So is losing the key of David equivalent in meaning to having their lampstand removed?
The Key of David.
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Since the key of David belongs to Christ, the issue of "losing it" is a non-issue. It has nothing to do with the lampstand (Christian testimony of each local church).
This subject is concealed to most and is a hard nut to crack. I have a version that IMO makes some sense, although it can be improved.
I still have a difficulty that believers have the key or copies of the key of David. Jesus is the true key opener or closer of the entrance to our hearts. If assisting in the work of Jesus to bring others to the Kingdom then we are using a different type of key as in the preaching of the gospel etc.
The key of David is derived from the physical conquest, by David, of Zion. The conquest of physical Zion was accomplished by having the right key to open the gate from the inside of the city walls, for his men to conquer it. He brought in the men of God and depleted the evil ones, to inhabit it, desired ultimately by God.
For today, Jesus now has the control and authority from God to possess the key of David. Jesus has the key to unlock or keep locked the hearts (the inner person - hearts) of mankind - to stay dead in their sins. Jesus can unlock our natural hearts, so it can be flooded with his spirit and character, to become ‘in him’ as believer; to be part of the Kingdom. He can also keep locked out natural heart from those that his Father wants to remain locked. The Father’ desire is the ‘key.’ Jesus is the worker and conqueror as was David to bring us in his spirit and directly in righteousness with and to God, in his presence and peace.
Believers today, as with the apostles also act as one with Jesus to open and keep closed the hearts of men. If the Father desires a person to be converted into the Kingdom, then we can become catalysts, in the service of Jesus, to assist in Jesus opening or keeping locked these hearts for God our Father. The disciples and the apostles were told they had the power to forgive sin - save or keep folks in sin by preaching the gospel to some and not others. And yes, Matt 16:19 also applies here.
I must emphasis two things:
1. That Jesus is the only one that retains control of the key of David.
2. We cannot act on our own, or decide when we feel like to assist Jesus and the Father for the purpose of the Kingdom. Jesus has this authority and ownership of the key of David.
Well this is my rendition…this is a tough subject indeed.
Blessings,
APAK
I still have a difficulty that believers have the key or copies of the key of David. Jesus is the true key opener or closer of the entrance to our hearts. If assisting in the work of Jesus to bring others to the Kingdom then we are using a different type of key as in the preaching of the gospel etc.
The key of David is derived from the physical conquest, by David, of Zion. The conquest of physical Zion was accomplished by having the right key to open the gate from the inside of the city walls, for his men to conquer it. He brought in the men of God and depleted the evil ones, to inhabit it, desired ultimately by God.
For today, Jesus now has the control and authority from God to possess the key of David. Jesus has the key to unlock or keep locked the hearts (the inner person - hearts) of mankind - to stay dead in their sins. Jesus can unlock our natural hearts, so it can be flooded with his spirit and character, to become ‘in him’ as believer; to be part of the Kingdom. He can also keep locked out natural heart from those that his Father wants to remain locked. The Father’ desire is the ‘key.’ Jesus is the worker and conqueror as was David to bring us in his spirit and directly in righteousness with and to God, in his presence and peace.
Believers today, as with the apostles also act as one with Jesus to open and keep closed the hearts of men. If the Father desires a person to be converted into the Kingdom, then we can become catalysts, in the service of Jesus, to assist in Jesus opening or keeping locked these hearts for God our Father. The disciples and the apostles were told they had the power to forgive sin - save or keep folks in sin by preaching the gospel to some and not others. And yes, Matt 16:19 also applies here.
I must emphasis two things:
1. That Jesus is the only one that retains control of the key of David.
2. We cannot act on our own, or decide when we feel like to assist Jesus and the Father for the purpose of the Kingdom. Jesus has this authority and ownership of the key of David.
Well this is my rendition…this is a tough subject indeed.
Blessings,
APAK
Not!
Lampstands are where the presence of Christ working in this type of believer as individuals or as a group. Removing a candlestick means that Jesus has determined not to work through these believers anymore. They however still remain believers.
Bless you,
APAK
Helen
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I thought the lamp in the tabernacle represented the light of the Holy Spirit...so removing the lamp stand removes revelation light.
David for sure had LIGHT... in the Psalms we can see that he could see from the OT into the NT..
He understood and spoke of it.
“ He was a man after God’s own heart ...”. His feet were in the old, but his heart was in the New .
Two of the keys...vision and heart...
David for sure had LIGHT... in the Psalms we can see that he could see from the OT into the NT..
He understood and spoke of it.
“ He was a man after God’s own heart ...”. His feet were in the old, but his heart was in the New .
Two of the keys...vision and heart...
We must be accepted into the beloved. So we must be vetted by the Lord before being granted access into the kingdom. There are lessons to be learned if our stay in the kingdom dimension is to be more than just a brief visit.
Helen
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Oh good...something we disagree on.
Not sure what you comment has to do with what I said about David or the lamp stand.
I’ve seen you say your quoted before ....it must be a favourite of yours.
In my bible Says in Rom 5
6 “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Once we turn , look and live...we ARE accepted in the beloved.
bbyrd009
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can't think of a better way to put it myselfOK I get what you're saying. You aren't into "in the twinkling of an eye"....
Oh good...something we disagree on.
Not sure what you comment has to do with what I said about David or the lamp stand.
I’ve seen you say your quoted before ....it must be a favourite of yours.
In my bible Says in Rom 5
6 “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Once we turn , look and live...we ARE accepted in the beloved.
I make the biblical distinction between "saved".....and being a saint.
Being a saint takes 2 steps.
In the kingdom of God there are different levels...it's not like this life. There is the bride and there are the guests. There is the New Jerusalem...and there are the saved nations.
Jesus chooses His Bride from among the saved....just like God chose a rib from the body of Adam. Likewise Jesus selects His own disciples...who also come out of His body. Just as Adam was asleep....so also they who are dead in Christ are also made alive in Christ...and walk in His life. These are the saints.
Many are called....but few chosen.
Helen
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Many I am understanding you a bit more...
I guess it comes down to biblical terminology .
In my book the Bride is chosen out of the overcoming sons of Revelation 3.
There was "all of Israel" . Then there was the priest who served in the outer court..then we have Moses and Arron who trotted in and out of the Holiest of all.
God shows very clear patterns showing that there are different ministeries and ranks in His kingdom..
This is good. I hope we can come to an understanding then. So then God's mercy is on a far greater amount of people than He places His glory on.
The saints will rule over the saved nations in the next age.
Really, can you show scripturally, how all of the saints will be able to rule over all of the saved nations if all of the saved nations are the "Saints."
It is beginning to sound a little like, "Animal Farm," from what is being "preached."
The saints live in the New Jerusalem....not in the nations. Read the last few chapters of Revelation.....like it's the first time.
The saints live in the New Jerusalem....not in the nations. Read the last few chapters of Revelation.....like it's the first time.
I just checked to see if I had previously missed your claim in the last two chapters of the Book of Revelation,
and saw that there was no mention of the Saints ruling over the nations.
Then I went back to the third last chapter of the Book of Revelation and there is a mention of the Saints who have lost their heads who will reign as priests with Christ for 1,000 years, but this is not for all of the Millennium Age which is the next age as I understand it. So again, I could not find any reference to the "Saints ruling over the nations in the next age."
Perhaps if you took the time to actually provide the scriptural references on which you have based your claim, then it would be much easier for us to discuss.
The burden of proof is on you to provide the scriptural references, unless of course you are relying on Luke 19 to justify your claim?
So once again, I am asking you to provide your scriptural justification for your claim above.
There are many inferences throughout the bible that Jerusalem will rule over all. The new Jerusalem is where God will live with His people.
Do you follow so far...?
Those that are written in the Lamb's book of life are the Bride who abide with Jesus in the city
The saints are glorified together with Jesus.
But there are also the nations of them which are saved...who get their LIGHT from God. They are not saints since they were not written in the lamb's book of life...but the book of life. There are 3 books to be opened to judge all men.
Nobody understands it seems or teaches this...but God shows us if we ask.
The saints don't live in the nations. The righteous do.
One of the references is the parable of the talents...where a godly character is rewarded with a rule over more cities.
"Cities" plural. So that can't be Jerusalem. Those cities are in the nations. The saints rule WITH Christ over the nations....for ever.
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