The Hour of Temptation

[charity]

Dispensationalism falsely teaches the book is taught in chronological order.

Hello @Truth7t7,

This is not true: for Dr. E.W. Bullinger (a well known scholar of the Word, rightly divided) in his 'Commentary on Revelation', where the study is verse by verse, directs the reader back to where the events in one chapter refer back to before another in a previous chapter. So, though treating it chronologically as regards order of study, does not deny the fact that the events themselves are not necessarily in that order.

Why is it necessary to denigrate dispensational teaching, in order to make your point. The subject of the thread is, 'The Hour of Temptation'. Why don't you keep to it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/The_Apocalypse-E._W._Bullinger.pdf

 

[Enoch111]

Why is it necessary to denigrate dispensational teaching, in order to make your point.

Christians should note that there is an irrational hatred for Dispensationalism and the Pre-Tribulation Rapture among those who are committed to allegorizing and spiritualizing Scripture. When false teachings such as Amillenialism or Post-Tribulationism are challenged and exposed, people do not reject their own false teachings. Rather they attack the truth. So be it.

There is nothing to be gained by insisting that Revelation is NOT chronological (in the main). Any unbiased person will easily see that there is a progression from the 1st century AD to the eternal state

 

[Jay Ross]

You are suggesting that these events have already occurred?

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Rev 16:20,21).

Well since all the islands and mountains are still standing, you are clearly mistaken. None of those vial/bowl judgments as taken place. Indeed nothing from the 6th and 7th seals has occurred.

I can tell you something once, then twice, even three times, but when you will not understand that the conclusions that you have reached or accepted are wrong, then their is no point in further discussion.

The highlighted sentence in your response is not to be read and understood as a literal description of what is to happen. It is describing the movement of people within the area where the turmoil was taking place. Something that is very different and observable as having happened during WW1. But if you want to believe that it is still a future event, then you will have trouble finding it.

Shalom

PS: - A couple of days ago, I was speaking with a friend about the 7th bowl judgement, and as I was explaining to that person some of the events that had taken place, like Babylon being remembered once more, the person offered up the sign of Jerusalem being divided into three parts as well as confirmation that this 7th bowl prophecy had already taken place.

Sadly, Trumps advisers on the middle east hold to similar views as you have expressed, and their advice to Trump is consequently not appropriate for the present situation in the Middle East.

 

[Jay Ross]

When false teachings such as Amillenialism or Post-Tribulationism are challenged and exposed, people do not reject their own false teachings. Rather they attack the truth. So be it.

AS YOU SAY, SO BE IT. Is you understanding any better?

Hello @Truth7t7,

This is not true: for Dr. E.W. Bullinger (a well known scholar of the Word, rightly divided) in his 'Commentary on Revelation', where the study is verse by verse, directs the reader back to where the events in one chapter refer back to before another in a previous chapter. So, though treating it chronologically as regards order of study, does not deny the fact that the events themselves are not necessarily in that order.

Why is it necessary to denigrate dispensational teaching, in order to make your point. The subject of the thread is, 'The Hour of Temptation'. Why don't you keep to it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/The_Apocalypse-E._W._Bullinger.pdf

Sadly, Dr. E.W Bullinger died in 1913 before the start of WW1 when he would have been able to observe that the events surrounding WW1 was recorded in Revelation 16:17-21. Referring back to what people wrote over a 100 years ago is not necessarily helpful in proving your point.

Bullinger, wrote his understandings of the scriptures from his vantage point in time, 1837-1913, before the 6th and 7th bowl judgements began to unfold, although the 6th bowl judgement had been unfolding from around 100 A.D. but this bowl judgement has now come to the fore in regards to its unfolding as we await the Armageddon event in our near future, after which all of Israel will be saved/redeemed.

Now the hour of temptation for each and every one of us is in the now, in our present time, but the Hour of Temptation spoken about in the book of Revelation is still a distant future event when there will be a great falling away of those who are alive at that time.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

Christians should note that there is an irrational hatred for Dispensationalism and the Pre-Tribulation Rapture among those who are committed to allegorizing and spiritualizing Scripture. When false teachings such as Amillenialism or Post-Tribulationism are challenged and exposed, people do not reject their own false teachings. Rather they attack the truth. So be it.

There is nothing to be gained by insisting that Revelation is NOT chronological (in the main). Any unbiased person will easily see that there is a progression from the 1st century AD to the eternal state

You mean the truth of historical Ahmillenialism.

No John N. DARBY 1830'S OR C.I. Scofield 1909 includes, dispensationalism is a young kid on the block, a New False Teaching.

There Is No 1000 Year Kingdom On This Earth, A Fairy Tale!

1. As far as a future Literal 1000 year millennium on this earth, no such thing in the holy bible.
   
   When Jesus returns, it will be in fire and "Final Judgment", dissolvong this earth by his fire, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5
   
   Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, with spiritual beings, there is no physical earthly kingdom seen or represented whatsoever.
   
   Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% spiritual world, no literal earthly kingdom is seen.
   
   Revelation 20 KJV
   20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
   2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
   3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
   4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
   5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
   6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
   
   Many are taught that Matthew 25:31-46sheep/goat judgment takes place to judge those worthy to enter a millennial kingdom on this earth?
   
   False, as this is the "Final Judgment"
   As verse 41 shows the wicked are judged to the "eternal lake of fire", and verse 46 shows the righteous obtain "eternal life".
   
   Matthew 25:31-46KJV
   31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
   32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
   33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
   34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
   35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
   36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
   37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
   38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
   39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
   40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
   41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
   42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
   43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
   44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
   45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
   46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Enoch111]

There Is No 1000 Year Kingdom On This Earth, A Fairy Tale!

You are suggesting that God indulges in fairy tales.

REVELATION 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are suggesting that God indulges in fairy tales.

REVELATION 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The thousand years is just one day, not long enough to have a kingdom on this earth.

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[charity]

AS YOU SAY, SO BE IT. Is you understanding any better?


Sadly, Dr. E.W Bullinger died in 1913 before the start of WW1 when he would have been able to observe that the events surrounding WW1 was recorded in Revelation 16:17-21. Referring back to what people wrote over a 100 years ago is not necessarily helpful in proving your point.

Bullinger, wrote his understandings of the scriptures from his vantage point in time, 1837-1913, before the 6th and 7th bowl judgements began to unfold, although the 6th bowl judgement had been unfolding from around 100 A.D. but this bowl judgement has now come to the fore in regards to its unfolding as we await the Armageddon event in our near future, after which all of Israel will be saved/redeemed.

Now the hour of temptation for each and every one of us is in the now, in our present time, but the Hour of Temptation spoken about in the book of Revelation is still a distant future event when there will be a great falling away of those who are alive at that time.

Shalom

@Jay Ross

'Shalom', to you too, Jay.

It is my understanding that the Book of Revelation is set within the period covered by the term, 'The Day of the Lord', or as in Rev.1:10, 'The Lord's Day'. That 'Day' has yet to come, I believe. You appear to believe that we are living within it now.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Truth7t7]

@Jay Ross

'Shalom', to you too, Jay.

It is my understanding that the Book of Revelation is set within the period covered by the term, 'The Day of the Lord', or as in Rev.1:10, 'The Lord's Day'. That 'Day' has yet to come, I believe. You appear to believe that we are living within it now.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Charity do you find that all the chapters below, are describing the same event?

Revelation 11:14-18KJV
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[charity]

Charity do you find that all the chapters below, are describing the same event?

Revelation 11:14-18KJV
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

@Truth7t7

Hello there,

No, I don't think they do.
* Do you?
* If so, why?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

The thousand years is just one day, not long enough to have a kingdom on this earth.

More fanciful interpretation.

It does not help to take 2 Pet 3:8 out of context and apply it here. Peter was specifically discussing the perceived delay of the second coming of Christ, and how scoffers were saying that nothing has changed. In that context Peter made it clear that for God a thousand years are as one day. So for God that delay is insignificant, and the reason for the delay is that God desires the salvation of all humanity.

But to make sure that no one interprets the Millennium as one day, God repeats the term "a (the) thousand years" (Greek chilia ete) SIX TIMES in seven verses. There can be no mistaking its reality.

 

[Truth7t7]

More fanciful interpretation.

It does not help to take 2 Pet 3:8 out of context and apply it here. Peter was specifically discussing the perceived delay of the second coming of Christ, and how scoffers were saying that nothing has changed. In that context Peter made it clear that for God a thousand years are as one day. So for God that delay is insignificant, and the reason for the delay is that God desires the salvation of all humanity.

But to make sure that no one interprets the Millennium as one day, God repeats the term "a (the) thousand years" (Greek chilia ete) SIX TIMES in seven verses. There can be no mistaking its reality.

2 Peter 3:8 was used to show "There Is No Time" in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm.

Revelation 20:1-6 is the Lord's eternal spiritual realm of no time.

Angel, Heaven, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ.

There is no physical mortal kingdom on this earth seen, and you know it

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7

Hello there,

No, I don't think they do.
* Do you?
* If so, why?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Charity you don't see the end of this world in both chapters identified, the 7th Angels Trump/Vial?

Revelation 11:15 "He Shall Reign For Ever And Ever"?

Revelation 16:17 "It Is Done"

"Same Final Judgment" Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:12?

Revelation 10:7KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:14-18KJV
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Jay Ross]

@Jay Ross

'Shalom', to you too, Jay.

It is my understanding that the Book of Revelation is set within the period covered by the term, 'The Day of the Lord', or as in Rev.1:10, 'The Lord's Day'. That 'Day' has yet to come, I believe. You appear to believe that we are living within it now.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Charity,

It is my view that the Book of Revelation covers up to three ages, i.e. over 3,000 or so years but the major portion of this book cover the last little while period which is probably only around 20-30 years in duration.

The expression "Day of the Lord" is, IMHO, is an expression like, "in that day" or "on that day" which can be reduced to just one day or can cover a period of time, the length of which is the event being spoken about.

Armageddon will occur at the end of this present age, Christ's second Advent will occur at the end of the Millennium Age.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Shalom

 

[charity]

Charity you don't see the end of this world in both chapters identified, the 7th Angels Trump/Vial?

Revelation 11:15 "He Shall Reign For Ever And Ever"?

Revelation 16:17 "It Is Done"

"Same Final Judgment" Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:12?

Revelation 10:7KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:14-18KJV
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

@Truth7t7

Hello there,

With respect, you asked me the question, 'Charity do you find that all the chapters below, are describing the same event?'
To which I answered, 'No, I don't think they do'. For the references you give, refer to different events which are to take place within the Lord's day. You replied by saying that the reference all refer to the, 'the end of this world': but this is an all covering term, within which there are many different events. These verses represent different happenings within this time of judgement, so I have to stand by what I said, 'No, I don't think they do'.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Chris

 

[charity]

Charity,

It is my view that the Book of Revelation covers up to three ages, i.e. over 3,000 or so years but the major portion of this book cover the last little while period which is probably only around 20-30 years in duration.

The expression "Day of the Lord" is, IMHO, is an expression like, "in that day" or "on that day" which can be reduced to just one day or can cover a period of time, the length of which is the event being spoken about.

Armageddon will occur at the end of this present age, Christ's second Advent will occur at the end of the Millennium Age.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Shalom

Hello @Jay Ross,

Yes, I agree that the term, 'The Day of the Lord', refers to an indeterminate time period.
I need to assure myself from the Word about the second Advent of Christ occurring at the end of the millennial age, but I believe you are correct concerning Armageddon occurring at the end of this present age.

Thank you for your clarification.
In Christ Jesus
Chris