The Jewish People are Jehovah’s Witnesses

[John839]

what right have any Christians to annul this promise? These blessings were never forfeited.

You obviously have a wrong idea what fulfillment theology ("replacement theology") is. The promises have not been annulled, they have been fulfilled in Christianity. They have become reality.

The promised land: Jesus
Honey and milk: The Word
Descendants like the stars and the sand: the Christians
The Temple: The Body of Christ
etc.

do not see any special future for the Jews.

The Jews will have a special future. According to the Bible, the Antichrist will send them all to hell. There they will be for eternity.

 

[Wrangler]

The WHY is the point Wrangler.

You are diverting.

I am not even sure why this is a sticking point for you….?

Because you are not speaking the truth is why this is a sticking point for me. Fact is, God sanctioned offensive war. WHY doesn’t change the WHAT.

 

[RR144]

You obviously have a wrong idea what fulfillment theology ("replacement theology") is. The promises have not been annulled, they have been fulfilled in Christianity.

Hmmm ... that seems like an alteration of God's promise to the Jews.

"My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." Psa. 89:34​

The Jews will have a special future. According to the Bible, the Antichrist will send them all to hell. There they will be for eternity.

You'll have to show me those verses.

 

[face2face]

You are diverting.

Because you are not speaking the truth is why this is a sticking point for me. Fact is, God sanctioned offensive war. WHY doesn’t change the WHAT.

Wrangler, why is that an issue for you?

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler

Take Deut 7:2

2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

The first point to make of this is its a Holy War, which is being faught.

Its a war to the death, because of the moral coruption which is in the land.

Even before this time to Abraham, God had given notice that He would initiate such a war when "the iniquity (sin) of the Amorites is come to its full" (Gen 15:16). Now that time had come, and the nations were so polluted and polluting that the land itself was accounted as defiled (Lev 18:24-25).

Do you have issue with God's judgements on this?

F2@

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are diverting.

Because you are not speaking the truth is why this is a sticking point for me. Fact is, God sanctioned offensive war. WHY doesn’t change the WHAT.

OK....I am speaking the truth as I understand it, because having God’s sanction justified the offensive....they were acting as his executioners, showing those inhabitants that their conduct was not acceptable....Israel were told to remove the wicked inhabitants of a land that God had promised to Israel, going all the way back to Abraham.

Why is it so important that God sanctioned offensive warfare that one time? When did he do so again? The Israelites were not land grabbers. God took their land from them and gave it to their enemies because of their disobedience, and exiled them in Babylon for 70 years. Only a remnant returned.

I still don’t understand your knee jerk reaction to something so relatively unimportant in the big scheme of things. It happened almost 1500 years before Jesus was born.

In the Christian Era there is NO sanction for war....period. We are to “love our enemies and pray for them”. (Matt 5:43-44)

 

[Wrangler]

because having God’s sanction justified the offensive

Thank you. Thank you for admitting Israel initiated an offensive war in the Conquest of Canaan.

Looking at Israel’s history....they did not go “wiping out the nations around” them unless they themselves were threatened. Their actions were defensive, not offensive.

It is my understanding that JW's are somewhat pacifists. Although I don't understand the full position JW take on the subject of war, couching offensive action as defensive is propaganda invoked almost in every instance.

Although I am most familiar with American mischievousness, Octavian's propaganda to start the civil war ending the Roman Republic included depicted the leader of half the republic as coming under undue influence to a foreign power (Egypt) and was unwittingly acting against Rome. So, he was only "defending" Roman culture and the Roman people.

Take WWII. I was in a Paris museum and saw Japanese posters depicting FDR as a vampire for his many actions against Japan, including oil embargo and freezing assets before Pearl Harbor. Then there is a movie staring John Wayne called the Flying Tigers that promoted American military masquerading as "mercenaries" in China assisting them in their war against Japan. FDR calling Pearl Harbor an "unprovoked" attack is absurd. America did everything they could to provoke Japan.

Another example is the War of Northern Aggression in the US. Lincoln promoted it as "they shot first" but downplayed American troops invading a sovereign State at Fort Sumter.

Terrorists being decried as lawless is funny in the face of their reacting to the lawlessness of American imperialism, surreptitiously replacing rightful rulers of foreign countries and installing a puppet government. United States involvement in regime change. I lived through the humiliating Iranian hostage crisis in the 1970's after students responded to the puppet Shah of Iran acted against his own people at the behest of American influence.

In other cases, responding to an home invader in your home deems you the offender in our fallen world.

Getting back to the Jews, Hitler leveraged anti-Semitism to couch the holocaust in defensive terms. And on and on it goes.

 

[RR144]

Fact is, God sanctioned offensive war. WHY doesn’t change the WHAT.

And who are you to question God?

 

[Wrangler]

And who are you to question God?

LOL. Identifying God’s attributes - either way - is not ‘questioning.’ And what’s wrong with questioning?

It is not God who fears questions but dogmatists.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank you. Thank you for admitting Israel initiated an offensive war in the Conquest of Canaan.

I don’t know that I ever denied it. But I’m still wondering why it is important to you that God sanctioned the eviction of a wicked people out of a specific land that he had, hundreds of years before, promised to give to them?

It is my understanding that JW's are somewhat pacifists. Although I don't understand the full position JW take on the subject of war, couching offensive action as defensive is propaganda invoked almost in every instance

JW’s imitate Jesus in his position on political matters.....he simply never involved himself in matters of the world because of who is running this show. (1 John 5:19) The ‘showdown’ with this world’s ruler was yet future and he had to allow “the appointed times of the nations” (the “gentile times”) to run their full course. Luke mentions this time period in Luke 21:24 when Jesus spoke of the dual prophesy on the end of the Jewish system, and the corresponding end of this present world system....the time of his return.

Daniel was the one who wrote about the succession of world powers who would dominate His people up until “the time of the end”. Starting with Babylon, he spoke of successors who would conquer other world powers affecting God’s people....like Medo-Persia who overthrew mighty unconquerable Babylon in one night, just as Daniel had prophesied. Medo-Persia was conquered by Alexander the Great ushering in the Greek Empire. Greece was overthrown by Rome (ruling when Jesus walked the earth) and Rome fell due to its own decadence. But out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who, in these last days gave birth to the USA, who are struggling at present to maintain their status as the currently dominant world power.
It was in the days of those last “kings” that God would bring in the rulership of his kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)

The Roman oppression of God’s people in their own land was nothing new. After the exile to Babylon, the remnant of Jews who returned, never again really prospered in their homeland. They were always under threat from surrounding nations because their land was very desirable and under the jurisdiction of foreign powers.

So understanding the history allows us to see where we are in the stream of time.
Propaganda has always been used to promote war. The oldest trick in satan’s book is to perpetrate an atrocity on your own people and blame your enemy, thereby whipping up excuses that will be fully supported by the masses for a manufactured war. People will line up to give that enemy his comeuppance. They call it patriotism. It’s manipulation at its basest level. “Perception management” cleverly disguised as “information” delivered through managed “news” sources. People believe them because they want to.

Most people are ignorant of the fact that satan uses them as puppets...even world leaders, drunk with power will do his bidding out of ego. He can play fallen mankind like a fiddle. We all know how power corrupts, because it was never given to us in the first place. God was to be our rightful Sovereign...not any flawed human or well armed nation. (My weapons are better then your weapons)

Sometimes the basis for fomenting a war, was to sell armaments to the participants......loads of financial incentives to do that. Propaganda works on those who don’t think past the “news” or understand who is running this miserable system in all its aspects.....the devil’s own trinity.....corrupt politics, greedy commercialism and false religion.....the latter married to the other two....the harlot of Revelation 17:1-2 and 18:4-5....the one we are told to “get out of”, otherwise we will suffer the same fate as she will.

It’s a big subject, but time is running out for those who cannot see past the end of their noses. We are staring down the barrel of the greatest tribulation in this world’s history.....who will survive it? Only those who have God on their side.....and Jesus said they will be ”few” compared to the “many” who are deceived into thinking he is just because they claim Jesus as their “Lord”. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Davy]

Care to eloborate?

Yes, because the Godhead doesn't exist.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only ones who believe that Jesus is Michael and archangel. The following groups and individuals also believe this teaching.

1. Seventh-day Adventist
2. Bible Students

Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892), a Baptist minister wrote in his "Morning and Evening" devotional for
(morning October 3) regarding angels, based on Hebrews 1:14, and speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ:


From a Spurgeon sermon ‘The Angelic Life’ (22 November 1868) comes this partial quote:



Isaac Watts, (1674-1748) an English Congregationalist wrote: in "The Glory of Christ as God-Man" on page 223



John Gill, a Baptist pastor (circa 1750) wrote this about Michael the Archangel based on Jude 1:9:




Actually, Russell started the Bible Students Association. After his death there was a huge split in the movement. 15 years later in 1931, the Society, which deviated from much of his beliefs and teachings created the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This idea has been floating around for over 100 years, since I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I'll let them respond. I can however speak for Russell, or shall I let Russell speak for himself. Did Russell actually say his writings supplant the Bible?

The article in question is found in September 15, 1910 issue of the Watch Tower, Page 297. Where he states the following:





Let me ask you a sincere question, and as a professing Christian, I'll assume you'll give a sincere answer. EVERYTHING you know about the Bible and I mean EVERYTHING, did you learn yourself? Did you lock yourself in your study pray for Holy Spirit and with just your Bible in hand, learn it all? Or did you have help? Did you use a concordance, a Bible dictionary, Interlinear, your minister, or some Bible commentary in helping you understand what you were reading?

You see, we all need help, even the Ethiopian Eunuch needed help, when Philip asked “Do you understand what you are reading?” he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” (Acts 8:26-40)

I I believe Ellen White had the Truth, I would study here writings, or if the Jehovah's Witnesses were teaching Truth, I would likewise study their publications. I'm one of those students who has a vast spiritual library. From various denominations. I, like the Bereans of old, "make sure of all things". Do I know it all? Of course not, but what I do know, I studied it out. What I'm not sure of, I love to discuss with others.

And there it is above, documented proof that some would rather follow men instead of God's Word as written.

1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
KJV

That Scripture, as written, means THERE IS A GODHEAD, and Jesus of Nazareth is GOD manifest in the flesh, and thus part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Many of those behind cult organizations like the Jehovah's Witness and Seventh Day Adventists are Jews. And many Jews have a difficult time believing that Jesus of Nazareth, a mere human they think, could ever be GOD come in the flesh, the same problem the scribes and Pharisees of the Jews in the time of Jesus' 1st coming had.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And there it is above, documented proof that some would rather follow men instead of God's Word as written.

You at it again? You show no understanding of scripture beyond your own programming. It is you who are following men instead of God’s word as written.

1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
KJV

Good ‘ol KJV again….
The word ”God” does not appear in that verse. If you read it carefully you will see that Paul is speaking about “the mystery of godliness” and he goes on to say….

”He who G3739 was revealed G5319 in the flesh, G4561
Was vindicated G1344 [fn]in the Spirit, G4151
Seen G3708 by angels, G32
Proclaimed G2784 among G1722 the nations, G1484
Believed G4100 on in the world, G2889
Taken G353 up in glory. G1391

So yes, this is referring to Jesus…but NOT to God.

The KJV translates Strong's G3739 in the following manner: which (418x), whom (270x), that (139x), who (87x), whose (52x), what (40x), that which (20x), whereof (17x), miscellaneous (346x).
Outline of Biblical Usage

1. who, which, what, that”.

Strongs Concordance

“God“ was inserted there by trinitarians translators to support a doctrine that the Bible does not teach.

That Scripture, as written, means THERE IS A GODHEAD, and Jesus of Nazareth is GOD manifest in the flesh, and thus part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

That scripture as written there is a false rendering. There is no “godhead”….Roman Catholicism invented a new Jesus….one that the world now accepts as someone Jesus never was.

Many of those behind cult organizations like the Jehovah's Witness and Seventh Day Adventists are Jews. And many Jews have a difficult time believing that Jesus of Nazareth, a mere human they think, could ever be GOD come in the flesh, the same problem the scribes and Pharisees of the Jews in the time of Jesus' 1st coming had.

It’s a shame that you don’t see where you yourself stand in making statements like that. (1 Cor 10:12)

You will never be able to say “nobody told me”.

 

[RR144]

And there it is above, documented proof that some would rather follow men instead of God's Word as written.

1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
KJV

That Scripture, as written, means THERE IS A GODHEAD, and Jesus of Nazareth is GOD manifest in the flesh, and thus part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

That's a bad translation:

1 Timothy 3:16 (NASB) By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory. (NABS)​

Many of those behind cult organizations like the Jehovah's Witness and Seventh Day Adventists are Jews. And many Jews have a difficult time believing that Jesus of Nazareth, a mere human they think, could ever be GOD come in the flesh, the same problem the scribes and Pharisees of the Jews in the time of Jesus' 1st coming had.

Bwawawawawawawawawa!!!!!