The Issue of Calvinism.

[SovereignGrace]

I used it as proof that God loves the sinner. If you see it as contradicting your interpretation of those other verses, then that is your intellectual problem to deal with.

God loves sinners in the Christ. God’s love is found solely in His Son.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm currently going to a church that does not baptize in the name of Jesus.

Do you believe in the name of Jesus only baptism?

 

[justbyfaith]

Regeneration(born again) and salvation(saved from sin) happen simultaneously.

Faith is the catalyst for "both of them".

Now you’re winging it. Now you’re making it up as you go.

Going by what the Spirit tells me.

1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21, I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Faith is the catalyst for "both of them".



Going by what the Spirit tells me.

1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21, I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

The new birth and salvation happen simultaneously. One is not saved without having the new birth, nor does someone have the new birth without being saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

God loves sinners in the Christ. God’s love is found solely in His Son.

"sinners" in Romans 5:8 is referring to us before we were saved from sin (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14).

 

[justbyfaith]

The new birth and salvation happen simultaneously. One is not saved without having the new birth, nor does someone have the new birth without being saved.

Your point?

 

[SovereignGrace]

"sinners" in Romans 5:8 is referring to us before we were saved from sin (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14).

Yes. But His sheep were chosen in Him from before creation.[Ephesians 1:4]

 

[CoreIssue]

You are not considering the Son as begotten according to scripture. And God is eternal without change = eternally begotten.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.[John 1:14]

Begotten of the Father does not mean the Christ had a beginning, but that He came forth from the Father. He came forth from the Father when He became the incarnate Christ, the God-man.

So you believe a piece of the father became Christ. It's separated from father into an independent person.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your point?

You said faith was the catalyst for both. Not so. They happen simultaneously.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you believe in the name of Jesus only baptism?

I believe that a case can be made for it in scripture.

A case can also be made that a man can be saved apart from Jesus only baptism.

So I set it forth as a point of contact for faith so that one might have absolute assurance of salvation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So you believe a piece of the father became Christ. It's separated from father into an independent person.

No. But the Father is not the Son. The Son left heaven to become the God-man. There are three Persons, but only one God in the Godhead.

 

[justbyfaith]

You said faith was the catalyst for both. Not so. They happen simultaneously.

I put that in quotes. And also, neither one happens apart from faith in Jesus.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe that a case can be made for it in scripture.

A case can also be made that a man can be saved apart from Jesus only baptism.

So I set it forth as a point of contact for faith so that one might have absolute assurance of salvation.

Thank you for your answer my friend.

 

[Dave L]

So you believe a piece of the father became Christ. It's separated from father into an independent person.

Not at all. God is indivisible eternally existing as the Father who begets (generates) the Son, from whom together proceeds the Holy Spirit. This before the creation of time, so there is not a time between the begetting and the begotten.

 

[CoreIssue]

No. But the Father is not the Son. The Son left heaven to become the God-man. There are three Person, but only one God in the Godhead.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes. But His sheep were chosen in Him from before creation.[Ephesians 1:4]

You're grasping at straws here.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I put that in quotes. And also, neither one happens apart from faith in Jesus.

Faith, repentance, regeneration, expiation, all makeup salvation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You're grasping at straws here.

We were chosen in Christ from before creation. No grasping at all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Faith, repentance, regeneration, expiation, all makeup salvation.

We are saved by the grace of God. Faith in scripture is a catalyst for entering into grace.

We were chosen in Christ from before creation. No grasping at all.

That is from the eternal perspective. From the perspective of time, God loved us while we were still sinners, i.e. outside of Christ.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Well, gentleman, it all reminds me of Scripture on two levels. When people heard Jesus say they can't come to him, are unable, they stopped following him; John 6:63-66. Contextually they were unbelievers. Note John 6:64; John 6:67ff, and John 6:69 specifically. So, our first set of unbelievers.

Over and again Paul preached the Gospel, and some would not believe his message. They hated his message just like those who left Christ hated his message. These unbelievers would beat him, stone him, lie about him, make false assertions, level false accusations, and insult him.

Of course Christ was the forerunner to much more violent abuse for preaching the Gospel we preach, and died on a cross like a common criminal only to raise again three days later.

We see the very same thing in this thread. Nothing new under the sun. We are dealing with unbelievers that do not like or believe the parameters of the Gospel of Christ. So they don't believe what is shown them, they twist the word, our words, then call others Satan, other names, they lie, falsely accuse and insult.

Yep. Nothing new under the Sun brothers, but keep on preaching that Gospel. Some will believe. God chose them to salvation prior to the foundation of the world.