The Issue of Calvinism.

[justbyfaith]

Thank you for your answer my friend.

Consider that Acts 2:38-39 is a conditional promise. And that if you really compare this scripture with Rom 8:30, and emphasize the word "call" "called" you cannot help but come to a specific conclusion.

 

[CoreIssue]

No. But the Father is not the Son. The Son left heaven to become the God-man. There are three Persons, but only one God in the Godhead.

The Bible already used and defined the term son of God in Adam.
His flesh was begotten/formed by God from the ground. Then his spirit was breathed into that flesh by God.

So a process and definition is already given in the Bible.

God formed the flesh of Jesus Christ in Mary from the elements of the earth in her. Then the second person of the Trinity entered that flesh making a living person.

Hence God became his father and he the son of the father. But not until the incarnation. Prior was eternal promise, not reality.

The Bible says both Jesus and Adam are son of God.

When saved we become sons of God when the Holy Spirit enters our spirits in our flesh bodies.

There is an absolute pattern and process here.

And here is another example where the KJV confuses people. Only in the KJV does it call Angels sons of God.

Adam was begotten by God. The flesh of Christ begotten by God. Our glorified bodies will be begotten by God. Our spirits are given by God.

Jesus Christ is 100% man in his flesh and 100% God. This flesh is not God. His spirit is not man. But together, as with our flesh and spirits, we are persons/souls.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, gentleman, it all reminds me of Scripture on two levels. When people heard Jesus say they can't come to him, are unable, they stopped following him; John 6:63-66. Contextually they were unbelievers. Note John 6:64; John 6:67ff, and John 6:69 specifically. So, our first set of unbelievers.

Over and again Paul preached the Gospel, and some would not believe his message. They hated his message just like those who left Christ hated his message. These unbelievers would beat him, stone him, lie about him, make false assertions, level false accusations, and insult him.

Of course Christ was the forerunner to much more violent abuse for preaching the Gospel we preach, and died on a cross like a common criminal only to raise again three days later.

We see the very same thing in this thread. Nothing new under the sun. We are dealing with unbelievers that do not like or believe the parameters of the Gospel of Christ. So they don't believe what is shown them, they twist the word, our words, then call others Satan, other names, they lie, falsely accuse and insult.

Yep. Nothing new under the Sun brothers, but keep on preaching that Gospel. Some will believe. God chose them to salvation prior to the foundation of the world.

That is an incomplete statement from you. You believe the only ones who will believe are those chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible already used and defined the term son of God in Adam.
His flesh was begotten/formed by God from the ground. Then his spirit was breathed into that flesh by God.

So a process and definition is already given in the Bible.

God formed the flesh of Jesus Christ in Mary from the elements of the earth in her. Then the second person of the Trinity entered that flesh making a living person.

Hence God became his father and he the son of the father. But not until the incarnation. Prior was eternal promise, not reality.

The Bible says both Jesus and Adam are son of God.

When saved we become sons of God when the Holy Spirit enters our spirits in our flesh bodies.

There is an absolute pattern and process here.

And here is another example where the KJV confuses people. Only in the KJV does it call Angels sons of God.

Adam was begotten by God. The flesh of Christ begotten by God. Our glorified bodies will be begotten by God. Our spirits are given by God.

Jesus Christ is 100% man in his flesh and 100% God. This flesh is not God. His spirit is not man. But together, as with our flesh and spirits, we are persons/souls.

I don't give what @CoreIssue is saying a lot of weight as it appears to me to be pure conjecture.

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't give what you are saying a lot of weight as it appears to me to be pure conjecture.

I pointed out what the Bible says. Where did I error?

 

[justbyfaith]

I pointed out what the Bible says. Where did I error?

If you want to start another thread, perhaps we might discuss it there. Nevertheless, I don't have much more to say on the subject of the Trinity. I have said my piece in the following thread:

Trinity vs. Tritheism

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, are we to hate Satan or love him less than God?[Matthew 6:24]

satan is not to be our master at all.

 

[justbyfaith]

For example: "For if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead"

...thou shalt be saved.

 

[OzSpen]

Now he's pretending to know Greek. Bros, he's just making up things as he goes along.

Who's pretending to know Greek?

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,
When you go to websites that oppose the doctrines of grace ,keep in mind that those persons do not understand the teaching either.
If you need me to, I will shred the got questions responses when I get on my computer.
The five errors I listed are all in view.....starting with an unbiblical view of foreknowledge.
It is followed by ignoring the everyone believing in Jn 3:16.

Followed by the mangled 2 pet3:9...not one who Peter is speaking of will be lost....
Topped off with adding "the sins of" to 1jn2...notice those words are in italics as they are not in the text...

AD,

You claim that in 1 John 2:2, 'adding "the sins of" to 1jn2...notice those words are in italics as they are not in the text'.

Let's check the Greek text for this verse:

2 καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστιν περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν, οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου (SBLGNT).​

Please translate this verse from Greek to English for us.

This is the Textus Receptus Greek text for 1 John:

2:2 καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστιν περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου​

To which Greek text did you refer when you stated 'adding "the sins of" to 1jn2...notice those words are in italics as they are not in the text'?

Do you read and understand the vocab, grammar and syntax of NT Greek? Or are you repeating what someone else or some website has told you?

Oz

 

[justbyfaith]

Um, no.

Jesus says you are unable; John 6:44. You say you are. Wonder who to believe? Christ? Or you?

When God commands, He gives the ability to obey the command.

See Matthew 12:13; Matthew 14:28-29.

 

[justbyfaith]

He won’t argue my exegesis of Ezekiel 37(which utterly destroyed his stance) but quotes Romans 5:2 for the 1,675,876,087 time.

It seems to me that you are pitting Ezekiel 37 against Romans 5:2.

I would block with an offensive blow from the club in my other hand (a passage), rather than defend with the sharpness of my sword (the verse you were expecting me to pit against your club).

Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Who's ...

I've given you enough to chew on. You have some texts to address, and questions to answer if we're going to have productive dialog. This won't be a one-way street. Respectfully answer the texts after you spend a few days going over them, and commentary. I can supply you with material if need be, for free,

 

[justbyfaith]

And, then, I would strike home with a quick, sharp stab from Romans 5:2...

Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Whenever the sword strikes the third time, it shall do double damage.

 

[OzSpen]

Upgrade your hermeneutical principles and ask "How is this phrase used throughout Scripture?" Contextually
throughout Scripture it does not mean every single person that had ever lived. We can determine the same for the word "all" as it rarely if ever means every single person ever when speaking in soteriological contexts.

From a historical and cultural interpretation it, "the whole world" means all other nations, tongues, tribes &c other than just the Jews.

P4T,

That's your Calvinism speaking.

Evangelical Calvinist and leading Greek exegete and commentator, the late Leon Morris, in his commentary on John 3:16 wrote:

‘God loved "the world"…. The Jew was ready enough to think of God as loving Israel, but no passage appears to be cited in which any Jewish writer maintains that God loved the world. It is a distinctively Christian idea that God’s love is wide enough to embrace all mankind. His love is not confined to any national group or any spiritual elite. It is a love which proceeds from the fact that He is love (I John 4:8, 16). It is His nature to love. He loves men because He is the kind of God He is. John tells us that His love is shown in the gift of His Son’ (Morris 1971:229).
​

That is as clear as crystal for Leon Morris: ‘God’s love is wide enough to embrace all mankind. His love is not confined to any national group or any spiritual elite’. All human beings are included in God’s love articulated in John 3:16.

Another Calvinistic commentator on John's Gospel, Dr D A Carson, came to similar conclusions.

It is you who is out on a Calvinistic limb.

Oz

Works consulted

Morris, L 1971. The gospel according to John. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

 

[OzSpen]

OzSpen,
[What's the point of evangelism if believers are unconditionally elected because of limited atonement and irresistible grace?]
We evangelize because that is the God ordained means to reach all of the elect worldwide.
The fact of unconditional election does not hinder evangelism. it gives it strength.

watch;
acts18;
9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

He did not say all...He had much people. He knew them as sinners he purposed to save.

[If irresistible grace is biblical, no preacher can preach to a group of unsaved people to repent, seek forgiveness and have faith in Jesus alone.]
Sure they can an do. We do not know when the Spirit will regenerate someone.


[It would be fake preaching to call ALL to repent when ALL cannot come, according to Calvinism

Not at all... God has commanded all men to repent and believe the gospel.

AD,

According to your theology, all people cannot repent because all people are not unconditionally elected to believe. So, it's whistling in the wind to 'command all men/people to repent and believe' when ALL are not invited to do that.

Oz

 

[Preacher4Truth]

P4T,

That's your Calvinism speaking.

OK, so you can't answer the texts given, won't study them, won't even address them, and won't receive their correction. That's where we are right off the bat. I've addressed your Scriptures because I have no fear in doing so.

Which paints a picture of why you won't...

Not that I'm surprised, but you completely dodged here.

All you've done is offer an attempted snide insult above, then went over to another text altogether, the good old John 3:16 text. With a little John 4:8. Neither have anything to do with the context of our discussion.

Side question and observation: How is it that those of your ilk can never grasp context, or stay within in it? Scared to face it?

Yep.

But I get it, you're going to avoid those texts like the plague because you cannot refute them. If you did deal with them, you'd have to believe them.

And we both know you're not going to do that.

Nor are you going to address your aversion to giving God all the glory in salvation.

But, that's your "YOU gospel" speaking.

I'm certain we're done here, correct? I mean if you're not going to deal with what I've given you, it simply means you've tucked tail and ran away. Everyone honest can see you are avoiding addressing Bible, and what is given you there, things that refute your teaching and works gospel of what you did to save you.

Now, if you ever man up and actually engage the texts I've given you, and stay on topic, I'll address you again. If not? Well, carry on.

 

[OzSpen]

OK, so you can't answer the texts given, won't study them, won't even address them, and won't receive their correction.

You are lying about me. Please quit it. None of your accusations is true.

 

[Mike Dwight]

23 pages on if Calvin's a cult. Hey I got you some John Calvin quotes, and go, hooray. Go John Knox and do my bidding... oooo you were supposed to speak to Queen Elizabeth I you fool, now she thinks you're a little sexist... evil shall rule the world... They're celebrating Johnn Sebastian Bach, anybody remember, he started on Church music, until he got the fancy melodies to celebrate Himself instead of God, becoming rather evident, when he took the maids into the basement of the Church for some audible playtime!

The torture of a bad conscience is the hell of a living soul.

A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.

There is not one blade of grass, there is no color in this world that is not intended to make us rejoice.

There is no worse screen to block out the Spirit than confidence in our own intelligence.

However many blessings we expect from God, His infinite liberality will always exceed all our wishes and our thoughts.

All the blessings we enjoy are Divine deposits, committed to our trust on this condition, that they should be dispensed for the benefit of our neighbors.

Is it faith to understand nothing, and merely submit your convictions implicitly to the Church?

For there is no one so great or mighty that he can avoid the misery that will rise up against him when he resists and strives against God.

Yet consider now, whether women are not quite past sense and reason, when they want to rule over men.

Knowledge of the sciences is so much smoke apart from the heavenly science of Christ.