The Lake of Fire

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God in His Word declares how He's going to destroy the wicked and they will be no more (Ps.37).

Is this one of those instances?

... it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44​

This verse entirely negates any rationalizations that the wicked do not suffer forever.

 

[Strat]

Is this one of those instances?

... it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44​

This verse entirely negates any rationalizations that the wicked do not suffer forever.

I don't know how but they will find a way to say that this verse does not mean what it says,my question which is still unanwered is what is accomplished by causing anyone to not beleive in eternal punishment...is this some kind of P.R campaign for God to improve his image to modern man ?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Is this one of those instances?

... it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44​

This verse entirely negates any rationalizations that the wicked do not suffer forever.

Think carefully what you are saying 'HeRoseFromTheDead..use your reasoning faculties. You have taken Mark 9:44 out of complete context, and you need to look at the Greek for the verse and think about this carefully... according to that ENGLISH translated verse, WORMS are given IMMORTALITY by God and given ETERNAL LIFE and will live forever for the English translation says, "the worm dieth not". Do you seriously believe WORMS will be living forever and given immortality?

Secondly, many places, over 50 times, in Bible it uses words like "never, forever, eternal" etc to things that already ended and burned out, e.g Unquenchable fires of Sodom and Gomorrah, but remember they burned OUT, even though the ENGLISH Bible says it was to burn forever.

Also another example, Read about the city of Edom in Isa 34:6-11 It says Edom was to burn forever and never be quenched, the smoke thereof shall go up for ever! But its NOT burning today, and the smoke is not going up forever as the English translation claimed, in fact in verse 11 it says it will be occupied again after this so called "forever" FIRE! The problem lies in English translations, and eternal and forever and ever, does not always mean endless in the Bible.

Thirdly, remember the word "hell" never appears in the Hebrew or Koine Greek Manuscripts.

Now listen very carefully to what I am about to say....Jesus taught that the fire of Gehenna could not be quenched or put out by anyone. Isaiah said "they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame." Isaiah 47:14. Unquenchable fire is fire that cannot be put out, but which goes out when it has turned everything to ashes. Jeremiah 17:27 says Jerusalem was to be destroyed with unquenchable fire, and in 2 Chronicles 36:19-21 the Bible says this fire burned the city "to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah" and left it desolate. Yet we know this fire went out, because Jerusalem is not burning today!

A lot of time "hell" is translated from the Greek word "Gehenna," which is another name for the Valley of Hinnom just outside the walls of Jerusalem. There the refuse and bodies of animals were cast into an eversmoldering fire to be consumed. What might escape the flames was constantly being destroyed by maggots or worms which fed on the dead bodies. Gehenna symbolized a place of total destruction. Nothing to do with an eternal hellfire place at all.

The flames and worms of Gehenna represented the total annihilation and obliteration of sin and the lost. With the fires of Gehenna burning before their eyes Jesus could not have spoken a more graphic word to the Pharisees to describe the final total destruction of sinners.

God bless.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't know how but they will find a way to say that this verse does not mean what it says,my question which is still unanwered is what is accomplished by causing anyone to not beleive in eternal punishment...is this some kind of P.R campaign for God to improve his image to modern man ?

A desperate carnal mind never ceases to try to justify itself. I don't have an answer for your questions.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

... I don't have an answer for your questions.

I didn't think you could or would answer my question, for if you did honestly answer, you realise your answer would contradict your earlier comments.

How anyone can use such a verse to support "eternal suffering" is beyond me, because if we were to use that verse to support such erroneous doctrine, then we would have to also have to accept and believe that God will resurrect and give WORMS immortality and eternal life so the WORMS shall never die. Dear oh dear.

And you refused to address the rest of my post too because you realise that I have shown many places where the English translations say something will be forever and eternal, but they have ENDED!

God bless.

 

[Strat]

I didn't think you could or would answer my question, for if you did honestly answer, you realise your answer would contradict your earlier comments.

How anyone can use such a verse to support "eternal suffering" is beyond me, because if we were to use that verse to support such erroneous doctrine, then we would have to also have to accept and believe that God will resurrect and give WORMS immortality and eternal life so the WORMS shall never die. Dear oh dear.

And you refused to address the rest of my post too because you realise that I have shown many places where the English translations say something will be forever and eternal, but they have ENDED!

God bless.

Ok i will ask you directly again...lets say that you acomplish the goal of doing away with the beleif in eternal punishment....you have accomplished what for beleivers ? and what for unbeleivers ? you have added or subtracted what from anything ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I didn't think you could or would answer my question,...

Are you that stupid and self-centered? I was addressing Strat.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Ok i will ask you directly again...lets say that you acomplish the goal of doing away with the belief in eternal punishment....you have accomplished what for beleivers ? and what for unbeleivers ? you have added or subtracted what from anything ?

I used to believe in eternal suffering, eternal hellfire for 33 years. That false doctrine kept me away from wanting to know God, because there was no way I could ever love a God who will take revenge on the lost for rejecting Him by throwing them into an eternal fire where they can never sleep and where there would be horrific and excruciating pain forever and ever and ever without end. That would be like seeing a person throw many people into a fire and stand back and watch them burn in agony and do nothing about it to stop their pain. Would you ever want to associate or know or be with a person like that?

But once I began studying the Bible for myself, going back to the original manuscripts, comparing different translations etc, I learned that God will destroy the lost and clean the universe and there will be NO MORE PAIN ever in the entire universe. When I learned these truths, I fell deeply in love with God.

This "eternal hellfire" lie has done a lot of damage to God and the truth, and made millions hate God and not want to be a believer in God.

But thank God He is not like that, and the day I learned that truth, it changed my day and I adore and love God with all my heart now.

God bless.

Are you that stupid and self-centered? I was addressing Strat.

Notice I was right, you still refused to address my post. And then you resorted to verbal abuse.

John 13:35 If you love one another, everyone will know you are my disciples."

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit the Holy Spirit produces is love, joy and peace. It is being patient, kind and good. It is being faithful and gentle and having control of oneself. There is no law against things of that kind.

Matthew 7:20 You can tell each tree by its fruit.

God bless.

 

[Strat]

I used to believe in eternal suffering, eternal hellfire for 33 years. That false doctrine kept me away from wanting to know God, because there was no way I could ever love a God who will take revenge on the lost for rejecting Him by throwing them into an eternal fire where they can never sleep and where there would be horrific and excruciating pain forever and ever and ever without end. That would be like seeing a person throw many people into a fire and stand back and watch them burn in agony and do nothing about it to stop their pain. Would you ever want to associate or know or be with a person like that?

But once I began studying the Bible for myself, going back to the original manuscripts, comparing different translations etc, I learned that God will destroy the lost and clean the universe and there will be NO MORE PAIN ever in the entire universe. When I learned these truths, I fell deeply in love with God.

This "eternal hellfire" lie has done a lot of damage to God and the truth, and made millions hate God and not want to be a believer in God.

But thank God He is not like that, and the day I learned that truth, it changed my day and I adore and love God with all my heart now.

God bless.



Notice I was right, you still refused to address my post. And then you resorted to verbal abuse.

John 13:35 If you love one another, everyone will know you are my disciples."

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit the Holy Spirit produces is love, joy and peace. It is being patient, kind and good. It is being faithful and gentle and having control of oneself. There is no law against things of that kind.

Matthew 7:20 You can tell each tree by its fruit.

God bless.

Again i ask you what is the point of it all ? there has to be some valid reason in favor of the the kingdom of God....what is it ?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Again i ask you what is the point of it all ? there has to be some valid reason in favor of the the kingdom of God....what is it ?

Eternal life in paradise with Jesus. Being lost means to cease to exist and not be given that. That's a good enough reason for me.

God bless.

 

[Strat]

Eternal life in paradise with Jesus. Being lost means to cease to exist and not be given that. That's a good enough reason for me.

God bless.

Eternal punishment means the same thing,again there is no logic to your pursuit and reinvention of the wheel.

 

[Rach1370]

You're jumping the gun Rach. Justinian was giving a hypothetical example of how he'd feel if eternal burning forever and forever in the lake of fire were true.

No, he was giving an 'either, or' statement. He said that if he found that God truly did punish people forever, he would hate God...so 'either' God allowed people to go without 'just' punishment, 'or' Justinian would hate God. To me, that's a little like a child going 'if mum or dad find out that I disobeyed them and punish me, I'll hate them forever'. Which is kinda ridiculous when you consider the the child has been disobedient, and the parents are within their rights to punish. The child is demanding rights to act out in rebellion and then get away with it scott free, and if they don't, hate the people who call them on it.
I'm not making a call on the nature of hell or punishment. The only point I'm trying to make is the very point found in Romans 9. That God is God, and He has the right to make any decision He wants, in regards to anything.
So, what if Justinian dies and stands before God and does in fact find that punishment is eternal, that it is, in fact, horrible. Do you really think, as he stands there in the presence of a holy God, that he will say 'no, that is not fair, I will hate you for this?' No, that is ridiculous. In fact what we know from scripture, whenever any man was in the presence of God...even those who were more godly than you or I, they fell to the ground and moaned, 'woe is me'. I think that once we are truly in the presence of God we will understand much better what sin is, and what a horrible assault it is on a holy God. At the very least we won't be making foolish statements like we have the right to judge God's actions.

 

[us2are1]

What happens to the damned?

They are cast into "outer darkness". "Non existence", No consciousness" "Death. Separated from life and not remembered for eternity.

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

3 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Eternal punishment means the same thing,again there is no logic to your pursuit and reinvention of the wheel.

Eternal punishment, without the ability for remorse or change of behaviour, is the most evil and vicious act anyone or God could ever do. Satan would do it I believe, but my God never would and the Bible is clear that He will not do it.

I prove it, using Bible alone, here:

http://www.biblejesus.org/is-there-an-eternal-hellfire.html

If you believe my webpage is in error, then I welcome you to address each and every point I make on the page.

God bless.

They are cast into "outer darkness". "Non existence", No consciousness" "Death. Separated from life and not remembered for eternity.

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

3 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I find it interesting how some people say that "outer darkness" is a hellfire. Believe me, there is no "outer darkness" in a huge fire. Secondly, I find it amazing how some people teach that death is not really death, but eternal life in a fire. Don't forget, Satan said the same thing...he said, "you shall surely never die".

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Well i should have known that here on this "Christian" it wouldn't take long for somebody to have a hissy fit because i disagreed with them....like i said why does any of this matter to those who are saved ? and what benefit is it to the unsaved ? i suppose you can pick apart "saved" and "unsaved" as well and go off in a thousand different definitions and interpretations of that,nit picking over every detail...gfast forward to judgement day...one damned soul says to the other " don't worry,thanks to all those sharp cookies in Christianity who figured out what God reeeeeally meant when he put all that stuff in the Bible it will be over quick" I see that you are one of those who thinks the Bible contradicts itself,sin isn't sin,eternity isn't eternity,with Heaven being the exception of course, and fire isn't fire....whats next....fire doesn't burn

Why does it matter whether there's a literal place in the heavenly where the wicked dead go? You've got to be kidding.

Warning the unbeliever about that place, and the final destruction in the lake of fire is one of the Biblical ideas we're supposed be preaching, including to Christ's congregation of believers as a reminder. Christ taught it, and so did His Apostles. And so does most every Church I've been in.

But I guess even some would rather not think of that place or even hear about it because it might cause them fear. Just like in the days of Isaiah, they want 'smooth things' preached in their ears, and not God's actual Truth which contains many warnings.

 

[Foreigner]

I would like to add couple of minor observations.

First, I worked as a Russian Interpreter for several years in the US Military.
To learn the language to the point where I could translate technical documents and do interpretation betweeen a native Russian speaker and an American with zero knowledge of the Russian language, involved studying the language 6 hours a day, five days a week with 2-3 hours homework a night for a year.

What do I bring this up? Because one of the things I learned is that words can indeed have more than one meaning.
And you do indeed have to be careful in how you choose to accept the translation when those words are not in your native tongue.

But what I also learned is that the correct translation/meaning of a specific word - even in poorly translated documents - could often be identified when read in the context in which that word was being used. Meaning, what the user what trying to convey, regardless of how it was recorded or translated.

The other thing I would mention (from experience) is that it is unwise to unfailingly, unflinchingly put total faith in the translation of a small group of words if context and historic usage indicates a different meaning.


Jesus spoke more about the dangers of hell than the pleasures of heaven.

And he spoke about it in such graphic terms that it is difficult to imagine that he wasn't talking about the true eternal damnation that the amateur Greek linguists around here say simply doesn't exist.

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." - Matt 5:29-30

Now I may not be the brightest light in the lamp store, but I find it difficult to believe that "cast into hell" means an eternity of nothingness. Of non-existance.
Neither does that mean that there will be a period of "repentence and cleansing" and then a pat on the butt and a chance to join everyone else in Heaven.


And what of the fact that many of the same words used to describe how long hell would last were the same words used to describe how long heaven would last?

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:46 KJV

But what about Jesus' promise of everlasting life or His warning of eternal damnation?


Our Greek experts would have us believe that the very words that DON'T really mean 'forever' are the very words Jesus uses to describe our time in Heaven.

Does this mean our time in Heaven won't be forever, either?


Or to better cut to the chase;

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:15-16 KJV

These two seperate words, used in the span of two sentences - both describing the length of time we are to be with God in Heaven - are the same words used in other parts of scripture to describe the length of hell and damnation.




.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

....Warning the unbeliever about that place, and the final destruction in the lake of fire is one of the Biblical ideas we're supposed be preaching...

I 100% completely disagree! God wants people to come to Him out of LOVE and not FEAR!

The message I am preaching is the GOOD NEWS about God's love, and all who want to come to Him are welcomed, but I never lie to people and say that unless they come to God and unless they love God, God will punish them forever.

God bless.

...Jesus spoke more about the dangers of hell than the pleasures of heaven....
.

That is not true at all!!!! Jesus never ever spoke about hell. The word "hell" was not ever used by Jesus because Jesus spoke Aramaic and hell is not in the Aramaic vocabulary!

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump, but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

And for the record, the term "for ever, eternal, everlasting" as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See also Jonah 1:17). In Deuteronomy 23:3, this means "10 generations." In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22,28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the lost will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out.

The false teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism and insanity than any other invention of the Devil. It is slander upon the loving character of a tender, gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Is this one of those instances?

... it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44​

This verse entirely negates any rationalizations that the wicked do not suffer forever.

Yep! The manuscript word there is 'geena' (valley of Hinnom), put for the future "lake of fire" event of Rev.20.

Here's another example...

Rev 14:10-11
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(KJV)

The above case is about the "smoke" rising forever and ever, not their torment. The Pslams state the wicked will be consumed away. So do we have a contradiction within Scripture between those examples???

Isa 66:23-24
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against Me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
KJV

In my Greek Interlinear manuscripts, it shows the whole Mark 9:44 verse was added (all words are 9999, which means inserted). It does appear in enough Greek manuscripts to warrent being included in the Mark 9 Scripture. Look at how some of the other Bible versions translated it, and you'll see what I mean. Some translators rendered the 44 verse three times in the latter part of the Mark 9 chapter.

But notice the idea was first written in Isaiah 66 per the above. Back in Isaiah 65 God speaks of those who will be slaughtered, as they will leave their name for a curse unto His chosen.

Isa 65:12-15
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before Mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, My servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, My servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, My servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto My chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call His servants by another name:
(KJV)

Just like how Jesus used the idea of burning torment for the rich man of Luke 16 that was carried to hell after he died, that's along the same order of expression. It's the wailing and gnashing of teeth idea, which was about what place per our Lord Jesus? The "outer darkness" of Matt.8:12; Matt.22:13, and Matt.25:30. And remember, per Rev.20:14, the abode of the wicked called 'hell' is to go into the "lake of fire" in final.


Ps 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(KJV)

Ps 37:10-11
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
(KJV)


Ps 37:34-36
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
(KJV)

No, he was giving an 'either, or' statement. He said that if he found that God truly did punish people forever, he would hate God...so 'either' God allowed people to go without 'just' punishment, 'or' Justinian would hate God. To me, that's a little like a child going 'if mum or dad find out that I disobeyed them and punish me, I'll hate them forever'. Which is kinda ridiculous when you consider the the child has been disobedient, and the parents are within their rights to punish. The child is demanding rights to act out in rebellion and then get away with it scott free, and if they don't, hate the people who call them on it.
I'm not making a call on the nature of hell or punishment. The only point I'm trying to make is the very point found in Romans 9. That God is God, and He has the right to make any decision He wants, in regards to anything.
So, what if Justinian dies and stands before God and does in fact find that punishment is eternal, that it is, in fact, horrible. Do you really think, as he stands there in the presence of a holy God, that he will say 'no, that is not fair, I will hate you for this?' No, that is ridiculous. In fact what we know from scripture, whenever any man was in the presence of God...even those who were more godly than you or I, they fell to the ground and moaned, 'woe is me'. I think that once we are truly in the presence of God we will understand much better what sin is, and what a horrible assault it is on a holy God. At the very least we won't be making foolish statements like we have the right to judge God's actions.

You were wrong to take his statement the way you did and run with it. Ask him if he hates God.

I would like to add couple of minor observations.

First, I worked as a Russian Interpreter for several years in the US Military.
To learn the language to the point where I could translate technical documents and do interpretation betweeen a native Russian speaker and an American with zero knowledge of the Russian language, involved studying the language 6 hours a day, five days a week with 2-3 hours homework a night for a year.

What do I bring this up? Because one of the things I learned is that words can indeed have more than one meaning.
And you do indeed have to be careful in how you choose to accept the translation when those words are not in your native tongue.

But what I also learned is that the correct translation/meaning of a specific word - even in poorly translated documents - could often be identified when read in the context in which that word was being used. Meaning, what the user what trying to convey, regardless of how it was recorded or translated.

The other thing I would mention (from experience) is that it is unwise to unfailingly, unflinchingly put total faith in the translation of a small group of words if context and historic usage indicates a different meaning.


Jesus spoke more about the dangers of hell than the pleasures of heaven.

And he spoke about it in such graphic terms that it is difficult to imagine that he wasn't talking about the true eternal damnation that the amateur Greek linguists around here say simply doesn't exist.

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." - Matt 5:29-30

Now I may not be the brightest light in the lamp store, but I find it difficult to believe that "cast into hell" means an eternity of nothingness. Of non-existance.
Neither does that mean that there will be a period of "repentence and cleansing" and then a pat on the butt and a chance to join everyone else in Heaven.


And what of the fact that many of the same words used to describe how long hell would last were the same words used to describe how long heaven would last?

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:46 KJV

But what about Jesus' promise of everlasting life or His warning of eternal damnation?


Our Greek experts would have us believe that the very words that DON'T really mean 'forever' are the very words Jesus uses to describe our time in Heaven.

Does this mean our time in Heaven won't be forever, either?


Or to better cut to the chase;

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:15-16 KJV

These two seperate words, used in the span of two sentences - both describing the length of time we are to be with God in Heaven - are the same words used in other parts of scripture to describe the length of hell and damnation.

It's more simple than that even. The destruction of the wicked is about their being gone... forever and forever, eternally gone, no more:

Ps 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(KJV)

Ps 37:10-11
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
(KJV)


Ps 37:34-36
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
(KJV)

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Rev 14:10-11
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.....

veteran, I want to ask you to explain the city of Edom, and according to Bible what happened to Edom and how long was the burning and smoke?

Isaiah 34:6-10
6The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. 8For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. 9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

So tell me veteran, what happened to Edom and is it still burning today?

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

You were wrong to take his statement the way you did and run with it. Ask him if he hates God.

Let's look at what he said again:

I am a Christian and I will say that if I were standing before God as He told an atheist that he was going to burn for all eternity for 80 years of sin, I would hate God

He most certainly is making a judgement. He's said straight out that 'if' God made that call then he 'would' hate God. It's all wrapped up in the fact that he doesn't, at this point hate God, but only because he feels God will not make that call. He says the moment God makes a decision that doesn't line up with his view of fairness, He will hate his saviour and maker.
All I've said, is that even if God does make that call, as his children, it's not up to us to smack God on the wrist and say 'bad God'. Especially not when we are not judge, and when we ourselves are far from holy. Something of this magnitude needs to be left up to God, who is sovereign and is holy.
Think of it like this Veteran. If Jesus shows up and it's the end and not the millennium, are you going to tell Him He got it wrong, and hate Him for it? He's the boss, things go how He wants them to, and as His servants, recipients of His hard bought grace, we should never think we can tell him how he should run the show. Again, read Romans 9.
I have not accused Justinian of 'hating God'...I just said that the thought of judging God is not real smart. If it turns out that I have interpreted what he said incorrectly, then I will apologise...to him.