The Lake of Fire

[veteran]

You just contradicted yourself. How can the 'smoke' of their torment rise forever and forever if they are gone forever?

It's because Rev.14 is giving an 'expression' for the wicked having perished, gone.

Ps 37:9-11
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
(KJV)

Since that is speaking of the time when the meek shall inherit the earth, along with that abundance of peace, it's about God's future Eternity. The wicked will no longer 'be'.

 

[jiggyfly]

It's because Rev.14 is giving an 'expression' for the wicked having perished, gone.

Ps 37:9-11
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
(KJV)

Since that is speaking of the time when the meek shall inherit the earth, along with that abundance of peace, it's about God's future Eternity. The wicked will no longer 'be'.

So do you believe in the annihilation or the endless torment of the wicked???

 

[logabe]

If you are disappointed in the truth, I cannot help that. I am ecstatic about the truth, that God has made it known to me that He loves me and that He came in the flesh and laid down His own life for me so that when I place my faith and trust in Him, repenting of my sin, I will become His child and will receive my reward of an eternal home with Him. My sin is wiped away. Those who reject Him will retain their sin and are not His sons and daughters, but the sons and daughters of the devil.

1 John 3:1-10
[sup]1[/sup] See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. [sup]2[/sup] Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. [sup]3[/sup] And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure.
[sup]4[/sup] Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. [sup]5[/sup] And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. [sup]6[/sup] Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
[sup]7[/sup] Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. [sup]8[/sup] But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. [sup]9[/sup] Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. [sup]10[/sup] So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

Jesus said (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:1, 8) that the Father had sent Him to open the
prison doors and set the captives free. He was, of course, referring to the Year
of Jubilee, for Christ IS the Jubilee. In Him is freedom, and life, and restoration.
Psalm 102:19, 20,

19 For he hath looked down from the height of his
sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the
earth;
20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose
those that are appointed to death.

He has seen the condition of humanity, and though we made our own debts and
got ourselves into the condition we're in, yet He has determined to come and
set us free and pay our debts. This was the purpose of His coming, and this is the
power of His resurrection.

This is the ministry of reconciliation that He has given to His body. In Isaiah 58:6
we read,

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose
the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens,
and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break
every yoke?

And notice the glorious promise in verse 12:

12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old
waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of
many generations; and thou shalt be called, the
repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell
in.

His plan is much larger than most of us realize. This work of this ministry is not
just to build a larger Sunday School, start a new denomination, or make an
old one richer. But it is to bring all of creation back into right relationship with
God, their Creator, and to restore man back to his former glory and power.

Yes, it is to blow the Trumpet of Jubilee, and to set all men free. For this
Trumpet of Jubilee is to be blown by the redeemed Body of Christ. This is the
work of the ministry for the saints of God, and the reason for their perfection
now (Ephesians 4:11-13). No angelic beings shall blow this trumpet or sound
the release of humanity from the bondage of corruption. This honor has been
given to the saints (Psalm 149:9). And all creation is waiting for and groaning
for the manifestation of this company of sons who shall sound the trumpet and
give them release (Romans 8:19).

God has a plan that will be implemented in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7). He
want save everyone in this Age of Pentecost but many will be saved in the Age
of Tabernacles which is upon us. After the Tabernacle Age, God will begin to deal
with the unbelievers.

So we need to ask ourselves what Age are we living in? The Pentecostal Age or
what some call the Grace Age. What Age was Paul in? I think we can all agree he
was in the Grace Age also. What's the point? The point is Paul said in the AGES to
come is where He will really show the "exceeding riches" of His Grace.

Brother, we haven't seen Grace yet. You wait until Jesus is finished with calling
the Overcomers out in this Age and that's when the fireworks will begin. Multitudes
will be experiencing the grace of God that will be poured out like heavy rain.

People will begin to understand the mystery (secret) of GOD'S WILL (Eph. 1:9) as
God begins to gather together in one (all things) in Christ (Eph. 1:10). It is where
God will destroy his enemies in blessing them by turning everyone of them from his
iniquities (Acts 3:26). The wicked one that has them in bondage will be burned up
by the Word of God and they will be set free from their carnal minds by the teaching
provided by the manifested Sons of God.

Abraham's Promise will be in full force and all the families of the earth shall be
blessed by the Overcomer's teaching them the ways of God. Eye has not seen, nor
has it entered into the heart of man, the things that the Lord has promised to them
that Love Him (1st Corth. 2:9).

Most people think that it is over for the ones that didn't accept Jesus when they
lived their allotted time upon this earth. I have good news! Your love ones that didn't
apply his/herself to the things of God will be given a second opportunity to do so and
they will accept the Supreme Sacrifice @ the Great White Throne (Isa. 45:23).

I finish with this (1st Corth. 15:22),

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be
made alive.


Logabe

 

[Lively Stone]

Of course, this is your dynamo:

I finish with this (1st Corth. 15:22),

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be
made alive.

But it is a complete misinterpretation of a very simple statement, all for your own ends---a false doctrine of men.

1 Corinthians 15:22
Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[logabe]

Of course, this is your dynamo:



But it is a complete misinterpretation of a very simple statement, all for your own ends---a false doctrine of men.

1 Corinthians 15:22
Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

LS... did you ask to be in Adam? No... you had no choice... did you? God put you in Adam and now God has
put you in Christ.

Didn't you know... no man can come to God on his own... he has to to drawn by the Spirit. We can not take
credit for what God is doing. In the appointed time, God will bring his enemies into Christ whether we like it
or not. Jonah didn't want the unbelievers to come into the Kingdom either but did that stop God from saving
them? Nope... guess what... if we don't believe that God will save them... it still want stop God from doing it.

You need to accept that you have a much greater God than what you think.

Logabe

 

[Lively Stone]

LS... did you ask to be in Adam? No... you had no choice... did you? God put you in Adam and now God has
put you in Christ.

Didn't you know... no man can come to God on his own... he has to to drawn by the Spirit. We can not take
credit for what God is doing. In the appointed time, God will bring his enemies into Christ whether we like it
or not. Jonah didn't want the unbelievers to come into the Kingdom either but did that stop God from saving
them? Nope... guess what... if we don't believe that God will save them... it still want stop God from doing it.

You need to accept you have a much greater God than what you think.

Logabe

God has since the time of Christ has been bringing His enemies to Christ. Some won't come. Once one dies, his final destination is set. When one dies without receiving salvation, he dies outside of Christ and will be rewarded the reward due those who reject Christ---damnation. That is the part of the Gospel message that many dangerously omit.

I am in Christ because I heard His call and responded willingly to Jesus Christ.

You need to know that God is a just God and does what he says He will do.

 

[jiggyfly]

You need to know that God is a just God and does what he says He will do.

Didn't God say He was reconciling all things to Himself?

 

[Lively Stone]

Colossians 1:18-20

J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

Who Christ is, and what he has done

[sup]15-20[/sup] Now Christ is the visible expression of the invisible God. He existed before creation began, for it was through him that every thing was made, whether spiritual or material, seen or unseen. Through him, and for him, also, were created power and dominion, ownership and authority. In fact, every single thing was created through, and for him. He is both the first principle and the upholding principle of the whole scheme of creation. And now he is the head of the body which is composed of all Christian people. Life from nothing began through him, and life from the dead began through him, and he is, therefore, justly called the Lord of all. It was in him that the full nature of God chose to live, and through him God planned to reconcile in his own person, as it were, everything on earth and everything in Heaven by virtue of the sacrifice of the cross.


Reconciliation is God's plan for all, but only through Jesus Christ. Those who deny Christ will not be reconciled, but reckoned with---also as part of God's plan of reconciliation. Wickedness will be disposed of and confined forever away from His Kingdom of righteousness.

 

[justaname]

I don't have much time now, but I tend to believe as Lively Stone here. Truly I want to be delivered from evil, and truly I love God, and without a doubt I fear Him. We know this coincides with Jesus by the gift of the "Our Father" prayer. God is a just and holy Savior.
If you remember from the Jonah story, the Ninevites repented, thereby they received God's mercy. Later God did destroy them because they fell back into there old ways and showed their true unrepentant hearts.

The prophets preached repentance, or at least adherence to the Law. John shouted repentance. Jesus exemplified repentance. The apostles taught repentance. The church stresses repentance. Why?
Revelation 20:15 Romans 6:23

Yes all things will be reconciled to God, and part of that reconciliation will be the eternal destruction of evil, wickedness, and all things God hates. All paths lead back to God, yet not all give you access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

One other thing I think notable. When the devil is cast into the lake of fire, the false prophet and antichrist are there still. Revelation 20:10
This is 1,000 years after they were thrown in, and they were not consumed. The text reads they will be tormented day and night without end. Now this is a horrifying thought for non believers, and it should be for believers also. And like it or not, this is part of the reason for spreading the gospel, so the warning may go out. This is why we should not exclude this part of our testimony of truth.
Matthew 10:28 Luke 12:4

If now, by your boasting, you believe you could have come up with a better plan, I say by all means go ahead and forge your path. As for me and my family, we will stick with God's plan of salvation. And if it is that I am proven wrong, God is only the more glorified, and my joy will be greater yet. This is the true confession of an x-universalist. Glory be to God and His just and righteous ways.
The cries of the righteous will be heard.
Psalm 35:1-28

Verse 6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the Lord persecute them.

This, I believe is why we do not repay evil for evil. This is why we are to love our enemies. This is why we turn the other cheek. In this we show God's love: vengeance is the Lords.
Romans 12:19 Hebrews 10:30 Leviticus 19:18

 

[veteran]

So do you believe in the annihilation or the endless torment of the wicked???

I believe like the Psalms 37 Scripture says, the wicked will perish and be gone, no longer be. The Greek word (apollumi) for perish and perdition used in New Testament means full destruction. It's also one of Satan's titles because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire...


Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)

Of course, this is your dynamo:

But it is a complete misinterpretation of a very simple statement, all for your own ends---a false doctrine of men.

1 Corinthians 15:22
Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.

1 Cor.15:22 has to be weighed according to the resurrection subject Paul was preaching there, and we know there's also a resurrection of the wicked at Christ's coming called the "resurrection of damnation"...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


1 Cor 15:21-26
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The Greek for "in Christ" can also mean 'by or through' (Greek en). The first phrase "For as in Adam all die" points to death assigned to all men, not just to the family of Adam. So that should be one easy clue.


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign, till he hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
(KJV)

That's about the resurrected wicked existing for Christ's future Millennial reign put under His rod of iron. The Father is excepted in that period of reign by The Son. That's when Christ will put all His enemies under His feet. That's why all will be made alive by Christ Jesus for that time, the wicked being resurrected also, but unto a state of 'damnation' and still under judgement of perishing later at the second death.

 

[Lively Stone]

I don't have much time now, but I tend to believe as Lively Stone here. Truly I want to be delivered from evil, and truly I love God, and without a doubt I fear Him. We know this coincides with Jesus by the gift of the "Our Father" prayer. God is a just and holy Savior.
If you remember from the Jonah story, the Ninevites repented, thereby they received God's mercy. Later God did destroy them because they fell back into there old ways and showed their true unrepentant hearts.

The prophets preached repentance, or at least adherence to the Law. John shouted repentance. Jesus exemplified repentance. The apostles taught repentance. The church stresses repentance. Why?
Revelation 20:15 Romans 6:23

Yes all things will be reconciled to God, and part of that reconciliation will be the eternal destruction of evil, wickedness, and all things God hates. All paths lead back to God, yet not all give you access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

One other thing I think notable. When the devil is cast into the lake of fire, the false prophet and antichrist are there still. Revelation 20:10
This is 1,000 years after they were thrown in, and they were not consumed. The text reads they will be tormented day and night without end. Now this is a horrifying thought for non believers, and it should be for believers also. And like it or not, this is part of the reason for spreading the gospel, so the warning may go out. This is why we should not exclude this part of our testimony of truth.
Matthew 10:28 Luke 12:4

If now, by your boasting, you believe you could have come up with a better plan, I say by all means go ahead and forge your path. As for me and my family, we will stick with God's plan of salvation. And if it is that I am proven wrong, God is only the more glorified, and my joy will be greater yet. This is the true confession of an x-universalist. Glory be to God and His just and righteous ways.
The cries of the righteous will be heard.
Psalm 35:1-28

Verse 6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the Lord persecute them.

This, I believe is why we do not repay evil for evil. This is why we are to love our enemies. This is why we turn the other cheek. In this we show God's love: vengeance is the Lords.
Romans 12:19 Hebrews 10:30 Leviticus 19:18

 

[jiggyfly]

Colossians 1:18-20

J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

Who Christ is, and what he has done

[sup]15-20[/sup] Now Christ is the visible expression of the invisible God. He existed before creation began, for it was through him that every thing was made, whether spiritual or material, seen or unseen. Through him, and for him, also, were created power and dominion, ownership and authority. In fact, every single thing was created through, and for him. He is both the first principle and the upholding principle of the whole scheme of creation. And now he is the head of the body which is composed of all Christian people. Life from nothing began through him, and life from the dead began through him, and he is, therefore, justly called the Lord of all. It was in him that the full nature of God chose to live, and through him God planned to reconcile in his own person, as it were, everything on earth and everything in Heaven by virtue of the sacrifice of the cross.


Reconciliation is God's plan for all, but only through Jesus Christ. Those who deny Christ will not be reconciled, but reckoned with---also as part of God's plan of reconciliation. Wickedness will be disposed of and confined forever away from His Kingdom of righteousness.

So do you agree with Phillips translation? Have you checked it against the actual text it is trying to translate? This is not in line with the any of the Greek texts that I have seen.

So you believe that God's plan for all fails for many eh? We obviously don't share the same opinion about God, I believe He is sovereign and accomplishes His will and fulfills His plan towards all, that He will eventually be All and in All just as the scriptures declare.

I don't have much time now, but I tend to believe as Lively Stone here. Truly I want to be delivered from evil, and truly I love God, and without a doubt I fear Him. We know this coincides with Jesus by the gift of the "Our Father" prayer. God is a just and holy Savior.
If you remember from the Jonah story, the Ninevites repented, thereby they received God's mercy. Later God did destroy them because they fell back into there old ways and showed their true unrepentant hearts.

The prophets preached repentance, or at least adherence to the Law. John shouted repentance. Jesus exemplified repentance. The apostles taught repentance. The church stresses repentance. Why?
Revelation 20:15 Romans 6:23

Yes all things will be reconciled to God, and part of that reconciliation will be the eternal destruction of evil, wickedness, and all things God hates. All paths lead back to God, yet not all give you access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

One other thing I think notable. When the devil is cast into the lake of fire, the false prophet and antichrist are there still. Revelation 20:10
This is 1,000 years after they were thrown in, and they were not consumed. The text reads they will be tormented day and night without end. Now this is a horrifying thought for non believers, and it should be for believers also. And like it or not, this is part of the reason for spreading the gospel, so the warning may go out. This is why we should not exclude this part of our testimony of truth.
Matthew 10:28 Luke 12:4

If now, by your boasting, you believe you could have come up with a better plan, I say by all means go ahead and forge your path. As for me and my family, we will stick with God's plan of salvation. And if it is that I am proven wrong, God is only the more glorified, and my joy will be greater yet. This is the true confession of an x-universalist. Glory be to God and His just and righteous ways.
The cries of the righteous will be heard.
Psalm 35:1-28

Verse 6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the Lord persecute them.

This, I believe is why we do not repay evil for evil. This is why we are to love our enemies. This is why we turn the other cheek. In this we show God's love: vengeance is the Lords.
Romans 12:19 Hebrews 10:30 Leviticus 19:18

Do you believe Jesus was speaking the truth when He said when we love our enemies that we will be acting like our Father in Heaven who is kind to the unthankful and wicked?

 

[Lively Stone]

So do you agree with Phillips translation? Have you checked it against the actual text it is trying to translate? This is not in line with the any of the Greek texts that I have seen.

So you believe that God's plan for all fails for many eh? We obviously don't share the same opinion about God, I believe He is sovereign and accomplishes His will and fulfills His plan towards all, that He will eventually be All and in All just as the scriptures declare.

God's plan has never failed, nor will it. He has given fair warning that those who reject His plan will not see God. God is sovereign, yet He has given every man his own sovereign will---made in His image, remember? Sinners receive their just recompense---condemnation. either Jesus is our personal Saviour and Lord or He isn't. It is our decision to make. We are urged by God to choose life, not death. The price for that was supreme---a painful and shameful death on the cross, all our sin and disease a heavy burden on Jesus Christ. To reject Him and still receive a glorious reward is not what God is offering, and that is not the Gospel.

 

[jiggyfly]

I believe like the Psalms 37 Scripture says, the wicked will perish and be gone, no longer be. The Greek word (apollumi) for perish and perdition used in New Testament means full destruction. It's also one of Satan's titles because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire...

Thanks for expressing your belief Veteran and I must say that annihilation is much more in line with the scriptures than endless torment which is a hugh contradiction to scripture. LS seems to have passed over my question to her.

God's plan has never failed, nor will it. He has given fair warning that those who reject His plan will not see God. God is sovereign, yet He has given every man his own sovereign will---made in His image, remember? Sinners receive their just recompense---condemnation. either Jesus is our personal Saviour and Lord or He isn't. It is our decision to make. We are urged by God to choose life, not death. The price for that was supreme---a painful and shameful death on the cross, all our sin and disease a heavy burden on Jesus Christ. To reject Him and still receive a glorious reward is not what God is offering, and that is not the Gospel.

Then you must ignore or misunderstand hundreds of scriptures to think that it is God's plan to only save and reconcile some and not all. Seems you just can't bear what the scriptures clearly state without dismissing their clear and simple expression concerning God's plan to reconcile, restore, save, draw all things to Himself through Christ until He is all and in All. But then I am really not surprised.

 

[Lively Stone]

John 3:36
[sup]36[/sup] And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”


Seems that universalism tends to reject God as the just judge, denying that He will reckon all things once and for all---both righteousness and evil. Reconciliation means justice and final settlement of everything and everyone. It doesn't mean a free pass to the Kingdom for the enemies of God. That would make God a perverse judge.

Paul says that God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4 – NKJV).
According to the Universalists, these words mean that God will save all men and nobody will perish. However, that’s not the true meaning of these words, because if it were so then all those Bible verses which affirm that not all men will be saved would be nullified.

For instance, Jesus said that on that day those on His left hand “will go away into everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46 – NKJV); He said that at the end of this age “the Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:41-42); He said that “broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it” (Matthew 7:13 – NKJV); one day one asked Him: “Lord, are there few who are saved?” and He said: “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:24 – NKJV); and the apostle Paul said that the Lord Jesus “shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power” (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9).

As you can see, neither Jesus nor Paul said that all men will be saved, but they said in different ways, yet very clearly, that many will not enter into the kingdom of God but will be punished with everlasting destruction.

 

[jiggyfly]

John 3:36
[sup]36[/sup] And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”


Seems that universalism tends to reject God as the just judge, denying that He will reckon all things once and for all---both righteousness and evil. Reconciliation means justice and final settlement of everything and everyone. It doesn't mean a free pass to the Kingdom for the enemies of God. That would make God a perverse judge.

Not at all, God is very just in the fact that His punishments fit the infraction. What do you suppose endless torment is the just punishment for? On the contrary, He already judged the sin of the world and His sentence fell on His Son at the cross of Christ. If He were to punish some for their sins it would mean that He was not satisfied and fully pleased with Christ's sacrifice. Read the scriptures carefully, lay down your religious paradigm, it's all there in black and white.

 

[Lively Stone]

Not at all, God is very just in the fact that His punishments fit the infraction. What do you suppose endless torment is the just punishment for? On the contrary, He already judged the sin of the world and His sentence fell on His Son at the cross of Christ. If He were to punish some for their sins it would mean that He was not satisfied and fully pleased with Christ's sacrifice. Read the scriptures carefully, lay down your religious paradigm, it's all there in black and white.

Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Without faith, one cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jesus paid it all, yet many will not accept that payment and will wind up paying for their sin themselves. It is like the generous rich man who walks into the fancy restaurant and plunks down a wad of cash that pays for everyone's meal in the place, but you refuse his generous gift, and insist on paying for your Chateaubriand yourself. Foolish? I'll say, but it is your choice.

Now that's black and white.



.


.
.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Without faith, one cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jesus paid it all, yet many will not accept that payment and will wind up paying for their sin themselves. It is like the generous rich man who walks into the fancy restaurant and plunks down a wad of cash that pays for everyone's meal in the place, but you refuse his generous gift, and insist on paying for your Chateaubriand yourself. Foolish? I'll say, but it is your choice.

Now that's black and white.



.


.
.

Yes I understand your opinion and understand why you fail to answer my questions.

 

[justaname]

So do you agree with Phillips translation? Have you checked it against the actual text it is trying to translate? This is not in line with the any of the Greek texts that I have seen. So you believe that God's plan for all fails for many eh? We obviously don't share the same opinion about God, I believe He is sovereign and accomplishes His will and fulfills His plan towards all, that He will eventually be All and in All just as the scriptures declare. Do you believe Jesus was speaking the truth when He said when we love our enemies that we will be acting like our Father in Heaven who is kind to the unthankful and wicked?

Matthew 5:44-45

“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,​

45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.​

This says something much different than what you paraphrased, although to answer your question with scripture.
Romans 5:8

John 14:6
No one can come to the Father except through Him.
John 10:9
This verse says "if" not when.

 

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Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Without faith, one cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jesus paid it all, yet many will not accept that payment and will wind up paying for their sin themselves. It is like the generous rich man who walks into the fancy restaurant and plunks down a wad of cash that pays for everyone's meal in the place, but you refuse his generous gift, and insist on paying for your Chateaubriand yourself. Foolish? I'll say, but it is your choice.

Now that's black and white.

Exactly my point LS... read (Isa. 45:23) and understand these people that
are confessing and bowing have FAITH in the true God. God swears that
these unbelievers will have FAITH that Jesus Christ is Lord.

These unbelievers have just become believers. WHY? Because God said
He swears they will accept Him and His Word will not return until all has
confessed and got on their knees in repentance.

Will the unbelievers go through Judgment? You bet they will and it will be
to bring Judgment unto Victory (Matthew 12:20). God's Judgment corrects
and gives us the ability to learn rightousness in the land (Isa. 26:9). He
destroys that old man (1st Adam) that is inside of everyone of us. Paul had
to die everyday and if we live for God we will have to die daily also.

Now let's get something straight right now, that man will be completely
destroyed when we put on our immortal bodies. The reason we struggle
with him today is because God has designed it this way to call out leaders
in His Kingdom that can Overcome him in this mortal state. God is looking
for Overcomers that will become obedient in this temporary weakness He
has put us in (Romans 8:20). If we already had our immortal bodies... we
would be perfect and there would be no need to learn obedience but that's
not the case yet.

The wicked that God will destroy is the carnal minds that are in Christians
and unbelievers alike. The reason people reject God is because of their
carnal minds they inherited from the 1st Adam. The difference between a
believer and an unbeliever is the believer has God on his side in the midst
of his troubles and the unbeliever has to struggle without God.

Will God destroy the wicked... you bet He Will... He's going to set them free.

What a God... what a Plan!


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