e., receives, this dear Son receives etrnal life (John 3: 16; John 5:11-12).

    The phrase ‘to us’, especially by its repetition, indicates emphatically that every aspect of Christ revealed in this verse is for our personal and subjective experience.

    Government, rule or dominion. So also in the next verse. The diving administration is upon the shoulders of
    Christ, the wonderful One.

    Counsellor literally, Wonder of a Counsellor, or, Wonder, Counsellor. Christ is wonderful (Judg. 13:18), and

    He is also the Counsellor. He gives us counsel, and then, as the Mighty God, He is the power and strength for carrying out His counsel (1 Cor. 1;24).

    As the child born to us, Christ is the Mighty God (Matt. 2:11; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8), and as the Son given to us,

    He is the eternal Father (63:16; 64:8; John 5:43; 10:30; 14:7-10).

    Christ is the Prince of peace to us (Eph. 2:14) mainly by His ruling within us (Col. 3:15).


    (Verse 7) (To the increase of His government and to His peace there is not end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it In justice and righteousness from now to eternity. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will accomplish this)’.

    From the time, in Gen.11, when mankind gave up God as their Governor and made themselves the governors, the matter of government has been a great problem to man. But when the restoration comes (Acts 3:21), Christ will be the unique Governor, and the government of the Triune God will be upon His shoulder (v. 6). This government will increase and fill every corner of the earth (Psalm 72:8; Zech. 9:10b) causing the earth to be full of peace.

    Christ’s ruling on the throne of David over His kingdom will be first in the millennium and then in the new heaven and new earth unto eternity. Hallelujah!
     
  4. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    I could go into a long discussion of why but actually it is the translation. Modern English translations are translated from Hebrew Texts that were rather late in time. A more accurate translation is that of the Old Testament Greek called the Septuagint. Here is the same passage in the Septuagint.

    6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.

    http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm

    For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: [e] for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
    His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgement and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.

    http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/9.html
     
  5. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Rob,
    I think you are confused, I said (in post #41), "I really don't think the larger print makes your argument right or wrong, it just makes you look silly." I used the word "silly" because the word I wanted to use would have been frowned upon. My only use of large print was when I was quoting you. As far as the rest of your post I have no idea what you are talking about. Again, my comment was only that the use of large print does not make what you said right or wrong. I didn't even read what you said.
     
  6. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    Let's use your translation because I think it is very helpful.

    Revelation 1:8 calls Him “the Almighty.” What does this signify?

    Revelation 1:1 says that this is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Verse 8
    identifies Jesus as “the Lord God” and as “the Almighty.” The Greek
    word translated “Almighty” is pantokrator. It is a compound Greek word
    that means “all-ruling or all-powerful.” Even before the time of Christ,
    the Septuagint (Greek) translation of the Old Testament used this word
    as the translation of the Hebrew term, “Lord of Hosts.” (See 2 Sam. 5:10
    and 7:25, 27.)

    The “hosts” are the hosts of both heaven and earth. In Exodus 12:41,
    Israel was called “the Lord’s host” as the people came out of Egypt.
    This verse clearly shows that the “hosts” are more than just heavenly,
    but also refer to people on earth. In Numbers 2 and 10 (KJV) the same
    word appears many times to describe the men of Israel. (The NASB
    translates it “his army.”)

    The word literally means “an army,” but the same word is also used
    to describe the stars in heaven. Deut. 4:19 warns us not to worship
    the stars, saying,

    19 And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun
    and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn
    away and worship them . . .


    The stars were often depicted as the army of God or (in their position
    of authority in Christ) as the saints of God. When God prohibited the
    worship of the host of heaven, it was not merely a prohibition of
    astrology, but also of the worship of saints.

    Psalm 24, which speaks of the coming of Christ, says in verses 7 and 10,

    7 Lift up your heads, O gates, and be lifted up, O ancient doors,
    that the King of glory may come in. 8 Who is this King of glory?
    The Lord [Yahweh] strong and mighty, the Lord [Yahweh] mighty
    in battle. . . .
    10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord [Yahweh] of hosts. He is
    the King of glory.


    Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament, the Creator (John 1:1-3)
    and the One who gave the law to Moses. Exodus 15:2 reads, literally,

    2 “Yahweh. . . has become my Yahshua,” or Joshua, the Hebrew
    name for Jesus. This is repeated in Isaiah 12:2, 3. Jesus’ Hebrew
    name, Yahshua, literally means “salvation,” and this is why it is
    translated in this manner. Even so, it is also a literal reference to
    Jesus Christ.

    And so when Jesus identifies Himself as the Alpha and Omega and
    “the Almighty,” He is referring to Himself as the Lord of hosts in the
    Old Testament. It means that He is Lord not only of the hosts of
    heaven, but also of the earth. This foreshadows one of the primary
    purposes of the book of Revelation, which presents Jesus Christ as
    “the Almighty” (Rev. 19:15) and as “King of kings and Lord of lords
    (Rev. 19:16). It presents Christ as ruling His creation—the earth and
    all that is in it. The future is good. Jesus Christ wins in the end. His
    dominion will be from sea to sea. His will be an unending Kingdom
    that will never be destroyed.


    Logabe
     
  7. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    I'm not sure where you are going here. Yes Jesus is the one who appeared in the OT. That however does not make Him the Father. He is called the "All Mighty". We know that all authority was given to Him. Question, if He is the Father, who gave Him the authority?

    Consider,


    Genesis 19:24 ( KJV )
    Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

    The Lord on earth reigned down from the Lord in heaven.


    Psalms 110:1 ( KJV )
    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    David was the king of Israel, he had no lord among men. the Lord (the Father) said to David's Lord (Christ).


    Exodus 33:20 ( KJV )
    And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


    John 1:18 ( KJV )
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


    1 John 4:12 ( KJV )
    No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


    1 Timothy 6:16 ( KJV )
    Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Clearly this cannot be speaking of Christ who "HAS" been seen.



    1 John 1:1 ( KJV )
    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
     
  8. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    God spoke to Moses in Exodus 6:2, 3 and explained to him two names,

    2 God spoke to Moses and said to him, I am the Lord [literally, “Yahweh”];
    3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty [literally,
    “El Shaddai”], but by My name, Lord [Yahweh] I did not make Myself known
    to them.


    This is a most important revelation of truth. The name of Yahweh was
    revealed first to Moses many centuries after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
    Since Moses was the writer of the first five books of the Bible (the Torah),
    we see that he often inserted the name of Yahweh throughout the book
    of Genesis. Yet this was not to imply that the name of Yahweh had been
    revealed in those days, but rather to show that Yahweh was active during
    that time. The first occurrence of the name of Yahweh appears in Gen. 2:4,

    4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they
    were created, in the day that the Lord God [Yahweh Elohim]
    made earth and heaven.


    Hence, we know that Yahweh was the Creator of heaven and earth, even
    though He did not reveal Himself by this name for the first 2,500 years
    of Adamic history. Then in Gen. 17:1 we find a very unique verse,

    1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord [Yahweh]
    appeared to Abram and said to him, I am God Almighty [El Shaddai];
    Walk before Me and be blameless.


    Note that Yahweh told Abram, “I am El Shaddai.” This tells us that
    El Shaddai is also Yahweh. They are the same God, but God uses
    both names, depending upon the occasion. Let no one think that
    there are two Gods. There is only one God, but He uses more than
    one name and has more than one manifestation.

    El Shaddai is the name God uses to manifest the divine character
    of motherhood. The Hebrew word shad means “the breast of a
    woman or animal,” according to Strong's Concordance, word #7699.
    Thus, the name shows the feminine, or mothering, side of God's
    character.

    After about 2,500 years, however, God called Moses and revealed
    Himself under a new name, Yahweh. God had “changed hats,” so
    to speak. He was now revealing Himself as Father, rather than as
    Mother, because this “child” had grown to the place where he
    needed the firm hand of discipline from his Father. And so we find
    that Yahweh is the Lawgiver.

    These two names, El Shaddai and Yahweh, reveal to us that God
    is both our Mother and our Father. One God is both Mother and
    Father to us. He is complete and self-sufficient, needing no other
    god, male or female, to meet His needs.

    The point is...His Son was His Word that was made manifest by
    becoming a man. The same Word that spoke everything into
    existence became a man. So, in Hebrews 1:3,

    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation
    of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.
    When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right
    hand of the Majesty on high,


    He was the very "bosom" of the Spirit, which was the secret hiding
    place, and the ultimate center of the "LOVE of God", that was made
    manifest in the face of Jesus the Christ. Hence, when you have seen
    Him, you have seen the Father. You have seen the hidden and
    invisible God through the Love and Mercy that Jesus shed upon
    us at the Golgotha Hill.


    Logabe
     
  9. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    Yahweh is a term used of both Jesus and the Father. The term is translated in the Greek Septuagint as "Theos" which in the NT is applied to both Jesus and the Father by the apostle.

    However, you did not address the issue. The passage I quoted clearly shows the Lord on earth calling down fire and brimstone from the Lord in heaven. Two Lords.
     
  10. Miss Hepburn

    Miss Hepburn Well-Known Member

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    Huh? I'm more than confused by this post addressing me as seeing your true colors? Where did I say I was attacked personally? What diatribe?
    I know I haven't been here in a few days - but I went back to page 1 and I never thought anyone was doing any such thing.

    I'm confused. And on topic - all people here seem to have valid points - Jesus is not God the Father -Jesus is God the Father. What do I know - I'm too new at this I'm just reading the posts.
     
  11. rob

    rob New Member

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    Miss Hepburn,

    Please accept my humble apologies for wrongly attributing to you words that were spoken by Guestman.


    I am wrong and I need your forgiveness?

    I have rectified the posting made by me, by inserting the name of the one responsible, Guestman. I only pray he will explain why he made those statements in the first place as they are certainly not representative of my person!

    Thank you Miss Hepburn
     
  12. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    I am like Miss Hepburn, a little confused as to what was said that I need to explain. Please state what these were.
     
  13. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    Let me address this issue so we can clearly know who our God
    is.

    We read in Acts 2:34-36,

    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith
    himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right
    hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that
    God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
    both Lord and Christ.


    In other words, Peter identifies Jesus Christ as the “Adonai”
    of David's psalm. Jesus' enemies will become His footstool.
    This is confirmed in Hebrews 10:12, 13.

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins
    for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made
    his footstool.


    What I want you to see is...Jesus was the Spirit that spoke
    in the OT and He became a man that also spoke as a man
    at times and spoke as God at other times.

    God is a Spirit and not a man but, He was manifested as a
    man, and that man was called Jesus. Before He became
    that man, He was the WORD of the SPIRIT, in essence, He
    was BOTH Lord (God) and Christ (man) the Son of the Living
    God (Spirit).

    When that Spirit Spoke...that Word Spoken was JESUS. Why?
    Most people can't see at this present that Jesus is their God.
    Paul said in 1st Tim. 1:17,

    17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God,
    {be} honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


    In 1st Tim. 6:15-16, Paul gives us a hint of who He is,

    15 which in His own times He shall shew -- the blessed
    and only potentate, the King of the kings and Lord of the
    lords,
    16 who only is having immortality, dwelling in light
    unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is
    able to see, to whom [is] honour and might age-during!
    Amen.


    God is everywhere...so it wouldn't be hard for God to become
    a man and also continue to speak the Word from heaven.

    Paul said in due time we will all understand who our God
    is.

    My question to you is...who do you say Jesus is?


    Logabe
     
  14. rob

    rob New Member

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    Hello Guestman the following is your words posted on the 7th February



    "Do you think that putting your response in big bold fonts will make it anymore Scripturally correct ? In texting, this is called "shouting", as if you were screaming in another person's ear. Especially if you duplicate your words. This makes the trinity no less of a lie.

    Jesus himself told Mary, after his resurrection, that "I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."(John 20:17, King James Bible) Would Jesus have said to Mary that he was 'ascending to his and her Father, to his and her God,' had he been God, part of a "Godhead" ? Even an elementary student would be able to see that Jesus is not God from this Scripture.

    No amount of diatribe will alter the fact that Jesus never said he was God nor does the Bible in any way intimate the trinity doctrine. Attacking me personally does not build a sound case, but rather shows your true colors, as one given to perhaps a "fit of anger".(Gal 5:20)

    You use the example of Thomas as saying to Jesus: "My Lord and my God."(John 20:28) However, whose words have more authority, that of Thomas, an imperfect person, or that of Jesus, a perfect man, who "committed no sin" ?(1 Peter 2:22) It is truly a distortion of justice to see individuals, though professing to follow Christ, accept an imperfect man's words over the perfect man's Jesus words.

    Had Jesus been God, then why, was he unaware of the "day and hour" when the "great tribulation" would begin (Matt 24:36), and lacked "knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction" ?(Acts 1:7)

    You can continue to jump up and down all you want, but the Bible is very clear that Jesus is "only-begotten Son of God", not "God the Son".(John 3:16) Need I explain what "only-begotten" (Greek, monogenes) means ? Jephthah, a judge of Israel, had an "only-begotten" daughter, "and she was his only child".("only child", Greek Septuagint, monogenes; Judges 11:34, King James Bible) Jairus "had an only-begotten (Greek monogenes) daughter", being his only child.(Luke 8:42)

    So why did Jesus call himself the "only-begotten Son of God"? For fun ? You wish not to see that Jesus was "begotten", or ' was caused by a father.' (Encarta Dictionary) Had he had no beginning, would Jesus have used words that stated that he had a Father ? To the contrary, his whole language content would have been peppered with his everlastingness, without beginning. However, he himself said that he was "the beginning of the creation of God."(Rev 3:14, King James Bible)"
    -1

     
  15. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    Friend, you still have not dealt with the passage. In the Gen. passage it does not say that God spoke form heaven, it tells us the Lord on earth called down fire and brimstone from the Lord in heaven.

    Jesus is the Son He is not the Father, he cannot be, consider Paul's words.


    1 Timothy 6:13-16 ( KJV )
    I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
    That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    No man has or can see God, yet men have seen Jesus, therefore He cannot be the Father.


    1 Corinthians 15:26-28 ( KJV )
    The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    Who is Excepted from the all things put unders Christ? It is the Father, Jesus can't be the Father and the Father be exempt from His autority
     
  16. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    You have to see it by the Spirit. 2nd Cor. 5:19,

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
    not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto
    us the word of reconciliation.


    We have to recognize the Spirit was in the man and
    I know it takes the Spirit to reveal it to us.


    Logabe
     
  17. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    Come on friend, it is clear in the Scriptures.

    Question, you said, the Spirit was in the man, are you saying that Jesus and the Christ are two different entities?
     
  18. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    You have some very good questions but at the
    moment I am pressed for time. I will respond
    to your question tomorrow.


    Logabe
     
  19. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    That is a good question. The short answer is NO. Let
    me talk about it for a minute. Col. 2:9 says,

    9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

    Thus, the Father ( which is the Spirit ) dwells in that man. That
    man wasn't the Deity when He died on the cross... it was the
    humanity ( God's Body ) that died. Matt. 27:46 says,

    27 and about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a great voice,
    saying, `Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, `My God, my God,
    why didst Thou forsake me?'


    As a man... Jesus felt exactly the way we feel when things are
    not going so well. The man ( not the Father) cried to the Spirit
    when He felt the separation of the Spirit from His humanity.

    After the resurrection, Jesus ascended up on high and was
    given "ALL POWER" , in other words, He became ALL the
    fulness of the Deity bodily. For that brief time in history, Jesus
    was just like us in terms of learning obedience through the
    things He suffered. Now, because the man ( Son of God )
    overcame during His 33 years of humanity... He is now One
    with the Father ( Spirit ), when you see Him you will be looking
    at the invisible God. Col. 1:15 says,

    15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,

    Yes, Jesus is the Father, Son, Holy Ghost, the Bright and Morning
    Star, He's the fairest of 10,000, He's the Lily of the Valley, the
    Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Rose of Sharon,
    and yes... He is the Almighty!


    Logabe
     
  20. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    I'm glad to hear you do not think that they are different. I see you are at the other end, however, we are back where we started, Jesus cannot be the Father. How cold the Son be His own Father or the Father be His own Son? You said,


    1 Timothy 6:13-16 ( KJV )
    I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
    That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Scrpture tells us in Gen. and 1 Timothy that no one Can see God, a lot of people saw Jesus. Colossians says He (Jesus) is the "Image" of God. Here is the definition of the Greek word.

    The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament
    G1504. εἰκών eikōn; gen. eikonos, fem. noun from eikō (G1503), to be like, resemble. A representation, an image[/b], as of a man, made of gold, silver, or other material (Rom. 1:23); a monarch’s likeness impressed on a coin (Matt. 22:20; Mark 12:16; Luke 20:24); image, resemblance, likeness (Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 11:7; 15:49; 2 Cor. 3:18; 4:4; Col. 1:15; 3:10; Heb. 10:1). Eikōn sometimes may be used as syn. with homoiōma (G3667), and both may refer to earthly copies and resemblances of the archetypal things in the heavens. However, there is a distinction in that eikōn, image, always assumes a prototype, that which it not merely resembles but from which it is drawn (Rev. 13:14, 15; 14:9, 11; 15:2; 16:2; 19:20; 20:4; Sept.: Deut. 4:16; 2 Kings 11:18; Isa. 40:19, 20; Ezek. 23:14). Thus, the reflection of the sun on the water is eikōn. More importantly, the child is empsuchos (possessed of a soul) eikōn, image of his parents.

    G1504

    εἰκών

    eikōn

    Thayer Definition:

    1) an image, figure, likeness

    1a) an image of the things (the heavenly things)

    1a1) used of the moral likeness of renewed men to God

    1a2) the image of the Son of God, into which true Christians are transformed, is likeness not only to the heavenly body, but also to the most holy and blessed state of mind, which Christ possesses

    1b) the image of one

    1b1) one in whom the likeness of any one is seen

    1b2) applied to man on account of his power of command

    1b3) to Christ on account of his divine nature and absolute moral excellence

    Clearly this word means that one thing is a representation of another. It is not describing the same thing. The Passage is not saying that the Father is the image of Himself.
     
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