The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[CadyandZoe]

because of the size of the US, and their ability to provide the equipment that was needed.

Don't forget that the US failed in Vietnam and Korea, even though they are the biggest power in the world!

You seem confused. First you say that size matters, then you say it doesn't.

 

[Pearl]

1. the US doesnt need an invite.
2. Its not just about us but also our allies. We support them as well.

If you're talking about WWII it was the attack on Pearl Harbour that brought in the US.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

If you're talking about WWII it was the attack on Pearl Harbour that brought in the US.

this is in response to vietnam and onward wars

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is very insightful. However it's doesn't take away from the fact that not only did Jesus tell them buy them, some of them already owned them and Jesus never rebuked them from having them.

The issue is two fold here.

#1. In Matthew 26:47-56: We learn about how Jesus gave a multi-point rebuke of Peter using his sword in “Violent Self Defense” in protecting his family (i.e. Jesus); Note: Please refer back to my point #5 in post #953).
#2. When we read the New Testament: We learn that the apostles did not carry swords in the New Testament as per the instruction of Luke 22:36. We read nothing about the disciples carrying swords or using swords to kill or harm others in their own self defense.

So this means either:

(a) The instruction in Luke 22:36 that says, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” could have referred ONLY to the two disciples who were able to sell their garment in order to obtain swords for themselves (Hence it was the two swords needed to fulfill prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors, and not so as to use in Violent Self Defense or to make War), or:
(b) The disciples later took the words of Jesus in Luke 22:36 to be entirely spiritual in its meaning in regards to the sword, and other materials, or:
(c) The disciples took the words of Jesus to mean that the swords could only be brought out for times of hunting and not for using in violence against men so as to harm them or kill them. So only those disciples who hunted for food would be responsible in carrying out the task so as to feed the entire body of Christ. Seeing we don’t hear about these particular disciples who hunted for meat, this would explain why the other disciples did not have swords.​

Even the early church fathers had taught Non-Violence just like Jesus and the early apostles (while one is living out their faith).

There is the argument that Jesus didn't tell them to buy guns or bows and arrows... but I think it's pretty obvious why he didn't tell them to buy guns. Bows might be a good point, but so what? The fact is they had swords.

If we are going to follow the words of Jesus literally, then you must take a sword and not a gun. One must literally sell their garment and buy a sword with the money from that garment. That’s the point if we are to literally follow the words of Jesus exactly here in Luke 22:36. But I doubt anyone here is making that case (Although, that is what Jesus said and meant during that time period).

I don't want anyone to think I am for violence... in fact I'm pretty sick and tired of it. Not only school shootings, but big city homicides and ridiculous wars as well. The argument that guns are necessary for hunting and defense against wild animals is one I agree with, but some "wild animals" walk on two feet and carry guns as well. And some wild animals are tyrannical governments.

Again, it does not matter what we think here. God’s thoughts are not our thoughts. If Jesus and His followers taught Non-Violence (while living out our faith), and that is what we do see clearly in the New Testament, then that is a truth we must accept (Whether we like that truth or not). Most here have relied on their gun all their lives, and so for them it is unthinkable to ever give it up for Jesus.

What's the root of all evil? Is it money of the love of money? The correct answer is the love of it. Money itself isn't bad. It's the love of it; the problem lies with the person not the object. Same with guns. Can you honestly tell me that removing guns will stop anything?

Unlike the creator of this thread or the OP, I do not agree with us being concerned in trying to change laws to ban guns. I think it would be nice if there were greater restrictions on gun laws nationwide (whereby it would be difficult for a person to obtain a gun unless they were of sound mind), but I honestly would not go so far as getting involved or speaking at rallies politically to make that happen. I don’t believe in getting involved in politics to change the laws. The antichrist will seek to change the laws (Daniel 7:25). My mission is entirely different in it’s approach. I simply follow Jesus and His apostles in what they command. I look to them as an example. Do we see Jesus or the apostles teaching us to defend ourselves using Violent Force? Nowhere to be found in the New Testament if you read it, friend.

 

[JohnPaul]

You see I broke my promise, not to get involved in such threads, I just can’t stand ingrates who don’t appreciate they were saved and exist today because of America the Beautiful.

Jehovah forgive me!

 

[Jim B]

We failed because our govt held us back, just like in iraq and afghanistan. If you’re fighting a real war, then you go in and do whatever it takes to win. You dont create rules of engagement and go by the geneva conventions.

So, let's nuke everybody back to the stone age, correct?

 

[JohnPaul]

So, let's nuke everybody back to the stone age, correct?

Those countries never left the stone age.

 

[Jim B]

We will NEVER give up our guns.

that is a fact that the left need to learn and accept.

Very Christian -- not! Do you follow Christ or your own sinful, hostile, angry nature?

 

[Naomanos]

FIVE MONTHS until the End of the Tribulation.

Says who? You?

We haven't even started the tribulation yet. Also, what of your other so called prophecies? Why haven't all who were vaccinated died this month or by this month? That was one yours wasn't it?

If you think we're in the tribulation, then I am confident in saying that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. The Antichrist hasn't even been revealed, yet.

 

[Bobby Jo]

BUMP:

QUOTE: ByGraceThroughFaith

regarding the references to the "swords" in Matthew and Luke, it is clear that Jesus was saying in Luke, "it is enough" (Luke 22:38), not that 2 swords is all that they would need to defend themselves against a larger group of people. It is clear that when considered with Matthew's account, that Jesus means, stop talking about weapons to defend yourselves. In fact, this is clear from verse 53 of Matthew 26, "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?". This follows, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword". It is by the MIGHT of the Lord that His Children are really protected!​

QUOTE: Bobby Jo

You make wonderful arguments, -- however they're not Scriptural --, but if they were then you could explain why Jesus gave NEW INSTRUCTIONS to the church (anticipating his departure on earth) where HE told the church to take a PURSE, BAG, and a SWORD, -- ALL THREE -- when they go out. But you can't, explain ALL THREE, so you focus on the ONE in the hopes that the church will be deceived by twisting Scripture as though GOD would send Twelve Legions of Angels to provide for your NEEDS along with your PROTECTION.

And I don't mind that people abuse GOD's Word, but I DO MIND that they insist that they are OBEYING when in fact they are DISOBEYING.

So back to Dan. 1:21 & 10:1, -- if you can't solve the Luke 22 citation, can you solve the more simple Daniel citation? And conversely, if you simply want to go your own way and suffer your own consequences, -- GOOD LUCK --, because you're going to need it.


FIVE MONTHS until the End of the Tribulation.
Bobby Jo​

Isn't it interesting how Christians deceive their fellows? They propose a premise which is not Scriptural, and then refuse to defend the indefensible.

Dishonest/disreputable/deceptive, -- Just Like JESUS --. Yeah not.
Bobby Jo

 

[Taken]

That's your reply to my post that read: I have done my "homework" and, unlike you, know the truth?

BTW, how I conduct my personal life is none of your business. It's obvious that, since you know you've lost the argument, you now must resort to personal attacks.

Twisting the truth is obvious for others to see.

My remark was a question.
You should have noticed you making a STATEMENT, Calling someone Satan, the Devil, IS a personal attack.
You should know a ASKING a QUESTION, is Not a personal attack.

 

[Taken]

Your supporting evidence is “calling people who don’t hold your view”, Satan, Devil....? Correct! Your thinking is clearly Satanic.

I speak from the position of the Holy Bible.

You being quite familiar with Satanism, makes suspect, your Bible is according to LaVey’s visions.

 

[Lambano]

We failed because our govt held us back, just like in iraq and afghanistan. If you’re fighting a real war, then you go in and do whatever it takes to win. You dont create rules of engagement and go by the geneva conventions.

War is the application of force to accomplish defined political goals. Obliterating the enemy may or may not serve those goals.

Part of the problem with those wars is that the goals were not clearly defined, or they changed over time (mission creep), or the wars had unforeseen consequences (imagine that!) that put other political goals at risk.

 

[Grailhunter]

Background checks sound like a great idea. Someone who is already convicted for an offence with a firearm should probably be prohibited from owning one... Right

But here is the catch.
1. The person can still go get a gun from the black market.
2. The government will take advantage and disallow guns for anyone who broke any law even if it's not a criminal offence.

That's what iv noticed in Australia.

Well you are right.
Like I said the criminal justice and prison system needs to be revamped.
The background checks don't help much because all of the information about the mentally disturbed is hidden by the government.
It is called HIPA.... medical records are confidential.....privacy reasons....which is funny. That all started with the AIDS virus and they wanted to hide their medical records so people would not discriminate against the homosexuals that were spreaders.

So mentally ill people are not going to show up....
Criminals with records will show up sometimes.

Law enforcement does not respond to people saying they are going to kill children....the way the law works in the US, they come after the children are killed to arrest the killer or killers.

 

[Grailhunter]

You think that performing an abortion is murdering babies? There is no reasoning with you. How many potential mothers would you have die? (That is a form of murder!) How many girls would you like to have their lives ruined after being raped? How many girls should be forced to give birth after being abused by their mother's boyfriend? By giving your assent, you are creating murder by proxy. That is Satanic!!!

You are just hilarious....The world will end if we don't kill babies! We must kill babies!!!! It is our right to kill babies!!!

You do not rack up 600,000 babies a year in the US, because of rape, incest, or ill mothers.

Honey, I am not feeling good. We need to rush to the hospital and kill this baby.

Do you see why I think you have a problem?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So, let's nuke everybody back to the stone age, correct?

you never served did you?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

who don’t appreciate they were saved and exist today because of America the Beautiful.

like the Americans cannot be humble enough to admit their existence is owed to ENGLAND!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Very Christian -- not! Do you follow Christ or your own sinful, hostile, angry nature?

i follow Christ.

 

[Jim B]

Twisting the truth is obvious for others to see.

My remark was a question.
You should have noticed you making a STATEMENT, Calling someone Satan, the Devil, IS a personal attack.
You should know a ASKING a QUESTION, is Not a personal attack.

Your twisting the truth is obvious for others to see. How many times must you lie?

 

[Jim B]

i follow Christ.

Then start behaving like a Christian!

BTW, why do you call yourself a lifelong sinner?