The Issue of Calvinism.

[justbyfaith]

This is applied to His sheep.

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Look @ all the personal pronouns used. It’s talking about His covenant sheep. In John 10:11 and John 10:15, the Christ clearly said He was giving His life for the sheep. Ephesians 5:25, Paul wrote He gave His life for the church, His bride.

By pitting scripture against scripture, you are contradicting God’s word.

First of all, how am I pitting scripture against scripture?

Secondly, Romans 5:8 is clear that God loved us while we were still in an unregenerated state, irregardless of whether we are saved now.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are misapplying it, but sadly you can’t and/or won’t see it.

I feel the same way about you...

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Brothers , you are trying to describe the brilliance of a cut diamond to a blind man. Someone who refuses to use context and abuses doctrine and Scripture should be avoided. Maybe his pastor could help, if he even has a church.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Regeneration and being born again and being saved are synonymous.

No they’re not. Regeneration is the Greek word anothen. Soterios is the Greek word for salvation. Sozo is the Greek word for saved.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Faith comes first, then grace, then the Holy Spirit. The subsequent fruit of faith is actually more like faithfulness; which is adhering to the initial faith that comes as the result of making a decision for the Lord after being drawn to Him by the Father.

If faith comes before salvation, then one possesses a fruit of the Spirit before they are saved. That’s not biblical at all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Once gifted faith, it’s theirs to exercise. He exercise the gifted faith he received from God.

This brings us back to the key analogy.

Truly, for Jesus to give me the key to the door of my mansion is grace. But it is nothing compared to the grace that I will receive when I enter my mansion using the key to open the door.

If I never find my mansion and take possession of it, all I will have is a key in my hand.

I must take the key and turn the lock on the door (which is Jesus)...this means I take the faith that Jesus gives me and I place it in Him and what He did for me on the Cross. In doing this I enter into grace. As one who already believes, I have entered into grace by doing this.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I feel the same way about you...

I have been where you’re at right now. I know your system just as well as you do.

 

[SovereignGrace]

This brings us back to the key analogy.

Truly, for Jesus to give me the key to the door of my mansion is grace. But it is nothing compared to the grace that I will receive when I enter my mansion using the key to open the door.

If I never find my mansion and take possession of it, all I will have is a key in my hand.

I must take the key and turn the lock on the door (which is Jesus)...this means I take the faith that Jesus gives me and I place it in Him and what He did for me on the Cross. In doing this I enter into grace. As one who already believes, I have entered into grace by doing this.

Wrong analogy. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit. If one has faith, they also have a fruit of the Spirit. If one has faith, they are justified.[Romans 5:1]

 

[CoreIssue]

First of all, how am I putting scripture against scripture?

Secondly, Romans 5:8 is clear that God loved us while we were still in an unregenerated state, irregardless of whether we are saved now.

God loves everyone.

The second person of the Trinity incarnated and died on the cross out of that love so that everyone could live.

Those that accept the invitation freely saved. Those that reject it are not. But it does not change his love. He will still send the unrepentant to the lake for eternity because God is just.

None of this Calvinism judgment that is love free.

 

[justbyfaith]

No they’re not. Regeneration is the Greek word anothen. Soterios is the Greek word for salvation. Sozo is the Greek word for saved.

They are synonyms even in the Greek

If faith comes before salvation, then one possesses a fruit of the Spirit before they are saved. That’s not biblical at all.

It is biblical. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

In your scenario, we cannot have access to grace until we have been saved for some period of time. It takes time for fruit to grow, you know.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

This brings us back to the key analogy.

Truly, for Jesus to give me the key to the door of my mansion is grace. But it is nothing compared to the grace that I will receive when I enter my mansion using the key to open the door.

If I never find my mansion and take possession of it, all I will have is a key in my hand.

I must take the key and turn the lock on the door (which is Jesus)...this means I take the faith that Jesus gives me and I place it in Him and what He did for me on the Cross. In doing this I enter into grace. As one who already believes, I have entered into grace by doing this.

Um, no.

Jesus says you are unable; John 6:44. You say you are. Wonder who to believe? Christ? Or you?

 

[SovereignGrace]

First of all, how am I putting scripture against scripture?

The Bible says in John 10:11, John 10:15, and Ephesians 5:25, the Christ gave His life for specific ppl, not all mankind. You say He died for everyone without exception. That’s pitting scripture against scripture.

Secondly, Romans 5:8 is clear that God loved us while we were still in an unregenerated state, irregardless of whether we are saved now.

But the context is directed to believers not unbelievers. Again, you’re pitting scripture against scripture.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

They're just going to keep on fighting for what they did bro. It's the Gospel of themselves. They have not believed the Gospel at all. Quasi gospel.

 

[justbyfaith]

The second person of the Trinity incarnated and died on the cross out of that love so that everyone could live.

The 1st person of the Trinity incarnated and in doing so became the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Isaiah 9:6. But if we argue this here, it will derail the thread. There are other threads that speak adequately on this subject, so if you want to argue the issue, go to them or else create a new thread.

 

[CoreIssue]

Brothers , you are trying to describe the brilliance of a cut diamond to a blind man. Someone who refuses to use context and abuses doctrine and Scripture should be avoided. Maybe his pastor could help, if he even has a church.

And someone who believes we have no choice about salvation might as well be shouting in the middle of the desert alone.

They are not preaching love, just pointless Babble. What they say has no impact on celebration for anyone per their own beliefs.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Now he's pretending to know Greek. Bros, he's just making up things as he goes along.

 

[CoreIssue]

The 1st person of the Trinity incarnated and in doing so became the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Isaiah 9:6. But if we argue this here, it will derail the thread. there are other threads that speak adequately on this subject, so if you want to argue the issue, go to them or else create a new thread.

I am a Trinitarian. You are a modalist.

I agree this is the wrong thread. I will drop it with God appear to Abraham as three men, not just one.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They are synonyms even in the Greek

Since when is sozo, soterios, and anothen synonymous with each other? Saved and salvation mean deliverance, in this instance, delivered(saved) from sin. Anothen means birth from above, new birth, born again, born anew.

It is biblical. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

In your scenario, we cannot have access to grace until we have been saved for some period of time. It takes time for fruit to grow, you know.

Yes, we(believers) have access. Unbelievers? Not so much. The very moment one has faith, they’re saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible says in John 10:11, John 10:15, and Ephesians 5:25, the Christ gave His life for specific ppl, not all mankind. You say He died for everyone without exception. That’s pitting scripture against scripture.



But the context is directed to believers not unbelievers. Again, you’re pitting scripture against scripture.

What scripture did I use to pit against your scripture?

If I already quoted it, then are you not pitting your scripture against my scripture?

 

[Dave L]

The 1st person of the Trinity incarnated and in doing so became the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Isaiah 9:6. But if we argue this here, it will derail the thread. There are other threads that speak adequately on this subject, so if you want to argue the issue, go to them or else create a new thread.

The 2nd person of the trinity is eternally begotten by the first person from whom together proceeds the 3rd person. God does not change, and he is not a split personality as modalists claim.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am a Trinitarian. You are a modalist.

I agree this is the wrong thread. I will drop it with God appear to Abraham as three men, not just one.

I am not a modalist; but you would label me as that because you disagree with my understanding. The only way that you will ever understand the Trinity is if you get baptized in Jesus' Name.

And two of the men were angels, if you look at Genesis 18:33 and Genesis 19:1.