The Hour of Temptation

[Helen]

That there are Jews saved during the Tribulation, or the 'Day of the Lord', yes. You find them in (Rev. 7:1-8) (Rev. 14:1-5).
And there are great number of Gentiles saved during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:9-17)
But though they are saved, this does not make either group part of the Church.

Stranger

I don't disagree here...well except slightly in the last line here which I bolded.

I know time will tell...but I believe that they will not be a part of the Bride company.
The Bride comes 'out of' the Church.

Just my two cense ...but no biggie.

 

[Jun2u]

@Stranger,

The character of a child of God is to be able to teach as well as able to be taught!
Why do you then insist on preaching a false gospel when the true Gospel has been given to you?

Again I say, Rev 3:10 has nothing to do with the rapture or tribulation. Rapture means “to be caught up in the air” while the word tribulation means “affliction” or “persecution” that we also find in John 16:33. Yet, Jesus said, “be of good cheer; I have overcome the world” that in me you might have peace.

Does John 16 give any kind of hint at all as per Rev 3? I don’t think so.

Note also what we read in Rev 14:7, “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment (sound familiar?) is come.”

As Paul would say in his blunt fashion, “let God be true and all man liars.”

 

[Stranger]

Study the life of C.I. Scofield, the greatest influence planting the (Pre-Trib) rapture and dispensationalism in minds and hearts of the unaware, through his 1909 reference bible.

He was a liar to his Dallas Church on his marital status, who left his wife (Leotine) and two daughters (Abigail & Helene) stranded in Kansas Without Support, as he ran off with Hettie Van Wark from his Sunday school class 18 years younger (Adultery)

Luke 16:18KJV
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Lewis Sperry Chaffee was his pupil, and they started Dallas Theological Seminary, #1 school for dispensationalist, Hal Lindsey, Tim La Haye, David Jeremiah, Chuck Swindoll, J. Vernon Mcgee, Charles Ryrie, on and on.

If it wasn't for the Lying Adulterer C. I. Scofield, dispensationalism would not be alive today.

"A Corrupt Tree Can't Bring Forth Good Fruit"

Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Are you a 'good tree'?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I don't disagree here...well except slightly in the last line here which I bolded.

I know time will tell...but I believe that they will not be a part of the Bride company.
The Bride comes 'out of' the Church.

Just my two cense ...but no biggie.

The Church is the Bride. The Bride of Who? Jesus Christ. They are of His Body. Of Him. Just as Eve was of Adam.

Israel is the wife of God the Father. She is divorced at this time for her adultery. But she will be reunited.

From Adam to Moses, the believers are of a separate group. From the Rapture to the Second Coming, those Gentile believers are the Tribulation saints.

In this is it not hard to see that God has created a family?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

@Stranger,

The character of a child of God is to be able to teach as well as able to be taught!
Why do you then insist on preaching a false gospel when the true Gospel has been given to you?

Again I say, Rev 3:10 has nothing to do with the rapture or tribulation. Rapture means “to be caught up in the air” while the word tribulation means “affliction” or “persecution” that we also find in John 16:33. Yet, Jesus said, “be of good cheer; I have overcome the world” that in me you might have peace.

Does John 16 give any kind of hint at all as per Rev 3? I don’t think so.

Note also what we read in Rev 14:7, “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment (sound familiar?) is come.”

As Paul would say in his blunt fashion, “let God be true and all man liars.”

Every child of God is not a teacher. It depends on the gifts they have been given. Can the child of God be taught? One hopes so. Some are quite rebellious.

Prove what I say is a 'false gospel' and what you define as the 'trute Gospel'.

I didn't give (John 16) as a reference to the tribulation spoken of in (Rev. 3:10). You did. So, you are arguing with yourself. How is that going?

Stranger

 

[Truth7t7]

Are you a 'good tree'?

Stranger

Good to see you acknowledge C.I. Scofield lived, produced his reference notes, and died while being married to Hettie Van Wart, while his wife Leotine Scofield lived, Adultery.

I have been married once 37 years, I'm not an Adulterer.

I fear God and his judgment, I preach and teach his truth and live accordinly.

 

[Stranger]

Good to see you acknowledge C.I. Scofield lived, produced his reference notes, and died while being married to Hettie Van Wart, while his wife Leotine Scofield lived, Adultery.

I have been married once 37 years, I'm not an Adulterer.

I fear God and his judgment, I preach and teach his truth and live accordinly.

I didn't acknowledge anything you said. I just asked if you were a 'good tree'. To which you danced around like like you were a contestant on dancing with the stars.

So, you have not added anything to what I have said thus far. When you are ready to answer the question, get back with me.

Stranger

 

[Jay Ross]

Study the life of C.I. Scofield, the greatest influence planting the (Pre-Trib) rapture and dispensationalism in minds and hearts of the unaware, through his 1909 reference bible.

He was a liar to his Dallas Church on his marital status, who left his wife (Leotine) and two daughters (Abigail & Helene) stranded in Kansas Without Support, as he ran off with Hettie Van Wark from his Sunday school class 18 years younger (Adultery)

Luke 16:18KJV
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Lewis Sperry Chaffee was his pupil, and they started Dallas Theological Seminary, #1 school for dispensationalist, Hal Lindsey, Tim La Haye, David Jeremiah, Chuck Swindoll, J. Vernon Mcgee, Charles Ryrie, on and on.

If it wasn't for the Lying Adulterer C. I. Scofield, dispensationalism would not be alive today.

"A Corrupt Tree Can't Bring Forth Good Fruit"

Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Perhaps your beef with Scofield should be taken up in another thread which you started on the Harry and Megan' marriage.

If people Google "C I Schofield," it is a good read about the character of a man and what he was able to achieve.

Sadly we are all sinners, even you, the only difference is the depth to which we go in our sins. Sin is sin and to judge another's sins as being "wrong" is to condemn oneself to be found guilty of one's own sins and to suffer the consequences of the sin of acting God like in judging other people. Sadly, we are all guilty of acting God like in this area of judging others and their sins and condemning them to the second death. That, in God's eyes, as far as I know, is equivalent to being a murderer.

I am sure that you would not consider yourself in such a bad light as that now, would you.

 

[Jun2u]

Every child of God is not a teacher. It depends on the gifts they have been given. Can the child of God be taught? One hopes so. Some are quite rebellious.

Again you err not knowing Scriptures!

Every child of God prophesies the Word of God! In this sense, every believer when prophesying the Word becomes a teacher. All this is what is called the Great Commission. “Go ye therefore and teach all nations...” Matthew 28:19.

All believers have been given the power to prophesy when the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost. This was prophesied by Joel and in Acts 2:16-18.

BTW, there is no such a thing as a rebellious child of God. Rebellion is a sin!

Prove what I say is a 'false gospel' and what you define as the 'trute Gospel'.

This thread for example! You have no understanding whatsoever what Rev 3:10 means. You take the term “hour of temptation” to mean “hour of tribulation.” Yet the word temptation in this context means “trial” or “judgment.” How you got tribulation out of temptation is beyond me, or is it because you have not done your homework well, or because you have learned somewhere, not through Scriptures, that the believers will be taken out before judgment begins.

And yet the Bible teaches all will appear at the Judgment Seat (bema) of Christ, whether they have done good or bad. When a person teaches something that is not in accord with Scripture, he is said to teach a false Gospel.

I didn't give (John 16) as a reference to the tribulation spoken of in (Rev. 3:10). You did. So, you are arguing with yourself. How is that going?

Indeed I did! You would never have thought of that. This was to show that the word “tribulation” is NEVER associated with the word “temptation” in Rev 3:10 which was your main false teaching, and not because you are lacking intellect either. So you have no excuse!

 

[Truth7t7]

Perhaps your beef with Scofield should be taken up in another thread which you started on the Harry and Megan' marriage.

If people Google "C I Schofield," it is a good read about the character of a man and what he was able to achieve.

Sadly we are all sinners, even you, the only difference is the depth to which we go in our sins. Sin is sin and to judge another's sins as being "wrong" is to condemn oneself to be found guilty of one's own sins and to suffer the consequences of the sin of acting God like in judging other people. Sadly, we are all guilty of acting God like in this area of judging others and their sins and condemning them to the second death. That, in God's eyes, as far as I know, is equivalent to being a murderer.

I am sure that you would not consider yourself in such a bad light as that now, would you.

One thing I do know, C.I Scofield the father of modern dispensationalism, and Dallas Theological Seminary stranded his wife and two daughters, and ran off with the Sunday school class girl 18 years younger, and ole Scofield stayed married to his death to this woman while his wife Leotine lived, "Adultery"

The Holy Bible states you will know them by their fruits.

God's word has already judged Scofield, God is the judge.

 

[Stranger]

Again you err not knowing Scriptures!

Every child of God prophesies the Word of God! In this sense, every believer when prophesying the Word becomes a teacher. All this is what is called the Great Commission. “Go ye therefore and teach all nations...” Matthew 28:19.

All believers have been given the power to prophesy when the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost. This was prophesied by Joel and in Acts 2:16-18.

BTW, there is no such a thing as a rebellious child of God. Rebellion is a sin!



This thread for example! You have no understanding whatsoever what Rev 3:10 means. You take the term “hour of temptation” to mean “hour of tribulation.” Yet the word temptation in this context means “trial” or “judgment.” How you got tribulation out of temptation is beyond me, or is it because you have not done your homework well, or because you have learned somewhere, not through Scriptures, that the believers will be taken out before judgment begins.

And yet the Bible teaches all will appear at the Judgment Seat (bema) of Christ, whether they have done good or bad. When a person teaches something that is not in accord with Scripture, he is said to teach a false Gospel.



Indeed I did! You would never have thought of that. This was to show that the word “tribulation” is NEVER associated with the word “temptation” in Rev 3:10 which was your main false teaching, and not because you are lacking intellect either. So you have no excuse!

No. Not everyone is a prophet or teacher in the Body of Christ.

There is plenty of rebellion with the children of God. Yes, rebellion is a sin. So?

The point of the 'hour of temptation' is to prove that God is keeping some from the 'hour of temptation'. So quite whining about some being kept from the hour of temptation. No matter how you interpret it.

Stranger

 

[Truth7t7]

No. Not everyone is a prophet or teacher in the Body of Christ.

There is plenty of rebellion with the children of God. Yes, rebellion is a sin. So?

The point of the 'hour of temptation' is to prove that God is keeping some from the 'hour of temptation'. So quite whining about some being kept from the hour of temptation. No matter how you interpret it.

Stranger

God's Protection For The Church During The Hour Of Earth's Temptation Below, The Righteous Enter Their Dwelling And Close The Door, Just Like The "Passover" In Egypt.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Hour Of Earth's Temptation Below

Revelation 6:12-17KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[charity]

Since this portion deals with churches, and within all churches there will be those are in the Body of Christ, one cannot say that the Church is excluded. And what is said by Christ is applicable to every church today which has corresponding issues or commendations.

Hello @Enoch111 ,

The church which is the Body of Christ will not be on the earth at that time.

Application can be made of the teaching and exhortations made in the book of Revelation by each one of us, for in that respect all Scripture is for us, but it is not 'about' us. That is the difference.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

The church which is the Body of Christ will not be on the earth at that time.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We certainly do not see the Church on earth from Revelation 4 onwards, but the letters to the seven churches were actually given to churches on earth at that time.

Of course every local church will generally have a mixture of wheat (genuine Christians) and tares (professing Christians only). But it is only the children of God who are in the Body of Christ.

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We certainly do not see the Church on earth from Revelation 4 onwards, but the letters to the seven churches were actually given to churches on earth at that time.

Of course every local church will generally have a mixture of wheat (genuine Christians) and tares (professing Christians only). But it is only the children of God who are in the Body of Christ.

Are you suggesting that the Book of Revelations is linear in its record? I also looked and found no evidence that the church will be absent from the end times after the events of Rev 4. Perhaps you may like to enlighten me.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

Are you suggesting that the Book of Revelations is linear in its record?

The book of Revelation is for the most part linear, i.e. there is a chronological progression from the 1st century AD to the eternal state, after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

The best evidence for this is that there are seven seals mentioned in chronological order, then the 7th seal has the seven trumpet judgments, and the 7th trumpet judgment has the seven vial/bowl judgments. All are progressive.

No doubt there are some parenthetical passages, but that should not lead us to think the Revelation goes around in cycles. God does not wish to confuse anyone.

 

[Jay Ross]

The book of Revelation is for the most part linear, i.e. there is a chronological progression from the 1st century AD to the eternal state, after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

The best evidence for this is that there are seven seals mentioned in chronological order, then the 7th seal has the seven trumpet judgments, and the 7th trumpet judgment has the seven vial/bowl judgments. All are progressive.

No doubt there are some parenthetical passages, but that should not lead us to think the Revelation goes around in cycles. God does not wish to confuse anyone.

Thank you for your response. Sadly, the Bowl judgements are presented in reverse order of when they will occur.

The 7th Bowl judgement in Rev 16 has already happened around 100 years ago. The mentioned events described in this 7th bowl judgement are recorded in the events surrounding WWW1.

The 6th Bowl judgement began a number of centuries ago, with the three fowl evil spirits going out to do signs and wonders around 17 years ago and the 6th bowl judgement has still some time to run yet before the nations of the earth assemble t Armageddon.

The 5th bowl judgement is a distant future event as I understand it and will not unfold until after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after the 1,000 years have passed from when it is to be locked in our near future.

Also Revelation 19 and 20 unfold as parallel stories with both beginning at the start of the Millennium age.

Revelation 12 starts back around the time of Christ's first advent, with a war in heaven that will rage for two ages and end in our near future when Satan and the other wicked evil heavenly hosts are cast out of heaven, after which Satan, the wicked heavenly hosts and the kings and armies assembled at Armageddon who are judged will be collected together and imprisoned for 1,000 years. After that Satan will rage because he knows that he has only a little while left before he is punished. When the bottomless pit is unlocked, the men who had been locked up will rise up from the pit with out of the smoke which is darkening the sun and the air to go about tormenting the people who did not have the seal of God upon their foreheads, for 5 months, but they were not allowed to kill them. After that, the four evil beasts, the wicked evil fallen heavenly host will go out to kill a 1/3 of mankind with the army that they will raise up for that purpose.

I think you can see where I am going, the rest of Rev 12,13, etc. The book of Revelation is not nominally linear as you are suggesting.

The order of the seven trumpets, the seven seals and the seven bowls judgements are all in reverse order of when they will occur.

The evidence can be see with the 7th and the 6th bowl judgements.

In fact the saints will be on the earth after Revelation4 as they are also mentioned in Rev 7 as those who have come out of the Great tribulation which does not occur until after the Bottomless pit is unlocked.

There is a need for us all to look more closely at the Book of Revelation as what the scholars have told us, is not necessarily true.

The Church will be on the earth right up and until the very end when the rapture will occur for those who are still a live when it occurs at the time of the GWT judgement.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

The book of Revelation is for the most part linear, i.e. there is a chronological progression from the 1st century AD to the eternal state, after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

The best evidence for this is that there are seven seals mentioned in chronological order, then the 7th seal has the seven trumpet judgments, and the 7th trumpet judgment has the seven vial/bowl judgments. All are progressive.

No doubt there are some parenthetical passages, but that should not lead us to think the Revelation goes around in cycles. God does not wish to confuse anyone.

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of the same events.

Dispensationalism falsely teaches the book is taught in chronological order.

They use the term parenthetical as the catch all escape clause.

Revelation 11:15 below is the end of this world.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 10:6KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 16:17KJV
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 21:6KJV
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[Enoch111]

Dispensationalism falsely teaches the book is taught in chronological order.

Even a person with no knowledge of Dispensationalism, and no other misleading influence, would conclude that Revelation is by an large chronological. But people choose to believe whatever they want to believe, no matter how absurd.

 

[Enoch111]

The 7th Bowl judgement in Rev 16 has already happened around 100 years ago.

You are suggesting that these events have already occurred?

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Rev 16:20,21).

Well since all the islands and mountains are still standing, you are clearly mistaken. None of those vial/bowl judgments as taken place. Indeed nothing from the 6th and 7th seals has occurred.