The Issue of Calvinism.

[SovereignGrace]

Yeah, not sure how he got free will choice into that text. The fact remains that he speaks of his god free will often, which is self, and rarely of Christ, who instead is God.

So to him it is man, not God. What he did, not what God did. Free will, not biblical election. Salvation by merited act, not by unmerited grace.

That all adds up to a completely false gospel.

Well, Issues quoted In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.[James 1:18] and said, “Sure looks like free will to me.” Sandeman and Finney should be proud.

 

[Mjh29]

Well, Issues quoted In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.[James 1:18] and said, “Sure looks like free will to me.” Sandeman and Finney should be proud.

I agree. GOD has a free will. Yes He does. We do not.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Well, Issues quoted In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.[James 1:18] and said, “Sure looks like free will to me.” Sandeman and Finney should be proud.

He's rewriting the narrative of the word. False gods like to write their own gospel. So far we have witnessed several things he's added to the word of God. Don't like the word or the God of Scripture? Well, just create your own via "free will." He's so powerful, isn't he? I mean, "he does according to his will, and who can stay his hand, or thwart him, or ask what he's doing?" Such a powerful little being in his own mind.

Yep, he's his own god.

 

[justbyfaith]

It seems to me that Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

indicates to all of us that:

--Everyone and anyone is a candidate for salvation
--the condition for being saved is that we call upon the name of the Lord
--if anyone calls upon the name of the Lord, it is absolutely promised that they shall be saved.

How does this agree with, and how does this differ from, Calvinistic thinking?

If or how it differs, ought we not to be honest with the scriptures and hold the scriptures to be above our pet theological understanding?

 

[Kermos]

Which goes back to my question of why you are trying to persuade people to your belief?

Your question is your folly. The Word of God provided repeatedly exposes your folly. Your post is devoid scriptural support for your claim of your ability to choose Lord Jesus. A person can do NOTHING apart from Lord Jesus, not be born again nor believe nor repent nor confess His Name. Period. Nothing apart from Jesus, Nothing (John 15:5). Period. Behold the Word of God:

"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
(Matthew 13:18-23)

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:23-24)

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36, this quote is the Apostle John recording John the Baptist's words)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

 

[CoreIssue]

Interesting.... let's look at the evidence:

1.) Chaotic. Every question you have asked @Kermos [I apologize if you are not a Calvinist, brother] @Jun2u [Again, apologies if you are not Calvinist] @Preacher4Truth , and @SovereignGrace [you two.... I apologize for nothing ]
Every question you have asked us, we have answered in a quite timely manner, with Scripture, addressing each and every question and accusation you throw at us, many times 2 or 3 times. You have yet to answer @Preacher4Truth 's question, use little to no Scripture in your answers, and downright refuse to answer some questions. Not to mention we have caught multiple instances where Arminians are arguing amongst themselves. And they are not denominational differences [mode of baptism, ect.] They are core beliefs, such as eternal security.

2.) Confusing. What are you confused about? We'd be more than happy to help if you would put down the weapon and actually ask questions. Besides that, we have answered many of your questions with Scripture, but you aren't really searching; you ignore and continue to poke and prod, because you really don't want to understand. Confusing? "Doing a work is always a work except when you accept Jesus; that work isn't a work, though it fits into the definition of a work, that work isn't a work." How's that for confusing?

3.) Illogical. 2 words: Secure. Arminian. Does not get any more illogical than that. Oh, I choose Jesus, and I make myself a Christian using my free-will. My reward is the door being slammed on me and my free will being revoked. It would be like if you could only ever buy one car in your entire life, and the moment you choose one, your ability to choose is ripped away and you are chained to that car forever.
Wow.... Arminianism is gloomier than I thought. If Calvinists make God a gambler.... you make Him a sadistic dictator, who lures you in and then slams the door. How illogical is that? The only difference between your view and ours is a total reversal of steps. We believe we are born slaves to sin, and God frees our wills and makes us willing to choose Him. You say that we are born free, and willing to choose Him, but the moment we do, God enslaves our wills and makes us unable to change our minds.

As anyone can see [I'm sure you'll shout this down but.... par for the course.] You saying Calvinism is 'chaotic, confusing and illogical' is not true... and in fact it is quite the opposite. I would love to have a genuine discussion with you over the Scriptures about what we believe, instead of this mud-slinging grudge match you've got us locked into.

Perhaps you could start by finally answering brother @Preacher4Truth 's question about Romans 8?

Not until my question is answered.

Besides I have dealt with Romans 8 many times Calvinists already.

 

[CoreIssue]

Your question is your folly. The Word of God provided repeatedly exposes your folly. Your post is devoid scriptural support for your claim of your ability to choose Lord Jesus. A person can do NOTHING apart from Lord Jesus, not be born again nor believe nor repent nor confess His Name. Period. Nothing apart from Jesus, Nothing (John 15:5). Period. Behold the Word of God:

"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
(Matthew 13:18-23)

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:23-24)

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36, this quote is the Apostle John recording John the Baptist's words)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

Obviously you have a copy and paste library.

 

[Kermos]

Not until my question is answered.
...snip

You can not answer Preacher4Truth because you have no scriptural support for your claim of your ability to choose Lord Jesus. A person can do NOTHING apart from Lord Jesus, not be born again nor believe nor repent nor confess His Name. Period. Nothing apart from Jesus, Nothing (John 15:5). Period. Behold the Word of God:

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

 

[Kermos]

Obviously you have a copy and paste library.

Sometimes I copy and paste out of the Bible, sometimes I type the Scripture. Your post is devoid scriptural support for your claim of your ability to choose Lord Jesus. A person can do NOTHING apart from Lord Jesus, not be born again nor believe nor repent nor confess His Name. Period. Nothing apart from Jesus, Nothing (John 15:5). Period. Behold the Word of God:

"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
(Matthew 13:18-23)

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:23-24)

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36, this quote is the Apostle John recording John the Baptist's words)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)

Cry out to Jesus (Mark 9:23-24). Do not think you chose Jesus, think differently from now on for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (Matthew 4:17).

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Obviously you have a copy and paste library.

Hey, at least when he copies and pastes Scripture, it gives what it actually says without adding to the word. That and his answers are Biblical answers, and you reject them altogether.

Everyone honest knows you have no biblical answers, so as per usual, you respond in the works of the flesh with libel, ridicule, ad hominem.

Shouldn't that tell you something? It's telling me something.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Not until my question is answered.

You've not only been answered, you've been refuted.

Besides I have dealt with Romans 8 many times Calvinists already.

The above hasn't happened, and you've been asked over and over to show us where Romans 8 says what you've stated it says. You won't be corrected by God's word, which is sad. But you'll add to it, which is even more sad.

 

[CoreIssue]

You've no;t only been answered, you've been refuted.



The above hasn't happened, and you've been asked over and over to show us where Romans 8 says what you've stated it says. You won't be corrected by God's word, which is sad. But you'll add to it, which is even more sad.

You preaching your doctrine to me is not an answer.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Why does CoreIssue do that line all day? Firstly, most people would have to tell me they're Calvinist, like any Logical ethos, OK, it exists outside a fanatical propagation. Second, if I wasn't already a valued ,in my interpretation, of how the Calvinist proceeds and characteristic Calvinist efforts, no moral application exists as far as I'm concerned, in religion. You're going to spend around all day the obfuscation , arcane abstractions.

 

[justbyfaith]

It seems to me that Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

indicates to all of us that:

--Everyone and anyone is a candidate for salvation
--the condition for being saved is that we call upon the name of the Lord
--if anyone calls upon the name of the Lord, it is absolutely promised that they shall be saved.

How does this agree with, and how does this differ from, Calvinistic thinking?

If or how it differs, ought we not to be honest with the scriptures and hold the scriptures to be above our pet theological understanding?

In that calling on the name of the Lord is a condition for salvation, this indicates that salvation does not come first; but that rather that calling upon the name of the Lord is the catalyst for being saved.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Here's another thing, the page has been spinning around pre-destination, the Merciful doctrine against the sinner bound by their forgiving Fathers. Martin Luther is a story, though, what an admirable life, correct?

 

[Jun2u]

I would venture to say that the Lord God did not create satan a murderer. Ezekiel 28:15 is traditionally interpreted to be about satan; and would indicate that his beginnings were hopeful. (therefore the Bible, actually, is not silent on the issue).

I’m sorry to disagree. It is so sad when people introduce false interpretations of Scripture as in the market place, although they believe their interpretations to be true. They rely so much on what theologians or their pastors teach, blind leaders leading the blind, without first checking to “see” if these blind leaders are in harmony with the rest in other verses.

Ezekiel Chapter 28 is NOT speaking of Satan but of man!! Man was the only one God put in the Garden.

Consider the following:

1) verse 12 - man was full of wisdom, in that, he was able to name the animals and birds without God’s help. Man is perfect in beauty as he is created in the image of God.
2) verse 13 – man was put in Eden. Precious stones refers to those who have become saved.
3) verse 14 – the word “cherub” or “cherubim” CANNOT refer to angels but is a reference to God Himself. Nothing is above God as illustrated in the Ark of the Covenant.
4) verse 15 – it was man who was created perfect until he sinned, Satan was NEVER created perfect he was always a murderer from the beginning.

As long as there are people who teach wrong doctrines, we will be there to try and correct their false teachings. We do this to obey Jesus’ command to go into all the world and teach all nations.

We are NOT saying we have a perfect understanding of Scripture, rather we have greater understanding of them than the rest of the other denominations. Everybody has feet of clay. This is the reason we need the Holy Spirit to guide us.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

It seems to me that Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

indicates to all of us that:

Didn't I tell you about Romans 3:10-11? Have you forgotten so soon?

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

Didn't I tell you about Romans 3:10-11? Have you forgotten so soon?

To God Be The Glory

Have you forgotten Romans 5:2 so soon? Our access into grace is by faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

I’m sorry to disagree.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree...because the passage in question is clearly about the devil from my perspective.

 

[justbyfaith]

It seems to me that Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

indicates to all of us that:

--Everyone and anyone is a candidate for salvation
--the condition for being saved is that we call upon the name of the Lord
--if anyone calls upon the name of the Lord, it is absolutely promised that they shall be saved.

How does this agree with, and how does this differ from, Calvinistic thinking?

If or how it differs, ought we not to be honest with the scriptures and hold the scriptures to be above our pet theological understanding?