The Lake of Fire

[TruthSeeker2012]

HEALTH WARNING....If you value your sanity, do not debate truth seeker(sic). He is always right and you are always wrong and if you dispute that you will be called a false teacher or made to feel a second rate christian if one at all.

Thank you marksman for your personal attack upon me and for falsely accusing me, I am blessed Scripture says when that happens to me for sharing the truth that I do, Matthew 5.

This is part of his revenge on me by trying to turn others against me, trying to poison others minds against me and to use this strategy to sidestep my questions.

And I teach and preach and teach the gospel of justification and salvation by faith and grace alone! I teach that Jesus is God, Messiah, Lord, Savior, King, the Christ and only through 100% Jesus can salvation be found and that we can have assurance in Jesus Christ as long as we continue to trust in Him as Lord and Saviour, but marksman is accusing me of being a false teacher and trying to turn everyone against me with false accusations.

Ask yourself this question marksman... would the Holy Spirit encourage you to try to poison other people's minds against another person as you are trying to do towards me? Is that the fruit of the Holy Spirit or the fruit from another false spirit? Would a born again Christian go around different threads and attack a Christians character and trying to turn everyone against them, just because that Christian disagrees with some of the things you teach? What is your motive? God knows and I encourage you to repent of your hatred for me and come to Christ and be filled with love instead.

The reason marksman has stopped debating me is that his frightened off my questions.. and I will prove it again, by asking marksman to address these verses, but watch as he sidesteps again and instead personally attacks me and tries to turn everyone against me....Now back on topic..marksman..can you please address these verses and explain what they mean and contextualize them for me please:

This is what Bible says will happen to the lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25), Hebrews 2:14.

Thank you marksman, I would appreciate if you remain on topic and address those verses and leave the personal attacks out of it, and by the way, I love you and I hope you are well. And I have forgiven you for all the false accusations you have made towards me and for trying to turn everyone against me and for all the personal attacks upon me, I love you, I care for you and I pray for you. And may I remind you again, this is a debate thread, so please debate doctrine alone and please leave the personal attacks out of it. Thank you.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran, I asked this question to Rach in another thread, but I wanted to ask you the same questions as it's valid for this thread also. So can you please address these verses and explain what they mean and contextualize them for me please:

This is what Bible says will happen to the lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

How do you explain those verses?

Oh, I see those Scriptures about the wicked being destroyed literally how you do, and not as a conscious eternal burning in fire forever. The "lake of fire" of Rev.20:14 is a one-time EVENT to occur at the end of Christ's future Milennium reign. But that "lake of fire" event IS NOT... the abode of the wicked called "hell" in the KJV Bible. That's why Rev.20:14 reveals the abode of the wicked (hell) GOING INTO the "lake of fire."

Why do some have problems recognizing that as written there, with instead trying to declare the falsehood that the abode of the wicked called 'hell' is not a real place? It has to be a real place, simply in order to go into... that "lake of fire", as written.

And please address Hebrews 2:14 as well which talks about Satan being destroyed, can you please explain that verse also and contextualize it for me.

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)

Have those in Christ Jesus been 'delivered' from death yet today? Believers on Jesus Christ are still dying today, aren't they? And there's plenty of NT Scripture about a 'redemption' time for the future when Jesus returns, isn't there? Yes, and it agrees with what the Old Testament prophets were given to write of Christ's Salvation in final too.

So why try to treat the Heb.2:14 verse apart from the rest of God's Word, when the rest of God's Word must be considered in relation to that verse???

Christ's death and resurrection defeated the devil, in the spiritual sense for today already, but in the future Christ is going to literally destroy the devil prior to God's new heavens and a new earth manifesting.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Oh, I see those Scriptures about the wicked being destroyed literally how you do, and not as a conscious eternal burning in fire forever. The "lake of fire" of Rev.20:14 is a one-time EVENT to occur at the end of Christ's future Milennium reign. But that "lake of fire" event IS NOT... the abode of the wicked called "hell" in the KJV Bible. That's why Rev.20:14 reveals the abode of the wicked (hell) GOING INTO the "lake of fire."

Why do some have problems recognizing that as written there, with instead trying to declare the falsehood that the abode of the wicked called 'hell' is not a real place? It has to be a real place, simply in order to go into... that "lake of fire", as written.





Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)

Have those in Christ Jesus been 'delivered' from death yet today? Believers on Jesus Christ are still dying today, aren't they? And there's plenty of NT Scripture about a 'redemption' time for the future when Jesus returns, isn't there? Yes, and it agrees with what the Old Testament prophets were given to write of Christ's Salvation in final too.

So why try to treat the Heb.2:14 verse apart from the rest of God's Word, when the rest of God's Word must be considered in relation to that verse???

Christ's death and resurrection defeated the devil, in the spiritual sense for today already, but in the future Christ is going to literally destroy the devil prior to God's new heavens and a new earth manifesting.

I have a problem with "hell" because hell doesn't appear in the Hebrew or Koine Greek, and is an English word only and has different meaning to what Bible was teaching. That's why you see so many Bible Translations which don't even have the word "hell" in it, because the Scholars realise it causes misleading confusion.

As for your other question, the saved dead have indeed already been rescued, by having the Holy Spirit given to them inside. And the redeemed is a current present tense, not future tense. Read the Bible, it's clear about it.

And an interesting point to note is that Hades cannot be the place of hell-fire since the KJV clearly says that hell itself (Hades) will be cast in to the lake of fire! How can this be so? If Hades (hell in the KJV) is fire how can it be cast into itself? See Rev 20:14. The obvious meaning of the text is that "death and hell [the grave, the place of the dead] were cast into the lake of fire", that is all that is a reminder of sin will be exterminated!

And I actually harmonize Heb 2:14 with the rest of God's Word, and the Bible is clear, Satan and the lost will be destroyed in the lake of fire and once the lake of fire has done it's job, Jesus will recreate the Earth to become the eternal heaven.

Anyone who teaches that Satan and the lost will be given eternal life and immortality is teaching a false doctrine.

Now back to those verses that I quoted, were you admitting and acknowledging that those verses teach that the lost will indeed be destroyed? Yes or No? If no, then can you please go through all the verses individually and contextualize them one by one for me. Thank you veteran.

P.S Thank you for having a topic focused debate with me and not making personal attacks upon me, I appreciate it.

God bless.

 

[marksman]

Thank you marksman for your personal attack upon me

Your welcome. I always try to tell the truth.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Question for marksman:

How do you explain these following verses? Can you please explain what they mean and contextualize them for me please, one by one:

The lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

Does "death" ever mean "life" according to God and Scripture? Yes or No?

Thank you marksman.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

I have a problem with "hell" because hell doesn't appear in the Hebrew or Koine Greek, and is an English word only and has different meaning to what Bible was teaching. That's why you see so many Bible Translations which don't even have the word "hell" in it, because the Scholars realise it causes misleading confusion.

You're right, 'you' personally, appear to have a problem with the Biblical IDEA... of a heavenly abode for the wicked. Let's face it, that's what your real... problem appears to be about. Those studied in God's Word well know that the abode of the wicked called "hell" in the KJV is not the "lake of fire" of the future per Rev.20:14. But you seem to get confused about what the KJV word "hell" is pointing to. I understand the KJV translators used the word "hell" for different ideas, since 'geena' is really about the "lake of fire" event, and not about a heavenly abode of the wicked where the angels that sinned are kept in chains until the judgment (2 Pet.2:4).

As for your other question, the saved dead have indeed already been rescued, by having the Holy Spirit given to them inside. And the redeemed is a current present tense, not future tense. Read the Bible, it's clear about it.

I wasn't talking about only a spiritual redemption, I was talking about a future literal redemption by Christ, of our bodies, according to Romans 8:23, which most definitely IS... a future tense subject.

And an interesting point to note is that Hades cannot be the place of hell-fire since the KJV clearly says that hell itself (Hades) will be cast in to the lake of fire! How can this be so? If Hades (hell in the KJV) is fire how can it be cast into itself? See Rev 20:14. The obvious meaning of the text is that "death and hell [the grave, the place of the dead] were cast into the lake of fire", that is all that is a reminder of sin will be exterminated!

Hades is not the "lake of fire" event of Rev.20:14. The idea of 'hades' as a heavenly place is very real, not just some literal hole in the ground either. It's a heavenly prison for the wicked, the home of the rebellious angels Peter mentioned that are kept in chains until the judgment (2 Pet.2:4).

And I actually harmonize Heb 2:14 with the rest of God's Word, and the Bible is clear, Satan and the lost will be destroyed in the lake of fire and once the lake of fire has done it's job, Jesus will recreate the Earth to become the eternal heaven.

Anyone who teaches that Satan and the lost will be given eternal life and immortality is teaching a false doctrine.

I agree that Satan and the wicked will not be given eternal life, nor immortality, but will experience the "second death" of Rev.20. But those wicked will be 'resurrected' also. Problem is, many wrongly think that to be resurrected means automatic Salvation through Christ Jesus. It does for those of the "resurrection of life", but not for those of the "resurrection of damnation". John 5:28-29 declares this, as does Rev.20 also. The Hebrews 2:14 verse is about the "resurrection of life" through Christ in that verse's ultimate sense, and that resurrection event is still future for us.

Now back to those verses that I quoted, were you admitting and acknowledging that those verses teach that the lost will indeed be destroyed? Yes or No? If no, then can you please go through all the verses individually and contextualize them one by one for me. Thank you veteran.

I've already agreed to yes on that several times here, mainly per the Psalms. What I don't agree with though, is confusing the heavenly abode of the wicked with the lake of fire event, when God's Word reveals they are two separate things. Nor do I agree with those who think there is no literal place in the heavenly today where the wicked go after flesh death.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

You're right, 'you' personally, appear to have a problem with the Biblical IDEA... of a heavenly abode for the wicked. Let's face it, that's what your real... problem appears to be about. Those studied in God's Word well know that the abode of the wicked called "hell" in the KJV is not the "lake of fire" of the future per Rev.20:14. But you seem to get confused about what the KJV word "hell" is pointing to. ,,,

I completely disagree with most of your comments as they contain errenous assumptions about Bible which doesn't appear in Bible. What's causing your confusion and adding to what Bible really teaches is what's called eisegesis which has caused you to see things in Bible which are not there.

And can you please go through each of those verses I listed, one by one, and explain in your own belief what they are teaching and then also contextualize them please. Thank you veteran.

Here they are again:

The lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

God bless.

 

[veteran]

I completely disagree with most of your comments as they contain errenous assumptions about Bible which doesn't appear in Bible. What's causing your confusion and adding to what Bible really teaches is what's called eisegesis which has caused you to see things in Bible which are not there.

And can you please go through each of those verses I listed, one by one, and explain in your own belief what they are teaching and then also contextualize them please. Thank you veteran.

Here they are again:

The lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

God bless.

Those Scriptures you list have nothing to do with the heavenly abode of the wicked called "hell" in the KJV, the abode that Peter was speaking of...


2 Pet 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Greek tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(KJV)


What you show is, that you INTEND TO CREATE CONFUSION about that place, separate from the "lake of fire" event.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Those Scriptures you list have nothing to do with the heavenly abode of the wicked called "hell"...

Ok veteran that is your belief, but can you show me what these verses then are really teaching. Can you please go through each of these verses individually, and explain to me what they are teaching in proper context.

Romans 6:23 (Job 21:30) (Psalm 37:20) (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 (Psalm 37:38), (Psa 37:10) (Psalm 37:20), (Psalm 37:9), (Psalm 62:3), (Psalm 145:20), (Psalm 21:9) .(Oba 1 16), (Isa 41:11), (Psa 104:35), (Pro 10:25).

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Ok veteran that is your belief, but can you show me what these verses then are really teaching. Can you please go through each of these verses individually, and explain to me what they are teaching in proper context.

Romans 6:23 (Job 21:30) (Psalm 37:20) (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 (Psalm 37:38), (Psa 37:10) (Psalm 37:20), (Psalm 37:9), (Psalm 62:3), (Psalm 145:20), (Psalm 21:9) .(Oba 1 16), (Isa 41:11), (Psa 104:35), (Pro 10:25).

God bless.

No need to go through any of that since you refuse to heed the Rev.20:14 Scripture as written, which shows that "hell" is not the "lake of fire", and that hell is a place that's to go into that lake of fire.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

No need to go through any of that since you refuse to heed the Rev.20:14 Scripture as written, which shows that "hell" is not the "lake of fire", and that hell is a place that's to go into that lake of fire.

You can run and hide from those verses all you want veteran, but eventually you will need to face and accept those verses all of Scripture which contradicts your belief about an eternal hellfire. You were too frightened to address all those verses and all the other 180+ clear verses I wanted to go through with you that clearly teaches that the lost will cease to live and exist. I guess this debate is over then seeing you were not willing to debate all the 180+ verses I wanted to cover with you.

You should know better veteran that it's a big big mistake to build a whole doctrine around a single verse or only a few verses. That's why I wanted to cover ALL verses that talk the destination of the lost with you, but you were not willing, and instead you have run and hid from this.

If anyone is interested in my belief about the lost and if anyone wants a biblical explanation about "lake of fire" then please visit my webpage at:

http://www.biblejesu...l-hellfire.html

God bless.

 

[veteran]

You can run and hide from those verses all you want veteran, but eventually you will need to face and accept those verses all of Scripture which contradicts your belief about an eternal hellfire. You were too frightened to address all those verses and all the other 180+ clear verses I wanted to go through with you that clearly teaches that the lost will cease to live and exist. I guess this debate is over then seeing you were not willing to debate all the 180+ verses I wanted to cover with you.

You should know better veteran that it's a big big mistake to build a whole doctrine around a single verse or only a few verses. That's why I wanted to cover ALL verses that talk the destination of the lost with you, but you were not willing, and instead you have run and hid from this.

If anyone is interested in my belief about the lost and if anyone wants a biblical explanation about "lake of fire" then please visit my webpage at:

http://www.biblejesu...l-hellfire.html

God bless.

Now you bear false witness, because I have not denied any of the Scriptures.

But you do and have denied Scripture as written, specifically the Rev.20:14 verse that shows the abode called "hell" is a place that goes into the "lake of fire", revealing they are two separate objects.

Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(KJV)


What has happened is that you have been 'caught' preaching a lie.

And that lie is the false Jewish tradition that there is no such literal place as a heavenly abode for the wicked, which Apostle Peter specifically showed does exist per 2 Peter 2:4. So that's two specific Scriptures that you flat deny as written, showing the false agenda you've come here to preach!

Why would you be on that false Jewish agenda that there is no literal place for the wicked in the heavenly like Peter said? Because that's part of the Jewish mysticism taught within the Talmudic traditions of Jewish esotericism, i.e., the "Jews' religion" which Apostle Paul left after Christ Jesus converted him. Those false Jew teachings are not from God, they are from the devil and his servants, because they want this earthly existence ONLY to exist, and not God's Heavenly Abode which is NOT of this earthly existence! They only believe in a Salvation of 'this world', and not of the world to come under Christ Jesus!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Now you bear false witness, because I have not denied any of the Scriptures.

But you do and have denied Scripture as written, specifically the Rev.20:14 verse that shows the abode called "hell" is a place that goes into the "lake of fire", revealing they are two separate objects.

Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(KJV)


What has happened is that you have been 'caught' preaching a lie.

And that lie is the false Jewish tradition that there is no such literal place as a heavenly abode for the wicked, which Apostle Peter specifically showed does exist per 2 Peter 2:4. So that's two specific Scriptures that you flat deny as written, showing the false agenda you've come here to preach!

Why would you be on that false Jewish agenda that there is no literal place for the wicked in the heavenly like Peter said? Because that's part of the Jewish mysticism taught within the Talmudic traditions of Jewish esotericism, i.e., the "Jews' religion" which Apostle Paul left after Christ Jesus converted him. Those false Jew teachings are not from God, they are from the devil and his servants, because they want this earthly existence ONLY to exist, and not God's Heavenly Abode which is NOT of this earthly existence! They only believe in a Salvation of 'this world', and not of the world to come under Christ Jesus!

Your false accusations against me are just another sidestepping strategy you are using. You will do and say ANYTHING to avoid having to address all those verses that I quoted and you are too frightened to address them one by one because you realise those verses contradict your teachings and exposing your erroneous. doctrines.

I have already addressed and explained Rev 20:14, and then when it was your turn to address and explain the verses I posted, you run and hide and refused to do so.

But one day veteran,you will have to stop running and hiding from these verses and one day you must accept and address them.

My webpage explains very clearly, biblically, that there is no such thing as an eternal hellfire, and notice veteran has not been able to address or refute my webpage because he knows he cannot.

www.biblejesus.org/is-there-an-eternal-hellfire.html

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Your false accusations against me are just another sidestepping strategy you are using. You will do and say ANYTHING to avoid having to address all those verses that I quoted and you are too frightened to address them one by one because you realise those verses contradict your teachings and exposing your erroneous. doctrines.

You are telling lies, because the original section of Scriptures you asked me to go over were all about the same subject of the wicked being destroyed literally, and not burning eternally forever, which I agreed with!

But what I've caught you trying to do, is to confuse the Biblical term like "hell" for the "lake of fire", simply because you deny any existence of a heavenly abode for the wicked like Peter showed in 2 Peter 2:4. You doing that denial is direct proof of how your Jewish doctrines deny that Scripture as written.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

You are telling lies, because the original section of Scriptures you asked me to go over were all about the same subject of the wicked being destroyed literally, and not burning eternally forever, which I agreed with!

But what I've caught you trying to do, is to confuse the Biblical term like "hell" for the "lake of fire", simply because you deny any existence of a heavenly abode for the wicked like Peter showed in 2 Peter 2:4. You doing that denial is direct proof of how your Jewish doctrines deny that Scripture as written.

Wrong! You have falsely accused me again in this post and your comments are erroneous. Contrary, I have caught you out teaching a nonbiblical doctrine due to eisegesis. You have twisted Rev 20:14 + 2 Peter 2:4 and taking them completely out of context and building a complete doctrine out of it. Bad bad mistake veteran. Rev 20:14 does not support your false doctrine at all. And I strongly suggest you start studying the "second death" so you get a clear understanding what exactly it means. And TARTARUS occurs once in the NT, 2 Pet 2:4. But this verse does not mention any fire, nor that any humans are there or will go there. In fact it is a place of judgment in darkness; a place reserved for evil angels where they await the judgment.

There are about 182 clear verses for the destruction of the lost! Because man is mortal and because eternal life is given only to the redeemed, the unsaved forfeit their lives altogether! There is only one passage in the New Testament where fires are associated with Hades and that is in Luke 16:23. However, this passage is a Parable and so in itself cannot be regarded as doctrinally definitive.

So veteran, you have wrongly built a whole doctrine around a couple of verses which you have completely misunderstood anyway and taken out of context and then you have rejected over 180 clear verses that teach the lost will be destroyed.

In no way should those verses I posted before in the other post + all the other verses in Bible be misunderstood by one who honestly desires to know truth. There is a fire reserved for the wicked, but a fire so hot it will utterly destroy all who are engulfed by it. When the fire has done its work, it will go out. Eternally burning fire is not taught anywhere in the Bible--not even in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The English word eternal[ Greek "aionios"] DOES NOT always mean unending as I have shown!

So veteran, please, for your own sake, start to study the Bible before you make such erroneous comments.

God bless.

 

[Strat]

I have to wonder what the motivation is for people who try to deny what the bible plainly teaches,are they trying to comfort unrepentant people by telling them its ok they will just cease to exist ? are they trying to comfort people that their unsaved loved ones will not suffer after they die ? are they trying to comfort themselves because they are haunted by doubts about whether or not they will make it to heaven ? apart from these reasons what is the purpose of denying eternal punishment....perhaps they want people to think God is a nice guy...a little P.R for Jesus....

The original lie was that God realy didn't mean what he said...and the rest as they say is history....Jesus would not have wasted his time warning people that won't exist about a fate or circumstance that won't exist

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I have to wonder what the motivation is for people who try to deny what the bible plainly teaches,...

I actually ONLY believe what Bible teaches, and not in some unbiblical doctrine like hell.

I prove there is no eternal hellfire taught in Bible here:

http://www.biblejesus.org/is-there-an-eternal-hellfire.html

God bless.

 

[Strat]

What proof do you have of Heaven ? what reason is there to trust the lanquage used to describe it like "paradise" and what reason is there to trust words like "eternity" used to describe it's duration...surley you don't automatically beleive in Heaven because it's pleasant while not beleiving in Hell because it isn't.....that is the way the world thinks.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

What proof do you have of Heaven ? what reason is there to trust the lanquage used to describe it like "paradise" and what reason is there to trust words like "eternity" used to describe it's duration...surley you don't automatically beleive in Heaven because it's pleasant while not beleiving in Hell because it isn't.....that is the way the world thinks.

Faith because God's Word says so.

And that's why I reject eternal hellfire, because Bible doesn't teach it. And that's why so many current English translations have omitted hellfire and hell, and don't teach it because the Scholars realise that hell and hellfire is not taught in Bible.

Scholars are beginning to wake up to themselves, and realising that hell is not in Bible.The original "Authorized Version" of the King James Bible contained the word "Hell" 54 times from Genesis to Revelation. The New King James Bible contained the word "Hell" only 32 times and the American Standard and New American Standard (both revisions of the KJV) only 13 times. And the NIV OT doesn't contain the word hell even once!

And there are literally scores of Bible translations which do NOT contain the word "Hell" even ONCE! That's because they were written by Scholars who LOVE the truth and have EMBRACED the truth!

Jesus' Teaching on Hell by Samuel Dawson...most of what we believe about hell comes from Catholicism and ignorance of the Old Testament, not from the Bible. This study will cause you to re-examine current teaching on hell and urge you to further study on what happens to the wicked after death.

The word "Hell" is disappearing from the pages of English Bible translations and HAS already completely disappeared from many of them.

I used to believe in eternal hellfire for 33 years, but once I began studying the Bible in-depth, going back to the Hebrew and Koine Greek and comparing all English translations etc, I realised that the Bible doesn't teach eternal hellfire. The Bible does however, teach about a future lake of fire, but the Bible says it will burn out and stop after destroying completely the lost and Satan, and then Jesus will create a new Earth which will be the eternal Paradise.

God bless.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I have to wonder what the motivation is for people who try to deny what the bible plainly teaches,are they trying to comfort unrepentant people by telling them its ok they will just cease to exist ? are they trying to comfort people that their unsaved loved ones will not suffer after they die ? are they trying to comfort themselves because they are haunted by doubts about whether or not they will make it to heaven ? apart from these reasons what is the purpose of denying eternal punishment....perhaps they want people to think God is a nice guy...a little P.R for Jesus....

The original lie was that God realy didn't mean what he said...and the rest as they say is history....Jesus would not have wasted his time warning people that won't exist about a fate or circumstance that won't exist

I completely understand where you're coming from with this. Same with your most recent post in this thread, some good points. A couple years ago I thought the same thing. Infact, just a couple weeks ago I thought the same thing.

After I started reading and researching, there seems to be a different idea in the Bible than in the doctrine that I've heard all my life. At this point, there's more evidence IMO of the Lake of Fire being anihilation rather than eternal suffering. However, there is still a little proof which makes eternal suffering the truth also. I'm up in the air at this point, but very strongly leaning towards anihilation.

My problem at the moment is this, I can't tell whether I'm thinking critically about this or not. It's hard to tell because I like you, have held to the belief of eternal torment. It's what was taught to me all my life. As a result, I seem to be having conflicting emotions and ideas about this subject.

It's easy to stay with one idea, especially when it involves a closely held belief. Going against something you believe causes all sorts of inner turmoil.

Another thing, you mentioned about comforting unbelievers. Well, at first I thought that too. Because to me, the idea of no one being tormented feels great! I wondered about that too, because it seems no big deal. Although, if we look at our own short lives on this earth. I don't believe that one single one of us would say, "Meh, no big deal" if faced with our own deaths. If we are comforted it's because we believe in the truth of Jesus Christ and His promises. However, if we didn't have that promise, our death on this earth would be terrifying, even if you claim to believe in nothing. Those who are cast into the lake of fire, even if it's for anihiliation, will be terrified, and sad, and angry.

Think how you would feel right now, if you knew that moments from now, you were going to die by being set on fire.

BTW, I'm not trying to change your view, just sharing my thoughts.