The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

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Brakelite

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You might be shocked if you found out what the Cathars actually believed. They didn't think people should have children. Marriage was forbidden then. Catholics sometimes said (who knows if it's true) that the men had gay sex with each other.

They also didn't believe in the resurrection.
These supposed beliefs... Shouldn't have children... Marriage forbidden... Gay... According to who? In any way the first casualty is truth... The people aren't the only casualties, also their culture, their language, their writings. Destroy a cultures written record and you can make up anything to justify genocide. Do those beliefs you suggested actually make any sense? To me they sound like propaganda dished out to a gullible and superstitious public. Make the public fear someone and then destroy them as a favor.
There entire Nations were wiped off the map by armies in collaboration with the papacy because they were Arian. Yet today they only example we have of Arius's teachings could very well be fraudulent... Particularly in light of writings we have of a Christian missionary to the Goths (Wulfilas) which contradict what is commonly accepted as Arian beliefs. Such tactics are still used today. Can we trust what purportedly was a fair estimation of a culture 1500 years ago by the conquering power who must surely want to be seen in as best light as possible in order to justify it's actions?
 

Reggie Belafonte

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History is supposed to teach us lessons, but never does. Hence the saying "History repeats itself". If the Jesuits have been involved in nefarious plots in the past, what makes you think that they are still not doing the same thing?

Take Pope Francis who is a Jesuit. A fellow Jesuit quipped "He may act like a Franciscan, but he thinks like a Jesuit". Even many Catholic clergy were shocked that a Jesuit became a pope.If you have followed his career you will note that:

1. HE HAS DONE HIS UTMOST to undermine nationalism and promote Globalism and the New World Order through migrant invasion and other insidious means.

2. He has done his utmost to undermine Western nations by constantly telling the world that illegal migrants should simply flood the West. And the Catholic Church has a hand in maintaining and encouraging illegals in the USA -- IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. Which means that it has a hand in undermining proper democratic elections while encouraging voter fraud.

3. He has become a leading champion of the Climate Change Hoax.

4. He has undermined the teachings of the Catholic Church, and there are many Catholics who see him as a heretic."Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger [who later became a pope] "investigated, sanctioned and sometimes silenced Jesuit theologians who were considered too eager to marry the Gospel to suspect social movements" (National Catholic Reporter)

5. He always speaks out of both sides of his mouth, and his public statements have to be constantly clarified and defended.

6. He claims that Muslims are his brothers, and says not a word about Radical Muslim terrorism.

7. He has attacked Donald Trump and said that Trump is not a Christian, because Trump opposes Globalism.

8. He has attempted to pacify the Chinese Communist thugs at the expense of Chinese Catholics.

9. He believes in Communistic Liberation Theology:"In the 1960s, the Jesuits collectively opted for a decisive shift to emphasizing working on behalf of the poor and for social justice. In the developing world, that put Jesuits on the front lines of popular movements for the poor, such as liberation theology, and led to martyrdom at times" (National Catholic Reporter).

10. He believes in undermining Catholic theology while promoting promoting Maryolatry.
I agree all that is true.
Pope Francis is a Satanist.
Never trust a Jesuit ! they are in with the Freemasons and into worldly pursuits. such people are never born again Christians because they are carnal in their objectives, they are coming from a Mans works point of view. such has nothing to do with Jesus Christ at all.

Their works are religious but as are the Jews, fact is that all such religion is only works of Man, this type of works is a curse on all, but carnal man falls for all such dribbling nonsense and carry's this curse about Idolising mans works, creating Political Correctness gods that is hugely idolise by the majority, that for one has gone unchecked and let fester by the churches and even promoted within the churches with glee and such adoration, that I have witnessed in fact, that has taken prominence over Christ Jesus by far, within the churches. theirs your works ? your works ! what a blight ! it's a curse ! nothing good will come from such people, because they are Slaves to Sin and you can see it in their works, a evil and degenerate generation, demanding that their will be done. not Gods will ! for they know not such at all. they will reap what they have sown !
We have the history of Political Correctness how it was the key that created the Communist and the Nazis power over the people, without that key to Political Correctness the likes of any Communist or Nazi ever getting power over the people could never of ever taken place.

The New World Order is not Christian at all, this NWO about enslavement totally dominating over the whole world, that's always been a Communist goal. Equality ! Cattle have equality ?
And Jesus said I have come to bring you Equality o_O:rolleyes::eek: no he did not say any such thing at all. that's what the Devil was peddling to Jesus, in fact that was the deal ! if Jesus was to take part in the Devils plan and make Mans works there god, but Jesus rejected such a deal, Jesus could of become the Leader of the Jews and lead them in a carnal struggle. nothing more than a struggle of cursed idiots ! where their works are invalid to God. such works are invalid and as crazy as a dog chasing it's tail in the least or to a man with rabies.
 
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BreadOfLife

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I always find it Funny, how one one hand Catholics Boast of being the oldest Christian Church...and on the other hand when someone brings up Undesirable Things that have occurred Within Leadership through centuries of the Catholic Church...:
The response by a Catholic is Always:
"That's rubbish...OR...you are a hater".

You should take a step into Reality...the Catholic Leadership is not immune to Flaws.

Discussion of Catholic Flawed Leadership does not MAKE a person a hater!
This claim is absolute unsubstantiated manure.

I and others here have ALWAYS accepted the fact that we have had some unsavory characters in our Church's history. Christ WARNED that this would happen (Matt. 7:15-20). It happened among His OWN Apostles.

What we object to is the false idea that because there have been some bad guys in the Church - that the entire Catholic Church as a whole is a "false" Church. This is utter nonsense.
LIES are what make people like YOU a hater - not disagreement.

I have YET to see ANY Protestant sect that is comprised of sinless people.
When you can show me that - THEN we'll talk about the "bad" people within the Catholic Church . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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These supposed beliefs... Shouldn't have children... Marriage forbidden... Gay... According to who? In any way the first casualty is truth... The people aren't the only casualties, also their culture, their language, their writings. Destroy a cultures written record and you can make up anything to justify genocide. Do those beliefs you suggested actually make any sense? To me they sound like propaganda dished out to a gullible and superstitious public. Make the public fear someone and then destroy them as a favor.
There entire Nations were wiped off the map by armies in collaboration with the papacy because they were Arian. Yet today they only example we have of Arius's teachings could very well be fraudulent... Particularly in light of writings we have of a Christian missionary to the Goths (Wulfilas) which contradict what is commonly accepted as Arian beliefs. Such tactics are still used today. Can we trust what purportedly was a fair estimation of a culture 1500 years ago by the conquering power who must surely want to be seen in as best light as possible in order to justify it's actions?
And it's THIS type of dishonest post that causes a Catholic to accuse another of being "anti-Catholic".

Your claims about Arianism are complete anti-historical nonsense. There were TWO Church Councils in the 4th century (Nicaea, 325 AD & Constantinople, 381 AD) that dealt with Arius's Heresy and the damage it caused in the Chrch - and it was at these 2 Councils that we got the official definition of the Trinity as a result.

As for your remarks about a celibate priesthood - you've been shown before that this is a BIBLICAL teaching.
Jesus recommended it (Matt. 19:10-12) as a more excellent way to serve the Lord - as did Paul (1 Cor. 7:8-9, 27-34).

NOT sure what you mean by the "Gay" part - but homosexual behavior is strictly forbidden in the Catholic Church.
 
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Taken

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I and others here have ALWAYS accepted the fact that we have had some unsavory characters in our Church's history. Christ WARNED that this would happen (Matt. 7:15-20). It happened among His OWN Apostles.

So?
The POINT was Catholics calling people "haters" for discussing your unsavory Catholic characters!


What we object to is the false idea that because there have been some bad guys in the Church - that the entire Catholic Church as a whole is a "false" Church. This is utter nonsense.

So?
No one was saying that!

Strawman :D
 

BreadOfLife

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So?
The POINT was Catholics calling people "haters" for discussing your unsavory Catholic characters!

So?
No one was saying that!

Strawman :D
WRONG.

If there is a point to be made - then so be it.
However - if you're bringing it up just to sling mud, the it IS done for hate and nothing else.

I could sit here ALL day and go on about the evils of what Protestant leaders have done over the centuries - but there is NO point in it other than to smear Protestantism.

PS - I honestly think you don't even know what a "strawman" is . . .
 

Taken

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And it's THIS type of dishonest post that causes a Catholic to accuse another of being "anti-Catholic".

Get off your fantasy high horse.
If someone is anti-Catholic or hates you...
So What? They are quite capable of Speaking for themselves.
I don't see ONE person appointing YOU their spokesman!
 

Taken

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WRONG.

If there is a point to be made - then so be it.

That's correct.

However - if you're bringing it up just to sling mud, the it IS done for hate and nothing else.

So bow out since you don't comprehend the Point.

I could sit here ALL day and go on about the evils of what Protestant leaders have done over the centuries -

So? Who cares what you think about Protestants?

but there is NO point in it other than to smear Protestantism.

Thanks for sharing "YOUR INTENDED PURPOSE," when you speak against Protestants.

Some people like to discuss DOCTRINES of different religions to see if there is agreement or disagreement and why.

But you are clear, you like to talk about Protestants just to smear their beliefs.

Ugh!
 

BreadOfLife

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That's correct.
So bow out since you don't comprehend the Point.
So? Who cares what you think about Protestants?
Thanks for sharing "YOUR INTENDED PURPOSE," when you speak against Protestants.
Some people like to discuss DOCTRINES of different religions to see if there is agreement or disagreement and why.
But you are clear, you like to talk about Protestants just to smear their beliefs.
Ugh!
SO angry . . .

First of all - I was simply responding to the charge that we Catholics accuse you anti-Catholics of being "heters" when you simply point out historical facts. This is nonsense. If there is a point to be made in a debate - then there is a place for that.

However - people like YOU routinely post attacks JUST to attack and nothing else.
Now - either that is hate - or you're just a psychopath who can't control himself. Take your pick . . .
Get off your fantasy high horse.
If someone is anti-Catholic or hates you...
So What? They are quite capable of Speaking for themselves.
I don't see ONE person appointing YOU their spokesman!
And this angry rant speaks for itself.
Thanks!
 
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quietthinker

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This claim is absolute unsubstantiated manure.

I and others here have ALWAYS accepted the fact that we have had some unsavory characters in our Church's history. Christ WARNED that this would happen (Matt. 7:15-20). It happened among His OWN Apostles.

What we object to is the false idea that because there have been some bad guys in the Church - that the entire Catholic Church as a whole is a "false" Church. This is utter nonsense.
LIES are what make people like YOU a hater - not disagreement.

I have YET to see ANY Protestant sect that is comprised of sinless people.
When you can show me that - THEN we'll talk about the "bad" people within the Catholic Church . . .
ahhhh yes, the bad apples huh! ....blame the bad apples! religiously, politically....yeah, they all do it.....in fact they do it so often they put their credibility at stake.....its the standard line of any bad apple!
 
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Enoch111

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The POINT was Catholics calling people "haters" for discussing your unsavory Catholic characters!
That is called "deflection". Catholics do not wish to honestly repudiate all the lies and evil perpetrated by their clergy and the Jesuits. Because that would lead to the question of "What am doing within this evil religious system?"
 
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Brakelite

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As for your remarks about a celibate priesthood - you've been shown before that this is a BIBLICAL teaching.
Jesus recommended it (Matt. 19:10-12) as a more excellent way to serve the Lord - as did Paul (1 Cor. 7:8-9, 27-34)
The matter of celibacy and other so called heresies among the Cathars so terrible, it resulted in the Albigensian Crusades to root out these evil doers. Not satisfied to simply teach the gospel and correct those errors, the church saw fit to murder 1000s of Christians in southern France because they refused to surrender to papal authority. But I guess this was just one of those cases where a bad egg got things a little wrong.
 

quietthinker

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The matter of celibacy and other so called heresies among the Cathars so terrible, it resulted in the Albigensian Crusades to root out these evil doers. Not satisfied to simply teach the gospel and correct those errors, the church saw fit to murder 1000s of Christians in southern France because they refused to surrender to papal authority. But I guess this was just one of those cases where a bad egg got things a little wrong.
ahhhh, yesss....the bad apple, I mean the bad egg.......yeah, those bad eggs....from what I've read re this history they musta been quiet a few of them cuz they rolled all around Europe. The Dutch, the Scottish, punished mercilessly because they held their hope in Jesus.
 

BreadOfLife

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ahhhh yes, the bad apples huh! ....blame the bad apples! religiously, politically....yeah, they all do it.....in fact they do it so often they put their credibility at stake.....its the standard line of any bad apple!
Yup - and until YOU can prove that your sect is completely FREE of sinners - you have zero room to speak . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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The matter of celibacy and other so called heresies among the Cathars so terrible, it resulted in the Albigensian Crusades to root out these evil doers. Not satisfied to simply teach the gospel and correct those errors, the church saw fit to murder 1000s of Christians in southern France because they refused to surrender to papal authority. But I guess this was just one of those cases where a bad egg got things a little wrong.
It ALWAYS cracks me up when an uneducated person blindly defends the heresies of the Albigensians and Cathars as ""genuinely Christian".
As I already educated your fellow anti-Catholic, @Enoch111 in post #237 - the Cathars had multiple sects and had in common a teaching that the world was created by an evil god. This meant that ALL matter was evil. They believed that we should only worship the “good” God instead.

The Albigensians were formed from one of the largest Cathar sects. They believed that the body was evil and was created by an evil god – while the spirit alone was created by God, which was good. Child-bearing was considered to be one of the greatest evils a person could do because “imprisoned” another spirit in flesh. That’s why they forbade marriage, which was ALSO considered “evil” - but fornication was NOT.

Yet, the ignorant defend all this as genuine Christianity.
Imagine that . . .
 
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Illuminator

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The matter of celibacy and other so called heresies among the Cathars so terrible, it resulted in the Albigensian Crusades to root out these evil doers. Not satisfied to simply teach the gospel and correct those errors, the church saw fit to murder 1000s of Christians in southern France because they refused to surrender to papal authority. But I guess this was just one of those cases where a bad egg got things a little wrong.
The Cathars/Albigensians were an evil cult that denied the Incarnation, they believed in an evil god who created flesh and a good god who created heaven. They believed that since the flesh is evil, Jesus was not human. Marriage was frowned on. One could earn salvation by suicide, a popular method was by self-starvation. They were worse than the Amalkites because they threatened to wipe out the entire human race if allowed to spread, which they were doing. Made-in-America cults, Dave Hunt, Landmark Baptists and many evangelical Protestants claim this evil cult were true bible believing Christians. There was nothing Christian about them.

The political and cultural factors of the Albigensian Crusade are long and complicated ; it would take several pages of reading to understand. "because they refused to surrender to papal authority" is a false childish oversimplification. An honest (and long) study of this crusade would reveal that this crusade was, in the end, justified. "murder 1000s of Christians in southern France" is another anti-Catholic myth. No reputable historian or source is ever given.

As a side note, Scripture records the long-lasting feud between the Amalekites and the Israelites and God’s direction to wipe the Amalekites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17). Why God would call His people to exterminate an entire tribe is explained here.​
 
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Brakelite

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It ALWAYS cracks me up when an uneducated person blindly defends the heresies of the Albigensians and Cathars as ""genuinely Christian".
Now that is an interesting statement. I think it's worth dissecting a little.
Your amusement at the situation aside, the inference that your opinion ought to be acknowledged on the grounds of a superior education is noted.
That the beliefs of the Cathars and Albigenses were heresy because your opinion is educated... Noted. However, I must also note that said education came from the victors, the Catholic Church itself, so cannot in all fairness to those thousands of victims ( the entire city of Toulouse decimated), be considered an unbiased or impartial witness. Do you have any evidence from reliable independent sources at to the beliefs and practices if those people? It must also be noted that if marriage and the birth of children was so frowned upon, why bother killing them? One generation and they would self immolate would they not? Anyway, back to your post... To your inference that there are some who think those purported heresies are in actual fact, Christian beliefs. Please cite just one example of a person claiming that pregnancy is a great evil and a Christian concept.
 
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